First-hand experiences of women hunters

[wytex]

I have been hunting since about 1970 and unless my memory fails me I have never ran into a woman hunting that wasn't with her dad or husband and I can count them on my hands.

I don't run in to many hunters in the field and maybe women are too smart to hunt where I hunt but they are very rare. I don't personally know a woman who has ever gutted a mammal solo. I hunt some with my daughter and she has told me that guys have asked her if she guts her own deer. I know for a fact that some of the guys that I know respect a woman who does it on her own and if they ask the wrong question it is not a diss.
Some women get pissed if you hold a door for them. I can't think of a guy being irritated by it.

Some guys are sexist jerks, no doubt. I wouldn't judge hunters by the actions of the guy behind the sporting goods counter though. That is like judging carpenters, plumbers, or electricians by the guy working at the hardware store.
When a guy tells me that he is building a house, one of the first things I want to know is if he is driving the nails. If he is pissed by that question, whatever, it is not meant as a diss.
Come to think of it, I don't know a woman who drove the nails on her own house either. That doesn't mean that they don't, and I have respect for those that do, but if they get pissed if I ask them the question, whatever. They just missed an opportunity to gain my admiration. I wouldn't ask the question unless I had a suspicion that they did.

If I run into one of you ladies out in the woods and offer to help you stand up with your heavy pack, I don't mean anything derogatory by it, hell, I would do the same for about 1 in 10 guys in the woods. The other 9 I would do my best to make sure they never saw me.

I hunted for years without my spouse due to work issue, just me and girl friend. Don't even know how many animals I have gutted.
First whitetail I took in Texas some local gals asked what I did after I shot it," gutted it" I said. What a surprised look I got.
I make my on decisions where I hunt and if I need help I ask, spouse does the same.

Come to Wyoming and you'll see women hunting alone and with female friends, not uncommon at all but I guess we have to be somewhat independent up here. Help may be miles and hours away. I betting is it that way all over the West.

 

[longbow51]

@longbow51 to might want to revisit the Orvis guarantee, it actually meant something once, not so much these days.

Cheers

Richard

From Orvis' website:
"100% customer satisfaction has been our commitment since 1856. It's who we are. If you aren't happy with a product or service, we want to know about it. And we'll make it right."

Like all companies, notably Bean's, they had to modify things a bit when the new generation started buying decades old Bean boots at yard sales and sending them in for new ones, then reselling the new ones. Orvis has repaired things for us though, and done so cheerfully as we don't like to throw things away; bad for the environment plus good stuff has memories. Likewise with Patagonia; a pack which went all over Europe and half the Caribbean has been repaired twice.

 

[MNElkNut]

I have purchased some Sitka for my daughter who really likes it. She has some Under Armor as well. She really likes a pair of the Under Armor pants, but I don't know which ones. She LOVES her Browning women's puffy coat.

I cringed when Huntingwife mentioned Redhead. If you are subjected to wearing Redhead on serious hunting trips, I feel for ya! I still use some Cabelas branded stuff (it is men's though!). They made some pretty good stuff. Girls with Guns is another company that makes women's hunting apparel, but I cannot comment on how good it is. We had an upland vest by GWG at our PF banquet and it looked pretty decent. Maybe we should make a list of all known companies that make quality women's hunting gear so it is easy to access? Here are the ones I know about:

Browning
Sitka
First Lite
Cabelas
Under Armor
Orvis
Filson
Nomad
SHE Outdoors
LL Bean
Eddie Bauer
Prois
DSG

 

[squirrel]

It's a nasty winter day and I'm trying to figure out writing, filing, editing, copying, printing, and captioning on Apple, and you folks become the guinea pigs.
But Doug?? you are forcing me to fly the Neanderthal flag at half staff. PITIFUL

Other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?

A story nobody wants to write?? Rubbish she has been sharpening her knives for this for a long time.

I think this is a poor example of writing that has some undeniably valid points within it, but they are in the minority.
First she drew her water from a poisoned well, she sought out women who were ready to blow their tops and offered them a soapbox to stand on. It is hardly surprising how it played out.

The overwhelming number of first person anecdotes have zero to do with gender, biased or otherwise.
The structure is flawed, she is making a case against generalisation and stereotypes, by using… you guessed it… generalisations and stereotypes (pale male and stale). (frat-boys club). Sexism is terrible but the one girl can “outshoot most MEN”???? A bit of editorial discretion could have fixed some glaring errors. “Don’t you mean you can outshoot most anybody?” “Why yes, that is what I meant to say…”

She (they) is/are in search of Goldilocks perfect porridge and it is subjective and can change as quickly as a woman can change her mind, which, of course, has never happened. One woman is pissed that guys pander to her, the next is pissed cause they did not pay enough attention to her. It’s a classic set up of a no win scenario, don’t look at them?? you are ignoring them, make eye contact and smile, you went WAY TOO FAR BUDDY. Speak to them and the guy she is with beats your ass for “hitting on my woman”. Threading this needle is impossible and the perfect behaviour today will be tomorrow’s faux paus.

It kinda reminds me of the “Simpson’s” episode when the waiter is grinding pepper onto the salad…. More, more, more, TOO MUCH! Take it back… At what level is the attention “perfect” and how in the hell would anyone (especially an oblivious male) know?

A couple of classic conundrums on gear jump out. Women want gear made for them ( a very valid point) but balk when it is handed to them by a man. I guess “shrink it and pink it” was not the panacea they had hoped for as a marketing strategy.

Yep lots of people in retail sales know nothing of “sales” and less about the opposite sex (this is a two way st.). But if I had a retail store selling outdoors stuff there is a treasure trove of marketing to be gleaned from between the lines on this article. Hire more women stands out as one.

And speaking of vitriol… social media is brutal??? Who knew? DUH! But I was surprised by the hatred shown of pretty girls by the girls, no less. Interesting how they brutalised those who were well dressed and pretty while obsessing over being, WELL DRESSED AND PRETTY. (not all of course, that would be stereotyping)

As a subset of this, and I should have known it, or at least not have been surprised by it… women are really, really, really, into clothes.
And something I did know and they should have known is that guys like pretty girls, yes even younger ones.

And, in closing commentary, HER closing on commentary. First thing that came to mind was if trapped in a remote camp with her I would chew my foot off in the middle of the night to run away.

But everything else was fine…

 

[MTTW]

I hunted for years without my spouse due to work issue, just me and girl friend. Don't even know how many animals I have gutted.
First whitetail I took in Texas some local gals asked what I did after I shot it," gutted it" I said. What a surprised look I got.
I make my on decisions where I hunt and if I need help I ask, spouse does the same.

Come to Wyoming and you'll see women hunting alone and with female friends, not uncommon at all but I guess we have to be somewhat independent up here. Help may be miles and hours away. I betting is it that way all over the West.

Thanks, you put me in my place and illustrated my point. Cheers.

 

[Europe]

I recently ask the weather Gods to give Harley some cold weather, so when he comes up for his Polar Bear hunt, the weather will not be a shock to him, and they obliged

I am sure you will take your wife with you when you go. And, she will need some warm clothes. May I suggest : Canadian Goose and/or Kevin,s !

These names could also be added to the female clothing line post

Panda, speaking of Kevin,s please alert your grandfather that they have some saddle ring rifles in. The 38 WCF and 25-35 looks interesting. Also they have a double 30-06 from SIAC what are the odds on that happening at this moment ?

In regards to this thread, and as stated before, I am continually impressed with the genuine kindness of the gentlemen on this forum.

Huntingwife: I am enjoying a glass of red wine, as I type.

 

[Hunting Wife]

I have been hunting since about 1970 and unless my memory fails me I have never ran into a woman hunting that wasn't with her dad or husband and I can count them on my hands.

I don't run in to many hunters in the field and maybe women are too smart to hunt where I hunt but they are very rare. I don't personally know a woman who has ever gutted a mammal solo. I hunt some with my daughter and she has told me that guys have asked her if she guts her own deer. I know for a fact that some of the guys that I know respect a woman who does it on her own and if they ask the wrong question it is not a diss.
Some women get pissed if you hold a door for them. I can't think of a guy being irritated by it.

Some guys are sexist jerks, no doubt. I wouldn't judge hunters by the actions of the guy behind the sporting goods counter though. That is like judging carpenters, plumbers, or electricians by the guy working at the hardware store.
When a guy tells me that he is building a house, one of the first things I want to know is if he is driving the nails. If he is pissed by that question, whatever, it is not meant as a diss.
Come to think of it, I don't know a woman who drove the nails on her own house either. That doesn't mean that they don't, and I have respect for those that do, but if they get pissed if I ask them the question, whatever. They just missed an opportunity to gain my admiration. I wouldn't ask the question unless I had a suspicion that they did.

If I run into one of you ladies out in the woods and offer to help you stand up with your heavy pack, I don't mean anything derogatory by it, hell, I would do the same for about 1 in 10 guys in the woods. The other 9 I would do my best to make sure they never saw me.

I hear you. I have never run into another woman hunting alone, and rarely run into other women hunting at all, even with a man. I can think of just a handful of times, and I get out ALOT, and deal with hunters all the time for work. I don't know...maybe it's just location dependent, because I know they are out there somewhere.

I would never be offended by an offer to help me get up with my pack. I'd much rather that than have someone stand there watching me thrash like an inverted tortoise for 10 minutes because I can't sit up or roll over. Not that that's ever happened in real life....

 

[noharleyyet]

 

[JDH]

I agree (I think?) with @squirrel that the author drew from a poisoned well. We wouldn't be having this discussion if the article mentioned a few instances of gender bias but listed 20 examples of normal encounters. I know the author personally and am a bit surprised by the tone of the article.

I hope this doesn't put my in a bad light but when I was young I used to think most women who hunted were doing it for the fame/attention. I didn't grow up in a hunting family and knew no females who hunted but as I got older I realized this wasn't the case.
Side note but there was a female in my major(construction management) said that she was only doing it because she knew she could get a job because she was a woman. I don't know where she is at now but I assume her intentions probably didn't get her very far. Christine Fischer is one of the few(maybe only?) women who are in the KBF and is redefining the female angler stereotype and I think it is great to see her be successful.

I have since matured in my thinking and learned to not judge anyone until you know a little more about them. One thing that helped was that my sister ended up going to college for engineering. Hearing stories from her and my wife regarding gender bias has made me realize how prevalent it still is in the workplace. My sister hasn't done a project by herself in 6 years at her employer because her boss is "stale and pale" and doesn't think she can do it. Part of the reason I married my wife is because she is motivated and I know she can handle anything she puts her mind to. If my wife hunted I'm sure she would've had the same reaction as Buzz's wife if that situation happened to her. I've been a mentor to my sister for hunting for a few years now and her biggest complaint has been the lack of decently priced women's hunting clothing. As far as I know she hasn't ran into issues while gun shopping or with outdoor retailers.

Totally tangent and I encourage everyone to google it but there was a survey or something done once where women were asked what they would do if all men were nonexistent for a day and the answers were appalling concerning how uncomfortable women feel in their everyday lives around men.

 

[Bambistew]

I always get a good laugh, when my wife and I are having a discussion about hunting with someone who doesn't really know us that well. I let them go on and on about the trials and tribulations and challenges of hunting, but inevitably sheep hunting comes up in conversation... The look on dudes faces when my wife one-ups them, brings a tear to my eye. She's killed more animals here than probably 95% of the hunters that live here, its funny as hell, when she put them in their place. My favorite is "You think 8 miles is a long ways?"

I do understand her frustration though. She got the run around at the archery shop when she bought her first bow, on her own. The second guy that helped her was hitting on her more than helping, and one shop she refuses to return to because they were giant condescending assholes. She didn't realize that its ingrained in bowhunter's DNA Finding quality clothing is really hard, to be honest. Even mountaineering gear is 95% made for men. She spent an amazing amount of time researching rain jackets only to find there are 2 brands that offer women's coats with pit zips. There is about an equal number that offer good mountain boots. She understands that women make up a small portion of the hunting population, and that there really isn't a demand for competition.

I run across a lot of women hunting here, but have only run into a few pairs of women, and never one solo. Then again, I can't think of solo hunters I've run across either, not up here anyway.

Its an interesting topic for sure. My little girl said she can't wait to shoot a moose for me, so we can have tacos. I can't either! I'll start her out on something a little easier to pack, like a sheep.

 

[DouglasR]

This song didnt didn’t age well.
closing argument:

 

[IDFireLass]

Someone said to look at other boots like Danner, Vasque and so forth. Danner's are too narrow from my feet. Can no longer find Vasque and they changed them big time.
I now just wear Kenetrek's and Crispi.
Also I wear men's XL size shirts. A hair bit big but I can move in them and they will last me.
So it's not a one size boots or cloths fit's all for me.

 

[Europe]

I would have posted

Just fishing Trace Atkins

for this thread.

Granddaddys Gun, by Blake Shelton works for me also, which is what I used on the hunt I am about to mention on the "First Deer" thread

 

[Jstearns]

These are some disheartening stories. It’s sad, I was raised to treat everyone the same so I do. But this bit me in the but once opposite of all these stories. I bought my wife way to much rifle thinking she could manage the recoil. She takes it like a champ but does not enjoy the rifle. As to women clothing in the industry ( that’s not pink) I believe this is just statistics. I believe it is because the number of women that hunt isn’t large enough for these companies to devote millions to introduce another side to their lines. I could be wrong, I don’t know them personally nor do I know the numbers

 

[othercindy]

I appreciate the fact that so many of you took the time to read the article. It is a very nuanced topic and I understand that not everyone sees value in the piece, or the concerns that were raised.

I want to be clear, I asked for men to give feedback, and very few responded. I also was insanely careful to point out that I don’t believe this applies to ALL men. Maybe that was lost on many people.

This piece doesn’t represent all women’s experiences, nor does it represent all men’s behavior. But it represents enough that it was worth the discussion in my opinion.

Without knowing me personally, it’s easy to cast doubt on my opinions or viewpoints. Thanks internet! But I feel that if you DID know me, maybe there would be a little less of the personal criticisms, and assumptions about me as a person.

About me:

My name is Cindy Stites, I am from west central Indiana, and I am 44 years old. I have a partner, Chance, of 8.5 years, a bonus kiddo, Cianni, who is 11, and two Catahoulas, Ady (5) and Teddy (2).

I am a generalist hunter (whitetail, mule deer, squirrel, turkey, dove, and pheasant, so far, but elk and caribou are on my list of hunts I’d love to experience). I started hunting 8 years ago, after meeting Chance.

I am an Indiana Hunter Education instructor, a member of the Indiana State Teaching Team for 4-H Shooting Sports, and a certified 4-H Archery instructor.

I am a 2% for Conservation Regional Committee Member and a 2% Certified individual. I am on the BOD for the International Caribou Foundation as the communications advisor, the Citizens Advisory Board for Indiana Turn in a Poacher program, and an Ambassador for Artemis Sportswomen. I am a former Co-Chair for the Indiana Backcountry Hunters and Anglers chapter. A life member of the Indiana Hunter Education Association, and a member of nine other conservation orgs. (Including RMEF, Goat Alliance, Wild Sheep Foundation, Mule Deer Foundation, NWTF, Pheasants Forever and others).

For my actual job, I am the Director of Education for Hunt To Eat. I am in charge of the newly developed Hunt Camp program, which means I organize and schedule mentored hunting camps all over the country. I also develop the curriculum for the education portion of the camp, and I am a mentor.

I also am the Hunting Field Editor for the B.R. Shadley Sporting Report. I’m not trained as a writer and I don’t consider myself a journalist, I just like to tell stories about the outdoors. Fortunately, someone lets me.

For fun, I like to solo hike at our state parks, fish with Chance and Cianni, and mentor new local hunters.

I have always been considered “one of the guys”, I worked in horticulture for 25 years, with primarily men, I was raised by my dad, who raised me to believe I could do anything the boys could do, and kick everyone’s ass in the process. My hunting role models are all men, most of my friends throughout my life have all been men, hell I didn’t even realize I could be friends with women, until I was almost 40.

And to be honest, I get mistaken for a man about once a week. So there’s that.

But I think as we get older, things change, and we evolve. My closest and dearest friends are now women. I felt like the women in these stories deserved to have a place to tell about their experiences, collectively. So that is what I did. I don’t regret that. I’m not bitter, I’m not a man hater, quite the contrary, really. If you knew me, you’d know that. But you don’t, and that’s ok too.

I just ask that you be respectful of the women who put themselves out there, even if their experiences do not match your own.

And now that I have went back and read this, I am reminded that I also over explain things.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I loathe dealing with anyone behind a counter if it has anything to do with hunting equipment. At least 80% of the time they are complete a-holes, grossly incompetent, and/or miserable people. The few people I have met who show customer service I make a point to go back to, or I just try to buy online as much as possible. If I was a female and already had to deal with sexism on a regular basis I might disdain gun counter / archery pro shop experiences even more due to gender bias, and I can easily see how being ignored, talked down to, not taken seriously, etc. is interpreted as sexism - sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t.

I’ve also had probably 1000+ people express shock, disdain, disbelief, etc. that I would go into some wild remote place by myself. It gets old hearing this reaction. The older I get the more I keep these sort of experiences to myself or other people who do the same sort of thing. In this case it’s not gender bias, but rather just people’s normal reaction to hearing about an experience that is completely alien and incomprehensible to them.

On a more personal note, I have speech and mannerisms that cant strongly towards what could be described as effeminate. I could fill a LARGE book with my experiences of being sexually harassed, propositioned, assaulted, even unsolicited/unwelcome sexual contact initiated by men. Probably 90-95% of this crap ended after my wife and I got married 4 years ago.

The reason I share this in the context of this thread is that I’m far more inclined to just take women’s stated experiences of sexism in the outdoors sphere at face value and try to have some understanding. Heck, all I needed to do if I wanted a break from being treated poorly was to act more stereotypically manly, and now that I wear a ring social life has become dramatically easier. If you’re a woman, well there is no “off switch”, nor should there be the need for one!

People can act in very terrible ways towards one another. At the very least I’m all on board in trying to work towards solutions to make women’s experiences in the outdoors more welcoming and inclusive. That’s the very least I can do for my 3-year-old who loves all things hunting yet is still quite naive to the evils of the world.

 

[othercindy]

It's a nasty winter day and I'm trying to figure out writing, filing, editing, copying, printing, and captioning on Apple, and you folks become the guinea pigs.
But Doug?? you are forcing me to fly the Neanderthal flag at half staff. PITIFUL

Other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln?

A story nobody wants to write?? Rubbish she has been sharpening her knives for this for a long time.

I think this is a poor example of writing that has some undeniably valid points within it, but they are in the minority.
First she drew her water from a poisoned well, she sought out women who were ready to blow their tops and offered them a soapbox to stand on. It is hardly surprising how it played out.

The overwhelming number of first person anecdotes have zero to do with gender, biased or otherwise.
The structure is flawed, she is making a case against generalisation and stereotypes, by using… you guessed it… generalisations and stereotypes (pale male and stale). (frat-boys club). Sexism is terrible but the one girl can “outshoot most MEN”???? A bit of editorial discretion could have fixed some glaring errors. “Don’t you mean you can outshoot most anybody?” “Why yes, that is what I meant to say…”

She (they) is/are in search of Goldilocks perfect porridge and it is subjective and can change as quickly as a woman can change her mind, which, of course, has never happened. One woman is pissed that guys pander to her, the next is pissed cause they did not pay enough attention to her. It’s a classic set up of a no win scenario, don’t look at them?? you are ignoring them, make eye contact and smile, you went WAY TOO FAR BUDDY. Speak to them and the guy she is with beats your ass for “hitting on my woman”. Threading this needle is impossible and the perfect behaviour today will be tomorrow’s faux paus.

It kinda reminds me of the “Simpson’s” episode when the waiter is grinding pepper onto the salad…. More, more, more, TOO MUCH! Take it back… At what level is the attention “perfect” and how in the hell would anyone (especially an oblivious male) know?

A couple of classic conundrums on gear jump out. Women want gear made for them ( a very valid point) but balk when it is handed to them by a man. I guess “shrink it and pink it” was not the panacea they had hoped for as a marketing strategy.

Yep lots of people in retail sales know nothing of “sales” and less about the opposite sex (this is a two way st.). But if I had a retail store selling outdoors stuff there is a treasure trove of marketing to be gleaned from between the lines on this article. Hire more women stands out as one.

And speaking of vitriol… social media is brutal??? Who knew? DUH! But I was surprised by the hatred shown of pretty girls by the girls, no less. Interesting how they brutalised those who were well dressed and pretty while obsessing over being, WELL DRESSED AND PRETTY. (not all of course, that would be stereotyping)

As a subset of this, and I should have known it, or at least not have been surprised by it… women are really, really, really, into clothes.
And something I did know and they should have known is that guys like pretty girls, yes even younger ones.

And, in closing commentary, HER closing on commentary. First thing that came to mind was if trapped in a remote camp with her I would chew my foot off in the middle of the night to run away.

But everything else was fine…

I don't want to be discouraging in any way, but the idea of "chewing your foot off" and then trying to "run" away, doesn't feel like a plan you've put a whole lot of thought into. Nonetheless, thanks for reading and for the colorful commentary, it gave me a good chuckle.

 

[longbow51]

I don't want to be discouraging in any way, but the idea of "chewing your foot off" and then trying to "run" away, doesn't feel like a plan you've put a whole lot of thought into. Nonetheless, thanks for reading and for the colorful commentary, it gave me a good chuckle.

Actually, it should give you insight, not a chuckle. Speaks volumes.

 

[noharleyyet]

I don't want to be discouraging in any way, but the idea of "chewing your foot off" and then trying to "run" away, doesn't feel like a plan you've put a whole lot of thought into. Nonetheless, thanks for reading and for the colorful commentary, it gave me a good chuckle.

I thought it a Kathy Bates allusion...therefore reasonable ; )

 

[batj]

I always get a good laugh, when my wife and I are having a discussion about hunting with someone who doesn't really know us that well. I let them go on and on about the trials and tribulations and challenges of hunting, but inevitably sheep hunting comes up in conversation... The look on dudes faces when my wife one-ups them, brings a tear to my eye. She's killed more animals here than probably 95% of the hunters that live here, its funny as hell, when she put them in their place. My favorite is "You think 8 miles is a long ways?"

I do understand her frustration though. She got the run around at the archery shop when she bought her first bow, on her own. The second guy that helped her was hitting on her more than helping, and one shop she refuses to return to because they were giant condescending assholes. She didn't realize that its ingrained in bowhunter's DNA Finding quality clothing is really hard, to be honest. Even mountaineering gear is 95% made for men. She spent an amazing amount of time researching rain jackets only to find there are 2 brands that offer women's coats with pit zips. There is about an equal number that offer good mountain boots. She understands that women make up a small portion of the hunting population, and that there really isn't a demand for competition.

I run across a lot of women hunting here, but have only run into a few pairs of women, and never one solo. Then again, I can't think of solo hunters I've run across either, not up here anyway.

Its an interesting topic for sure. My little girl said she can't wait to shoot a moose for me, so we can have tacos. I can't either! I'll start her out on something a little easier to pack, like a sheep.

Little Mick is gonna be just like her daddy and mom, a true outdoors person