My third grade nieces can make a better impromptu case for the earth being flat than Jennifer Fielder can make for the sun rising in the east. Fielder is that inept and I consider it a stroke of great fortune that ALC has hired her as their CEO.
Federal Land Transfer info
- Thread starter Big Fin
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My third grade nieces can make a better impromptu case for the earth being flat than Jennifer Fielder can make for the sun rising in the east. Fielder is that inept and I consider it a stroke of great fortune that ALC has hired her as their CEO.
IlliniFIre
Member
Man Google can be a dangerous rabbit hole. Seems ALC is partnered with a group called Federalism In Action for there land transfer push. Of course, the IRS 990 for that group is difficult to find, but it is a part of the State Policy Network. Now if you'll let me put on my crown of knowledge (AKA tinfoil hat), it seems State Policy Network is one of the Koch Brother's favorites. So yeah, let's sell the federal lands to the states to sell to these two for mining and timber and what all else they have hands in.
Gerald Martin
Well-known member
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Nothing to see here but seredipitous coincidence to that connection. Move along and pay no mind to such ridiculous theories.
I'm personally offended that you would consider questioning my local Senator's motivation and intentions. She's asked us to trust her without providing numbers, projections or logic to back up her assurances that she and her hard working allies have a better plan for management. She's an elected politician and asks me to trust her, so that's good enough for me. It should be good enough for you too.
Besides, all of us know that the leader of that amorphus evil blood sucking blob called Federal Gubmint, Barack Hussain Obama (Mmm, Mmm, Mmm) stays up at night trying to figure out ways to cheat us hard workin', Mom luvin, apple pie eatin, 'Mericans out of our God given rights to use our land however we see fit.
Exactly. It's akin to if SFW hired Toby Bridges to be their spokesperson.
Not too late for you to file, Gerald. I think you'd be a welcome addition to the insanity in Helena.
Gerald Martin
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)*&*(^^&& you. Now you're speaking ill of my good friend Toby. I hope you get a paper cut at work...
Gerald Martin
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Not too late for you to file, Gerald. I think you'd be a welcome addition to the insanity in Helena.
I doubt sarcasm and snarky comments will get me far in the political arena. I actually have scruples so I can only be bought by the noblest of causes.
jryoung
Well-known member
The optimist in me thinks Ken is wise and is seeking to offload the steaming bag of turds that are about to spontaneously combust.
The realist thinks thus is just doubling down on crazy.
The realist thinks thus is just doubling down on crazy.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Consideration for the huge costs in managing and maintaining these now federal public lands in states like Montana, with low population thus small, inadequate tax base resulting in a "welfare" state status, leads to the assertion that the commensurate amount of federal public lands budget funding, BLM, USFS, or whatever, will be doled out to the managing state for "local" decisions on management and spending. An inherent problem with that assertion for someone living in Boston, Mass, as an example, is that then that Bostonian is faced with exactly what created the original Tea Party ... taxation without representation!
Arch Stanton
Active member
Does anyone have information on State Trust Lands in Oregon?
At this link from the state land board website, you will find the following, some of which is news to me.
http://www.oregon.gov/dsl/DO/Pages/aboutcsf.aspx
I've always admired former Senator Alan Simpson (WY). In this video, at the 57:45 mark, he gives his normal wry witty response to the folks who are advocating state take over of public lands. There is a part of me that hopes I live to an age where I can be as uninhibited as he is at times.
https://youtu.be/jLd9EzAV5tM
It is actually a good listen for the entire video, if you want to hear some of Govermor Mead's (WY) positions on topics. He is the Chairman of the Western Governors Association. I also have a lot of respect for Governor Mead and his approach to many of these issues. He deserves a lot of credit for the work accomplished publicly and privately in Wyoming to help keep sage grouse off the Endangered Species List (not that there is much credit left after Ryan Benson and BGF get done claiming all the credit for sitting on their asses).
https://youtu.be/jLd9EzAV5tM
It is actually a good listen for the entire video, if you want to hear some of Govermor Mead's (WY) positions on topics. He is the Chairman of the Western Governors Association. I also have a lot of respect for Governor Mead and his approach to many of these issues. He deserves a lot of credit for the work accomplished publicly and privately in Wyoming to help keep sage grouse off the Endangered Species List (not that there is much credit left after Ryan Benson and BGF get done claiming all the credit for sitting on their asses).
UTAHPUBLICLANDER
New member
Utah's republican leadership is a perfect reason to vote democrat. Bishop, Lee, Chaffetz, Herbert and crazy many others are a plague in this state. They need to go. This has became a COLD DEAD HANDS issue on both sides. One fool dead in Oregon and if the Utah Reps win people are going to snap on the logical side too. The Two political parties have turned American neighbors of many ideals into fools and enemies who fight each other instead of calling them out on evil intent and action. Sometimes it feels like everyone around me has the surname Bundy. This public land transfer crap has got more support then we hunters think. I just want to say Its great to talk with you folks who care about public land.
James Riley
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My guess is they are already behind and voting for those who wouldn't touch public lands.
This issue is really only a conundrum for those with cognitive dissonance. "Hmmmm, I love the idea of government holding vast tracts of land in trust for the egalitarian me, and managing wildlife, but I've been told by my wisdom keepers at Fox that government is evil, greed is good, and to the victor go the spoils. What to do, what to do?"
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As James said, they probably are voting for candidates who are not on the "sell the public land" bandwagon. Which is good.
Yet, they are also supporters of the process by which Federal land managers cannot do anything without being litigated. It ends of in no management of the landscapes. Which in my personal opinion, is as bad as some of the more egregious examples of hurting the landscapes.
From a bigger picture discussion, those groups "claiming to represent" (not sure they really represent them) the people Oak mentions are often doing much harm in the effort to protect public lands. A few examples.
Continual litigation of the GYE bears and wolves. Even though the USFWS scientists and biologists are the most knowledgeable about those species, there is continued litigation. It ends up with no progress. The litigation gets moved to a selective court with a judge inclined to listen to the cause.
That is completely hogwash and they know it. Yet, in private, they will explain how this litigation is central to their business models.
Soon, the litigation will be forthcoming about the USFWS decision not to list the sage grouse. A decade of work was invested in very collaborative efforts to improve the future of sage grouse. The forthcoming litigation ignores all of that and only serves to again take resources away from management and require those resources be applied to defending litigation by parties who make money, taxpayer money, by litigating.
We have listed over 2,200 species since the ESA was passed in 1973. Since then, 30 have been removed and not one of them because of litigation that helped the cause of that species, rather due to habitat work and laws eliminating the use of poison. In that regard, the ESA would be considered a very ineffective law, if the purpose is to recover species.
Yet, the groups "claiming to represent" the folks Oak mentioned will fight to the ends of time for any changes to the system that allows for such abuse. Those mechanisms they use need to be reformed.
And every time they file a lawsuit, it impacts the state agencies, the federal agencies, the private landowners, and those who use the public lands. And that creates a huge amount of frustration in the western communities.
Some will say, "Too bad, you should find a different place to (insert activity here." And with that attitude, it moves a lot of people who were open minded and wanted to be collaborative closer to the fringe. It makes the drivel of the fringe operators sound reasonable, even to folks who at one time tried to work collaboratively within the system. After enough energy invested in doing, they finally give up and use their personal examples as the anecdotes that politicians cling to as their evidence for taking over the public lands.
There is no accountability to these litigating groups. They have nothing to lose and only benefits from the process.
Until that changes, I see the actions of these groups "claiming to represent" the people Oak mentioned being a big part of the problem faced by those of us trying to keep the public lands in public hands.
I know some will disagree. Some will vehemently disagree. That is fine. As I said, this is my opinion; an opinion formed on life experiences of being involved in this stuff on a daily basis for the last 20 years. An opinion I feel strong enough about that I intend to do all I can to inform others of these actions that are a huge contributor to the effort to take your public lands.
RockyDog
Member
I am so relieved to see so many good, intelligent people opposing the federal land transfer schemers!
We have local elected elected officials here in the bitterroot working hard for it.
We have local elected elected officials here in the bitterroot working hard for it.
BuzzH
Well-known member
"If your horse drops dead, get off"...funny stuff for sure.
I think Wyoming Sportsmen have sent a pretty clear message to Governor Mead...and more importantly, through mutual respect, there is a good understanding of priorities.
James Riley
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They have something to lose, but not much. Most of it is gone. They can lose what little is left. But some of them think of all that has already been lost and then think "Fk it, let's fight." And that is what happens to those fighting a retrograde action. Sooner or later they John Brown it.
Who dares wins. Or not.
Are their scientists the equivalent of climate change denier scientists? The APA and the "arbitrary, capricious and abuse of discretion" standard and "agency record" scope already put a thumb on the scale against them and limits Article III review.
I understand what you are saying. I just don't think their motivations are mercenary.
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