dirtclod Az.
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2018
- Messages
- 2,776
Where are the cattle guards?
Although I have seen cattle tip-toe across them.
Only in Az!
Feral Cattle in AZ and NM...removal
- Thread starter mrcowboy
- Start date
Although I have seen cattle tip-toe across them.
Only in Az!
RobertD
Well-known member
"Buzzards gotta eat same as the worms" is how that line goesCoyotes' gotta eat too.
Clint Eastwood-
BigHornRam
Well-known member
If they are anything like the range cattle I've seen in Utah, you might get a hide and some soup bones out of the deal.
So the Environmental Defense Fund has given it's backing to this idea, getting the cattle out of the wilderness. Not clear on the chopper idea.
Double edge sword there. They have helped us locals with the water grab battle for 10 years. But they are pro wolf and most here are not. I am not, without a season.
Not sure on who is required to build or maintain fences in the Gila /Apache NF's or how these leases work. Not sure I want to.
I do know they are used. By cattle folks. Cheap feed lease is my understanding.
Leases come with rules and regulations. I do know that much.
Ignoring them is the problem it seems to me. No enforcement & no compliance.
West Tejas is as flat as a pancake compared to this country. Not easy to gather cattle anywhere here really.
Too bad, that's the cost of cheap grazing, the labor involved. The fuel, the fence, the loss of stock due to elements. Same as at home.
Now I know one leasee who lives in town. Runs cattle in the Apache NF. Always complaining about gates open, fences down, cattle to be gathered. Constant calls from FS about his cattle, he says.
Guy is retired. So is wife. He is always up there...I think the guy has a cabin built and is just there.LOL
I can see in my head what condition his fences are in. I see his place every time I am at the PO.
Seems to me folks in MT mentioned a slow elk season when I was there in 1975. Hmmm.
Double edge sword there. They have helped us locals with the water grab battle for 10 years. But they are pro wolf and most here are not. I am not, without a season.
Not sure on who is required to build or maintain fences in the Gila /Apache NF's or how these leases work. Not sure I want to.
I do know they are used. By cattle folks. Cheap feed lease is my understanding.
Leases come with rules and regulations. I do know that much.
Ignoring them is the problem it seems to me. No enforcement & no compliance.
West Tejas is as flat as a pancake compared to this country. Not easy to gather cattle anywhere here really.
Too bad, that's the cost of cheap grazing, the labor involved. The fuel, the fence, the loss of stock due to elements. Same as at home.
Now I know one leasee who lives in town. Runs cattle in the Apache NF. Always complaining about gates open, fences down, cattle to be gathered. Constant calls from FS about his cattle, he says.
Guy is retired. So is wife. He is always up there...I think the guy has a cabin built and is just there.LOL
I can see in my head what condition his fences are in. I see his place every time I am at the PO.
Seems to me folks in MT mentioned a slow elk season when I was there in 1975. Hmmm.
More or less meat than a pronghorn doe? Because I've made that pilgrimage already, lol
S-3 Ranch
Well-known member
They’re pretty rank , maybe dog food
You would have a lot of burger.
Range grass fed. Big as a house and tough as boots.
The video the news showed was angus/cross on a range somewhere. I doubt that was actual Gila footage,
Corriente cattle are a whole different issue. They eat everything and are mean aggressive, with horns.
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BigHornRam
Well-known member
Those look like wagyu's compared to the ones I saw.
Horse and Burro: are protected by the "Wild and Free Roaming Horse and Burro Act" in Az
Cattle: The open range law in Az, is not actually a law, but there are 9 statues protecting these animals in Az. If, You dont want them on your property eating your flowers, then it is your responsibility to maintain a fence strong enough to keep them off your property and you can be arrested if you shoot one ( and some have been )
Hank: Didn't all this shoot them from a helicopter by the feds start from a lawsuit filed against them by the Center of Biological Diversity ? And, I was told this A.M. that the idea ( of shooting them from helicopters ) has been shelved, for now, because the N.M. Cattleman's assoc. threatened to sue them if they moved forward with that plan ???
April.
Yes, as of yesterday on the news. The get them out of the Gila Wilderness issue is what brought in CBD,not the EDF as I thought , Acronymns...LOL, into the fray.
Livestock over use of riparian areas in NM is an ongoing issue. It is sad what has become of the few flowing streams here in the SW. I don't bother fishing in NM anymore. Springs are mud wallows. Between the cattle & elk.
I do not know who's not so bright idea of the helo shooting was. And that has been "shelved". Because of the threat of NMCA. Their concern was verification of stock from the air, not the issue of the loose unbranded cattle. They just said it was retired leases...
The 1st report I heard was USDA-FS & USDA-FW would do the shooting.
Now it sounds like they planned on doing so all over the Gila/Apache NF, according to cattlemen here. Total BS.
NM free range laws are similar I believe to AZ. Your on the hook. Even on your own land. Roads, you better have good insurance.
Local guy stated when I got here,"Where my cattle are is their grass" I stated my place is fenced,"if I find one of your cows here it's my beef." Glad I bought a fenced place. $.
Did a quick search of cattle lease laws & regs for Gila....nada. Nada on main USDA-FS site. Just that fees were set ,again, in 2020 @ $1.35 AUM. About 1/10th what I can get for my place.
No easy to find link to how to get a lease even. I'm sure it requires a sit down in the office to splain....stall. Bet they are all,"in the field" today. LOL Also known as behind the door.
Thank you Hank.
one last comment here for WILLM1313 and I will bow out
I did forget to mention that the feral cattle AND horses that end up on the Navajo reservation find themselves in a less friendly and protective environment . Especially the cattle. there are no feral cattle on the reservation --they belong to the Navajo!!! Somewhat the same for the horses, but not quite as easy for the them. They do round them up, but are finding fewer and fewer markets for them. Adoption of wild horse, selling of wild horse after they break it, shipments to Canada and Mexico--however some of the recent problems with doing the latter is because of covid------there is obviously more to all of this but wanted to share with you since you ask about the laws in AZ And yes, since ALL the cattle on the reservation belong to the Navajo, they have the right to butcher their own cattle in order to feed their family
one last comment here for WILLM1313 and I will bow out
I did forget to mention that the feral cattle AND horses that end up on the Navajo reservation find themselves in a less friendly and protective environment . Especially the cattle. there are no feral cattle on the reservation --they belong to the Navajo!!! Somewhat the same for the horses, but not quite as easy for the them. They do round them up, but are finding fewer and fewer markets for them. Adoption of wild horse, selling of wild horse after they break it, shipments to Canada and Mexico--however some of the recent problems with doing the latter is because of covid------there is obviously more to all of this but wanted to share with you since you ask about the laws in AZ And yes, since ALL the cattle on the reservation belong to the Navajo, they have the right to butcher their own cattle in order to feed their family
OriginalOscar
Active member
When Grand Staircase National Monument was created there were several grazing leases. Late 1990s those leases where purchased by Grand Canyon Trust and retired. Once the ranchers had opportunity to remove cattle and the leases no longer existed, some cattle were culled if they couldn't be removed. SE Utah big, rough and wild.
Reading this story it sounds like Gila Wilderness has active grazing leases on adjacent BLM-NFS land which creates the issue of ownership with ranchers holding valid leases. I've ran into cows in Uinta Wilderness but during winter they migrate down.
Decade ago the Bundy Family left their cattle on grazing leases and exceeded allotments. The government roundup became armed standoff which splintered around the west with deadly results.
A few cows in a wilderness area is not worth pushing a needless confrontation with ranchers and local communities.
Now real problem in the west is Feral Horses and Burros. That fight needs to be fought.
Reading this story it sounds like Gila Wilderness has active grazing leases on adjacent BLM-NFS land which creates the issue of ownership with ranchers holding valid leases. I've ran into cows in Uinta Wilderness but during winter they migrate down.
Decade ago the Bundy Family left their cattle on grazing leases and exceeded allotments. The government roundup became armed standoff which splintered around the west with deadly results.
A few cows in a wilderness area is not worth pushing a needless confrontation with ranchers and local communities.
Now real problem in the west is Feral Horses and Burros. That fight needs to be fought.
I’m currently in NM and heard this story on local NPR the other day. My first thought was, “I’d take my rifle for a walk to help out right now.” Could probably scrounge up a few friends to do the same.
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OriginalOscar
Active member
Says alot!
“Zing”
bucdoego
Well-known member
More reporting on the same topic. It ain't going away.
www.cybernistas.com
U.S. Wildlife Service’s Culling of Feral Cattle Causes Controversy
by Newsman February 24, 2022, 9:02 pm
The U.S. Wildlife Service is addressing the overpopulation of feral cattle in New Mexico by sending hunters in helicopters to shoot them down, which is causing controversy.
...also...
"...a federal district court judge denied the motion. About 200 cows roam the Gila Wilderness, according to the Forest Service.
“These are not domesticated cattle,” U.S. Agriculture Department attorneys wrote in court documents. “There are no active grazing allotments in the area where the cattle are found and the Forest Service has not identified any tags or brands indicating ownership.'
U.S. Wildlife Service’s Culling of Feral Cattle Causes Controversy
The U.S. Wildlife Service is addressing the overpopulation of feral cattle in New Mexico by sending hunters in helicopters to shoot them down, which is causing controversy. Arizona-based KNAU reported on the debate and developments: An environmental group is supporting a U.S. Forest Service plan...
www.cybernistas.com
U.S. Wildlife Service’s Culling of Feral Cattle Causes Controversy
by Newsman February 24, 2022, 9:02 pm
The U.S. Wildlife Service is addressing the overpopulation of feral cattle in New Mexico by sending hunters in helicopters to shoot them down, which is causing controversy.
...also...
"...a federal district court judge denied the motion. About 200 cows roam the Gila Wilderness, according to the Forest Service.
“These are not domesticated cattle,” U.S. Agriculture Department attorneys wrote in court documents. “There are no active grazing allotments in the area where the cattle are found and the Forest Service has not identified any tags or brands indicating ownership.'
More reporting on the same topic. It ain't going away.
U.S. Wildlife Service’s Culling of Feral Cattle Causes Controversy
The U.S. Wildlife Service is addressing the overpopulation of feral cattle in New Mexico by sending hunters in helicopters to shoot them down, which is causing controversy. Arizona-based KNAU reported on the debate and developments: An environmental group is supporting a U.S. Forest Service plan...
U.S. Wildlife Service’s Culling of Feral Cattle Causes Controversy
by Newsman February 24, 2022, 9:02 pm
The U.S. Wildlife Service is addressing the overpopulation of feral cattle in New Mexico by sending hunters in helicopters to shoot them down, which is causing controversy.
...also...
"...a federal district court judge denied the motion. About 200 cows roam the Gila Wilderness, according to the Forest Service.
“These are not domesticated cattle,” U.S. Agriculture Department attorneys wrote in court documents. “There are no active grazing allotments in the area where the cattle are found and the Forest Service has not identified any tags or brands indicating ownership.'
Just for clarification.
They are in an actual wilderness area? As in roadless?
Why not just allow them to be shot, like coyotes.
Not a fan of waste, but if a dude shoots one, and only takes a backpack of meat out, isn't that better than chopper shooting?
I don't buy the wolf part. I find it hard to believe wolves haven't scavenged livestock dead in the forest.
There was a news spot on the subject again last night and now they have been finding dead cattle left to rot.
There was footage of dead cattle in the Gila. Or someplace on a river in the SW.
NM cattlemen up in arms...this is wrong.....the environmental concern for the habitat...no one knows who's cattle they are, they are unbranded, there are no active permits there.
No comment from USDA-FS since the report 1st aired outside of the helo blasting idea had been put on hold. The whole culling idea had been put on hold.
So the Cattlemens ass. claims it is the FS, on the air. Claim they have no idea of who's cattle they are. Wring hands over the loss of life and waste. The wolves are eating cattle and that's what is happening.
My take.
The NMCGA is using it for political purposes and the free bad air of the idea. Those folks know where the cattle came from, most likely. They know who's leases are nearby. Now the local congresswoman is up in arms...our own SW Sarah. "The outrage!" The greenie wolf lovers.....jeez. Bandwagon Betty.
The cattle were most likely shot,if they were, by poacher types. Or ?. The same folks who shoot cattle, elk & deer from the road.
The footage was all along a river area with fences and feed bins and tagged, untagged cattle in the shots too. Could be along the south river or the Mimbres. In a canyon area from above and along a river. Some shots looked like Tejas to me, flat as a pancake stock footage of wild untagged cattle. Not a hill in the distance.
No one got a official comment from USDA-FS in the clip last night. No comment since the chopper shooting idea came up, and never really clear IF it was a USDA-FS idea. It was a statement denouncing the idea, in print.
Not a peep from NMG&F.
They should be handing out the depredation tags or at least making a comment.
The damn cows should not be in any part of the Gila Wilderness.
There was footage of dead cattle in the Gila. Or someplace on a river in the SW.
NM cattlemen up in arms...this is wrong.....the environmental concern for the habitat...no one knows who's cattle they are, they are unbranded, there are no active permits there.
No comment from USDA-FS since the report 1st aired outside of the helo blasting idea had been put on hold. The whole culling idea had been put on hold.
So the Cattlemens ass. claims it is the FS, on the air. Claim they have no idea of who's cattle they are. Wring hands over the loss of life and waste. The wolves are eating cattle and that's what is happening.
My take.
The NMCGA is using it for political purposes and the free bad air of the idea. Those folks know where the cattle came from, most likely. They know who's leases are nearby. Now the local congresswoman is up in arms...our own SW Sarah. "The outrage!" The greenie wolf lovers.....jeez. Bandwagon Betty.
The cattle were most likely shot,if they were, by poacher types. Or ?. The same folks who shoot cattle, elk & deer from the road.
The footage was all along a river area with fences and feed bins and tagged, untagged cattle in the shots too. Could be along the south river or the Mimbres. In a canyon area from above and along a river. Some shots looked like Tejas to me, flat as a pancake stock footage of wild untagged cattle. Not a hill in the distance.
No one got a official comment from USDA-FS in the clip last night. No comment since the chopper shooting idea came up, and never really clear IF it was a USDA-FS idea. It was a statement denouncing the idea, in print.
Not a peep from NMG&F.
They should be handing out the depredation tags or at least making a comment.
The damn cows should not be in any part of the Gila Wilderness.
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