German Shorthair vs Irish "Red" Setter

[teej89]

Alright guys, I'm looking to add another pup to my pheasant arsenal of one. I currently have a flushing dog and he's amazing and a helluva retriever, he's 3.5yr old chocolate lab.

However I really want to add a pointer to the group to hunt them individually and, well, it's gonna be a tough task but I want to see if I can work them both together. In a picture perfect world I'd have the lab working close and the pointer further out then if he goes on point then have the lab to honor the point until the bird flushes.

Anywho I'm looking at pointers and I'm torn between a german shorthair and an Irish Setter, also heard them called Red Setters.

I'm looking for pros and cons of both, work-ability, attitude, drive, ease of training, also this dog will be a house and family dog and will be around little kids.

Also if you have pictures of either I'd love to see em!

Thanks!
T.J.

 

[Don Fischer]

I think with the Red Setter and GSP it's about 6 of one half dozen of the other. I've had a good number of GSP's and I love them. My Stormy is my first Red Setter so sample unit of one maybe but I also judged his parent's in a field trial and to say I was impressed would be an under statement. I got my Stormy based on what I saw his parent's do. My Stormy is no where near as soft as my E Setter's were and not as hard headed either. He was a pretty much seemingly self taught dog! My shorthairs were about the same. I think I have enough time left in this world for one more pup and trying to decide between a GSP and a Red Setter has pretty much torn me in two. Before Stormy came around there was nothing to think about, it would have been a GSP no question.

Find some adult dog's and go watch them do their thing. Don't go near a n AKC Irish. There are some Red's in AKC and the difference is instantly obvious, Amer Fl Red's much smaller, shorter hair smaller head, look like a bird dog. My worry is someone with a ed crossing out to an AKC Irish and messing up the dog's. I could get Stormy AKC registered but would require DNA testing. Irish Setter Club of America Had a fit years ago after they bought into the Red Setter being A Irish and them found out they would never be another Dual Ch because the Reds blew the Irish away in the field. Amer Fld doe register Red's as Irish but few owner's call them that, they are Red's and it is instantly obvious looking at the two.

There are show GSP's too and in the past the show dog's simply weren't much to brag about. That' changing these days and I see some nice hunting dog's in GSP's. I never had one from show blood but worked with one and watched a number of other's. A guy I know here in Oregon finished out his GPS as a dual Ch and looking at her would would have a hard time telling. Watch it run and you'd think it wouldn't show at all, to but down to business in it. Really nice dog.

With GSP's look a pedigree's. If in front of the dog's name it say's Ch, it's a show champion only. Fld ch is a field champion. I don't know where you live but I bet there's some AKC pointing dog test's fairly close. Go watch them. Should be GP's there and you can see for yourself. If you can find Amer Fld walking dog stake's you might find some Reds there. Red Setter's are the best kept secrete in the bird dog world! There is a Red Setter Field Trial Club of America and they have a web site. They also have a page on Facebook.

 

[fowladdict]

I don't have much of an opinion on either, since I've never owned a GSP or Setter (I have had Labs and currently a GWP). I do think setters might be the best looking pup I have ever seen! But, having done a fair amount of pheasant hunting, long-haired dogs will have everything stick to them in some of the areas I hunt. It doesn't necessarily have to be a deal breaker though.

 

[HighDesertSage]

I wouldn't want to deal with the coat on a setter.

 

[Chuck99]

I have had three GSP and right now I have a 14 month old male GSP. All my dogs have been smart and catch on very quickly to new training and hunting scenario. Full of energy and are great family dogs once they settle down. They can run all day if needed. Sometimes can be tough to get them to retrieve but that depends on the dog, 2 out 3 were good retrievers. Hope this help.

Charley

 

[bobbydean]

First dog when I was one; grew up with me. I am 65 and have dogs my entire live (currently 4 terriers) I have owned one Irish setter. Loved the dog, but he was the most overactive dog that I have ever owned. Family pet. WAS never trained as a bird dog. Might make a difference, but I would pass.

 

[teej89]

I think with the Red Setter and GSP it's about 6 of one half dozen of the other. I've had a good number of GSP's and I love them. My Stormy is my first Red Setter so sample unit of one maybe but I also judged his parent's in a field trial and to say I was impressed would be an under statement. I got my Stormy based on what I saw his parent's do. My Stormy is no where near as soft as my E Setter's were and not as hard headed either. He was a pretty much seemingly self taught dog! My shorthairs were about the same. I think I have enough time left in this world for one more pup and trying to decide between a GSP and a Red Setter has pretty much torn me in two. Before Stormy came around there was nothing to think about, it would have been a GSP no question.

Find some adult dog's and go watch them do their thing. Don't go near a n AKC Irish. There are some Red's in AKC and the difference is instantly obvious, Amer Fl Red's much smaller, shorter hair smaller head, look like a bird dog. My worry is someone with a ed crossing out to an AKC Irish and messing up the dog's. I could get Stormy AKC registered but would require DNA testing. Irish Setter Club of America Had a fit years ago after they bought into the Red Setter being A Irish and them found out they would never be another Dual Ch because the Reds blew the Irish away in the field. Amer Fld doe register Red's as Irish but few owner's call them that, they are Red's and it is instantly obvious looking at the two.

There are show GSP's too and in the past the show dog's simply weren't much to brag about. That' changing these days and I see some nice hunting dog's in GSP's. I never had one from show blood but worked with one and watched a number of other's. A guy I know here in Oregon finished out his GPS as a dual Ch and looking at her would would have a hard time telling. Watch it run and you'd think it wouldn't show at all, to but down to business in it. Really nice dog.

With GSP's look a pedigree's. If in front of the dog's name it say's Ch, it's a show champion only. Fld ch is a field champion. I don't know where you live but I bet there's some AKC pointing dog test's fairly close. Go watch them. Should be GP's there and you can see for yourself. If you can find Amer Fld walking dog stake's you might find some Reds there. Red Setter's are the best kept secrete in the bird dog world! There is a Red Setter Field Trial Club of America and they have a web site. They also have a page on Facebook.

Don seeing a the pictures of your pup on another thread is what made me consider a Red Setter, I love their looks! I'm going to look on entry express and see if there's any upcoming tests in my area, I bet all the spring events are over now tho.

Would you mind sharing your breeder for your Red? I'm not opposed to traveling.

 

[Don Fischer]

Don't know how much help this may be. I got Stormy based on his mom and dad when I judged them some years ago.

His sire is: Rubyz Ruffdup Robert. He goes back thru Celtic and Saturday Night, and River City dogs.

His mom is Red Delicious Breelie-2011 Region 9, I think it's region 9, Shooting dog of the year. Watching this dog run is a real treat!On the bottom she goe's back thru Saterday Night and River City blood. I'd give you win's but didn't feel I needed them when I got the pedigree, wish I had now.

You cannot pick up a Red like most other bird dog breed's. Lot of the other's everywhere. Red's mostly in the Midwest and scattered around lightly the rest of the country.

Bearcat is a big name in Red setter's they are in Seven Valley's, Pa.

Comeback is in Rose Hill, N.C.e kennel list at NRSFC.

Conneaut Creek in Kingsville, Ohio

Mid Night Kennel seem's to be in Pa, not sure where. No photo's of Red when the site opens up but their in the kennel list with the National red Setter Field Trial Club. You might want to visit there.

Silver Creek Setter's is in Berea, Kentucky

There's is a few more listed on the site but generally pretty far from you. The list may not be up to date right now either. I missed not opposed to traveling. A few nice looking Red in Wisconsin. One is at Berg Bros. Get on the site and look up breeding Females. They have a Red called Berg Bros Bridget. Stunning dog. I think they are gonna have a litter this fall from her and if I can swing it then, I want one. Open Our Setter's go to females and scroll down till you see her. Her and another and Berg Bros Katrina are both there. Katrina looks nice and I suspect just a bad photo of her.

There's a guy running NSTRA out here from Idaho running two Red's. Can't remember his name right off but he's been doing really well. I watched one run what I could over near Condon, Ore last year and looked like a nice dog from what I could see. He doesn't breed.

Keep in mind I had never heard of Red Setter's before watching Stormy's parent's run and at the end of the stake I got my name on the buyer list. About a year and a half later I got Stormy and other than that crooked tail, which seem's to be straighting out, he has surpassed all expectation's. Can't say enough about him!

This is his latest picture. He's watching the second bird in a plant of two fly away.

Watching the first fly away!

 

[Don Fischer]

I don't have much of an opinion on either, since I've never owned a GSP or Setter (I have had Labs and currently a GWP). I do think setters might be the best looking pup I have ever seen! But, having done a fair amount of pheasant hunting, long-haired dogs will have everything stick to them in some of the areas I hunt. It doesn't necessarily have to be a deal breaker though.

Stuff sticking to coats, yes and no. With my E Setter I did have to be careful where I put them down. I kept them shaved until hunting season opened and then let the hair grow till the following spring. Problem with their even more than so much is it is very soft. Hard to not get something to stick to it. With my red Setter He and both of his parents have quite a bit rougher coat and it does help resist things sticking to it. Stormy's cot get's bad behind his back legs, under neath and on his chest. I trim them with scissors so far but he's gonna get the clipper's before to much longer.

On the other hand the shorthair coat is slick and even if soft still shed's burrs ect! Te disadvantage with dog's like the lab is that dense under coat that helps in the cold water. You don't notice it till the spring when it get's shed. I've had three labs and every one did it. Need a front loader to clean up the hair every where. Hard to believe any dog could have that much under coat but then again that's why cold water doesn't bother them.

Don't think I put many photo's of shorthairs on here but for trial photo's. So, a couple trial photo's. I especially like these two dogs. This dog is a dual Ch I think. First time I saw her I was taking photo's on the All Age course and glanced at the Derby course and she was really turning on. I'll remember that sight till the day I die.

 

[jt13]

I've got a GSP sleeping on my couch as we speak so that gets my vote. A fantastic pup, low maintenance and so smart it's scary. Her coloration is similar to the one in Don Fischers photo. Those little white hairs are pretty visible when shed all over the house but it easily cleans up with a vacuum unlike longer haired breeds I've had. As far as pedigree goes, I am a believer that it means a LOT. She is the pup of two NAVHDA Prize 1 invitational parents and has been a natural from day one. And did I mention my girl was last pick in the litter?.... Good luck !

 

[vaversatile]

I've got a GSP sleeping on my couch as we speak so that gets my vote. A fantastic pup, low maintenance and so smart it's scary. Her coloration is similar to the one in Don Fischers photo. Those little white hairs are pretty visible when shed all over the house but it easily cleans up with a vacuum unlike longer haired breeds I've had. As far as pedigree goes, I am a believer that it means a LOT. She is the pup of two NAVHDA Prize 1 invitational parents and has been a natural from day one. And did I mention my girl was last pick in the litter?.... Good luck !

What's her obedience like and recall off leash?

 

[homestead]

I've got a GSP sleeping on my couch as we speak so that gets my vote. A fantastic pup, low maintenance and so smart it's scary. Her coloration is similar to the one in Don Fischers photo. Those little white hairs are pretty visible when shed all over the house but it easily cleans up with a vacuum unlike longer haired breeds I've had. As far as pedigree goes, I am a believer that it means a LOT. She is the pup of two NAVHDA Prize 1 invitational parents and has been a natural from day one. And did I mention my girl was last pick in the litter?.... Good luck !

What kennel is your pup from? I’m researching my next pup.

 

[jt13]

What kennel is your pup from? I’m researching my next pup.

Burkhart out of upstate NY

 

[brymoore]

I’ve never owned a Red Setter. I owned English Setters and GSPs. I have both sleeping in front of me now.

I like Setters for big open country. They can search ground effortlessly. GSPs I’ve hunted with them don’t have the gears to hunt at the same speed. I think setter noses are slightly better than GSPs. My setters don’t retrieve but some do. My setters run big but I don’t think Red setters would run as big.

My experience with GSPs are that they are easier dogs for first time owners of a pointer to handle. They are smart - smarter than my setters. My experience is if you show the dog what you want, they’ll figure it out. My current GSP is good for quail and pheasants. She hasn’t had as much big country hunting as my son takes her duck hunting, a lot. She taught herself to be a duck dog. GSPs are a little busy sometimes in the house. Setters are very easy going.

I like the looks of the Reds but I’d recommend GSP. You should be able to find a few local breeders. You can go see the dogs and probably get a field day. Most people have to travel to find a Red breeder.