FWP Commission to change Gardiner Elk hunting

[Gerald Martin]

Commissioner Tabor’s proposal.

(Amendment to Adjustments to 2022 Big Game Regulations for 2023 Season
Submitted by Vice Chair Tabor
Motion: I move the Fish and Wildlife Commission adopt the amendments to the license‐permit type quotas and quota ranges and hunting district legal descriptions as presented by the department in the coversheet and accompanying amendment sheet with the following amendment: Restore HD 313 to a general license five‐week general firearm season for Brow‐Tined Bull (BTB) elk.
Background: This comes about as I discussed in the August Commission meeting when the department disclosed that there are no longer biological concerns about elk populations in this district. That was a major reason for me proposing a decrease to the wolf quota for this district. The outfitting businesses like the rest of the businesses have been severely hurt due to the flooding. Several constituents reached out with this request, and it seems appropriate to restore opportunity back to the district.
FWP Response: This amendment would eliminate the 313‐45 Brow‐tined Bull Elk Permit during the last two weeks of the general firearm season and change the last two weeks of the general firearm season to allow a general elk license to be valid for Brow‐Tined Bull (BTB) elk. This would also have the effect of making the general elk license valid during the muzzleloader season for BTB elk as well. While potentially influencing the numbers and average age of bull elk in HD 313, the amendment will cause no biological harm to the elk population in HD 313.)

 

[TheJason]

Montana. Where it’s okay to piss pound the wildlife just because you can.

 

[Beignet]

If the stated reason for changing the season structure is to help outfitters who are negatively impacted by seasonal conditions then a change to benefit a VERY narrow segment of the public trust shareholders at the expense of the resource and the interests of other shareholders is a gross dereliction of the trustee duties of the commissioners.

These rules were implemented after public input at the request of a large segment of the public who were concerned about the over exploitation of bull elk in unit 313.

I’m going to paraphrase some of the above in my comments to the other commissioners if you don’t mind.

I’m kind of dumbfounded that Tabor even had the gall to sneak in such a disingenuous unit-specific proposal. If this goes through every outfitter in every unit is going to start calling in favors to alter the rules in their favor without much opportunity for public comment.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I’m going to paraphrase some of the above in my comments to the other commissioners if you don’t mind.

I’m kind of dumbfounded that Tabor even had the gall to sneak in such a disingenuous unit-specific proposal. If this goes through every outfitter in every unit is going to start calling in favors to alter the rules in their favor without much opportunity for public comment.

Tabor’s mountain lion proposal that passed was in exactly the same vein. This is just taking that “success” one step farther.

 

[Gerald Martin]

This is what happens when the highest ethic of someone entrusted with the well being of Montana’s wildlife is to treat it as an expendable commodity for the financial gain of those who exploit wildlife for profit.

If this passes, I want guaranteed NR general elk licenses distributed to building contractors. These rising interest rates are really dampening new home sales and I foresee tough financial times ahead for our industry.

I am a public trust shareholder. I want my place at the front of the line too.

 

[Beignet]

Tabor’s mountain lion proposal that passed was in exactly the same vein. This is just taking that “success” one step farther.

It really struck me at the season setting meeting in Helena when he said, sort of off the cuff, that “people have been waiting 16 years for this” in relation to more outfitter friendly rules now that MOGA had their men in the Governor’s and Director’s offices. They’re going to continue to try to squeeze everything they can in the short term without giving a damn about resource in the long run.

 

[Gerald Martin]

It really struck me at the season setting meeting in Helena when he said, sort of off the cuff, that “people have been waiting 16 years for this” in relation to more outfitter friendly rules now that MOGA had their men in the Governor’s and Director’s offices. They’re going to continue to try to squeeze everything they can in the short term without giving a damn about resource in the long run.

Why not? The resource is essentially unlimited as long as we say the objectives are exceeded and outfitters are the most deserving to have first dibs. And middle and last dibs.

It would be very refreshing to have a commissioner remind the outfitter lobby that they chose to have their business model that utilizes a public trust resource. The health of the resource is the highest priority and the success of their businesses are not the commission’s concern. If they can be profitable with an equal allocation of the resource as every other shareholder then kudos to them. If they can’t then they do not have a business model that is sustainable.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Similar "management" here made me drop out of moose hunting almost twenty years ago. I just couldn't be a part of the problem any longer.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

Those poor outfitters.
This is one weekend during the general season this year, before the special draw permit. It was a bloodbath down there this year. Can’t imagine if it was open to general the last 2 weeks on a year like this still.

He’d kill every bull that came out of the Park if you gave him a chance.

Not even a single 300” bull in that photo?

#shiftedbaseline

#thewolveskilledthemall

 

[TheTone]

Not even a single 300” bull in that photo?

#shiftedbaseline

#thewolveskilledthemall

His website is even worse. Can’t imagine paying the price they ask for the bulls they kill. It claims 130 elk clients a year, unreal!

 

[Straight Arrow]

In the midst of the banter about this issue, please pause to write comments to the Fish & Game Commission to persuade them to reject this terrible amendment.

Email to : [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],

 

[warmer]

This is what happens when the highest ethic of someone entrusted with the well being of Montana’s wildlife is to treat it as an expendable commodity for the financial gain of those who exploit wildlife for profit.

If this passes, I want guaranteed NR general elk licenses distributed to building contractors. These rising interest rates are really dampening new home sales and I foresee tough financial times ahead for our industry.

I am a public trust shareholder. I want my place at the front of the line too.

Will this include NR mechanical contractors? Not asking for anyone but myself.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Will this include NR mechanical contractors? Not asking for anyone but myself.

Of course. Not as many as for me but we’ll certainly get you some too.

 

[warmer]

Of course. Not as many as for me but we’ll certainly get you some too.

You General Contractors work hard for your's. Take what you need and send the extras my way. Thanks.

 

[Gerald Martin]

You General Contractors work hard for your's. Take what you need and send the extras my way. Thanks.

See, here’s a man who appreciates why some small segment of the public trust deserves a greater allocation of the resource than other members of the same public trust. You get it my friend. Let’s talk to Tabor and see what he’s able to do for us.

 

[Ben Lamb]

In the midst of the banter about this issue, please pause to write comments to the Fish & Game Commission to persuade them to reject this terrible amendment.

Email to : [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],

It's also important to sign up to speak via zoom if you can't make the meeting in person, or at a regional FWP headquarters. Comments are awesome, and I encourage everyone to write each commissioner, but being there is what will shift votes. We need to ensure good turnout in order to impress upon the commission that making substantive changes to the seasons after what transpired in getting these to begin with is a slap in the face to everyone who isn't benefiting from this change. The season setting process this year was one of the biggest mobilizations of the hunting community since the 2021 session. Thousands of Montanans made their choices clear, and the commission responded in kind. Now, 11th hour shenanigan's will set the tone for the session.

Does the administration want conflict or collaboration?

Fish And Wildlife Commision | Montana FWP

The Commission sets fish and wildlife regulations, approves property acquisitions, and approves certain rules and activities of the Fish, Wildlife & Parks Department as provided by statute.

fwp.mt.gov

 

[Beignet]

MOGA must've had a full on pledge drive to get their members to write in on behalf of the 313 expanded season.

Public Comment Results

 

[Big Fin]

MOGA must've had a full on pledge drive to get their members to write in on behalf of the 313 expanded season.

Public Comment Results

Where is the web link to get your comments into their general mailbox, rather than have to email the Commissioners? I can't find it on the website.

 

[Beignet]

Where is the web link to get your comments into their general mailbox, rather than have to email the Commissioners? I can't find it on the website.

I believe those comments were submitted in response to the general subject of "Adjustments to 2022 big game regulations for 2023 season" as opposed to after Tabor's amendment was introduced. Looks framed in such a way to appear as though all those requests for 313 season expansion were organically made by a concerned public. That is, until you start recognizing a lot of outfitter names or even those of their spouses.

Long story long, it doesn't appear that there's still an opportunity for general comment that will go on the public record now that Tabor's amendment has been added.

EDIT: Looks like any public record comments needed to be submitted by 11/18/22:

https://fwp.mt.gov/aboutfwp/commission/december-2022-meeting

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[Ben Lamb]

Public comment is still provided. Sign up, be respectful, make your case. If you plan on commenting online, you have to sign up for Zoom by noon on December 19th.