Failure of the North American Model of Conservation

[BirdManMike]

Things I've thought about while smoldering in a blind, in only my underwear on a water hole for antelope:

1. Are there only an abundance of lope here because of the man made water supply for black shit ball cows?
2. If there wasn't any black shit ball cows drinking gallons at a time would there be more natural water left in the draws and coulees for the lope?
3. If it was Buff instead of black shit ball cows who would make sure there was water for the lope(or the buff)?
4. How did the lope and Buff get along before black shit ball cows, was there plenty of water for all?

I'm not sure this experiment has been tested. But the thoughts help pass the time, sometimes the heat gets to me.

This is something I’ve thought about regarding sage grouse, as well. All those water tanks out in sagebrush steppe surely have an impact for the grouse, maybe beneficial or maybe negative, countered by habitat loss to grazing.

 

[BWALKER77]

This is something I’ve thought about regarding sage grouse, as well. All those water tanks out in sagebrush steppe surely have an impact for the grouse, maybe beneficial or maybe negative, countered by habitat loss to grazing.

I think ita assumed the range was vastly different pre contact, but was it really? I just read an account of one of the great buffalo hunts. It was mentioned that in many areas the prairie looked like barren dirt from over grazing by the vast buffalo herds. In many cases it's possible the range is in better shape today. Although in the case of sage grouse I would bet there have been pretty substantial losses of sage due to chaining, burning, etc.

 

[BuzzH]

There's so much working against that, that makes it problematic. Fences. Danger of the animal. At least a bear can have some fear of humans. Even if ranching as we know it wasn't a barrier, I think those two alone make it impossible. Free ranging Bison just can't happen.

Guess the free ranging bison in Yellowstone, grand teton, badlands, custer state park, and a bunch of tribal herds didn't get the memo...

 

[antlerradar]

I think ita assumed the range was vastly different pre contact, but was it really? I just read an account of one of the great buffalo hunts. It was mentioned that in many areas the prairie looked like barren dirt from over grazing by the vast buffalo herds. In many cases it's possible the range is in better shape today. Although in the case of sage grouse I would bet there have been pretty substantial losses of sage due to chaining, burning, etc.

One thing you will notice in most of the pre 1900 photos is that there is very little sage brush and what few pine trees there are, for the most part don't have branches for thirty feet.
Using tree rings and old fire scars on ponderosa pines scientists estimate that fire frequency in Eastern Montana pre fire suppression was greater than a every 25 years. It would simply be imposable to maintain vast seas of sagebrush with that level of fire frequency unless the grass was grazed to the dirt. Likely that there was far less sage 200 years ago than today in SE MT.

 

[SAJ-99]

The elk were pretty uncooperative this morning so I had some time to think.

Lately, I've been thinking about what wildlife conservation and hunting will look like in the next 30-50 years in the West. Increasing populations with competing interests and values will likely lead to a focus on conserving habitat and increasing public access, decreasing opportunity.

The problem is that I can't see a future where Bison are restored to the landscape in a meaningful way that they function on the landscape as they historically have. There's a ton of social and political issues surrounding bison restoration. Biologically, it's pretty simple to restore bison, but the human dimension seems like more than our current conservation model can overcome

I think it could be argued that the NAMC fails when it comes to Bison restoration on this continent. What little bison restoration that has taken place has occurred either in private herds, tribal herds, or in national parks and monuments. There's minimal hunting interest (No Bison Unlimited or whatever). I know there's some pretty sharp folks on here and was just wondering what folks thought.

Interesting thought experiment. One thing I will say is pretty consistent is that we underestimate the rate and degree of change in just about everything. One thing I have been thinking about is artificially produced (cultured) meat. What if within 20years most meat is grown in a lab/warehouse and it is indistinguishable in texture and taste from the real thing? What does the West look like without cattle ranching? One thing is for sure, the Save the Cowboy supporters will be begging APR to buy their land.
The "That will Never Happen" crowd can save their responses. It's a thought experiment. But I assure you it WILL happen, I just don't know the time line.

 

[antlerradar]

Interesting thought experiment. One thing I will say is pretty consistent is that we underestimate the rate and degree of change in just about everything. One thing I have been thinking about is artificially produced (cultured) meat. What if within 20years most meat is grown in a lab/warehouse and it is indistinguishable in texture and taste from the real thing? What does the West look like without cattle ranching? One thing is for sure, the Save the Cowboy supporters will be begging APR to buy their land.
The "That will Never Happen" crowd can save their responses. It's a thought experiment. But I assure you it WILL happen, I just don't know the time line.

Landowners that haven't all ready will turn to pay to play hunting to help to pay the bills. A few more nails in the North American Model's coffin.
Other landowners will sell. Groups like APR will only buy a fraction of the ranches. Most will sell to people that made their money outside agriculture and are looking for there own private piece of paradise. More nails for the coffin.
Hunting will lose one of its major justifications. It will be much harder to convince the vast majority of the public that doesn't hunt that killing animals for food is necessary. I think I can hear the hammer pounding those nails.

 

[LuketheDog]

Guess the free ranging bison in Yellowstone, grand teton, badlands, custer state park, and a bunch of tribal herds didn't get the memo...

They also got vast tracts of land to roam on which greatly decreases the amount of impact they have on the surrounding properties, and, when they do wander off-range they get shot at. I'd sure love to have a few thousand acres with free ranging bison wandering around though...

 

[SAJ-99]

They also got vast tracts of land to roam on which greatly decreases the amount of impact they have on the surrounding properties, and, when they do wander off-range they get shot at. I'd sure love to have a few thousand acres with free ranging bison wandering around though...

There are plenty of bison being raised in Montana for meat. Probably hybrid lines, but still an impressive sight to see. A the extra $ per pound more in price will change behavior, even in ranchers who only change after being repeatedly clubbed in the head by reality.

 

[oswald2581]

Bison will never be wide spread accross the landscape because they are not compatible with cattle ranching.

Neither are wolves, but somehow groups have managed to force their reintroduction in some places.

 

[MTLabrador]

Neither are wolves, but somehow groups have managed to force their reintroduction in some places.

A total of 56 cattle were killed by wolves in Montana in 2019. That’s not very many...

Livestock Loss Statistics 2019

liv.mt.gov

 

[BWALKER77]

Neither are wolves, but somehow groups have managed to force their reintroduction in some places.

Not even close to the same.

 

[RobertD]

I have thought about this before, OP. I don't so much consider it a failure of the North American model. I think it's more the logistics of it.

What I have wondered to myself is this: How would bison have fared over the last 50-75 years if there was an established bison hunting culture? And what would a bison hunting culture look like? I can imagine bison hunting Instagram posts, magazine articles about the bison rut, bison skulls on the wall in the den in your grandfather's house. It would be really cool.

I don't know enough to make a prediction. I think if APR has some success perhaps we will see a few bison herds grow in the west, maybe one day enough that folks can hunt them once every 5 or 10 years. Hard to say but thanks for the thought provoking post!

 

[beginnerhunter]

I have thought about this before, OP. I don't so much consider it a failure of the North American model. I think it's more the logistics of it.

What I have wondered to myself is this: How would bison have fared over the last 50-75 years if there was an established bison hunting culture? And what would a bison hunting culture look like? I can imagine bison hunting Instagram posts, magazine articles about the bison rut, bison skulls on the wall in the den in your grandfather's house. It would be really cool.

I don't know enough to make a prediction. I think if APR has some success perhaps we will see a few bison herds grow in the west, maybe one day enough that folks can hunt them once every 5 or 10 years. Hard to say but thanks for the thought provoking post!

I thought I heard on the HT podcast they were saying APR purchases grazing rights from the federal government for bison. Maybe I was mistaken. Anyways, an interesting idea.

 

[EdP]

Calling the lack of bison herds a failure of the model does an injustice to the model. The model has worked splendidly where it has been applied (whitetail deer, turkeys, beaver, otter). As others have pointed out it isn't particularly practical to have free ranging bison herds in many areas, even in the west. Just like elephant and people don't live well in close proximity in Africa.

In response to your question about the future, I am concerned about all the wilderness area designations that make it impossible for states to manage the habitat for the benefit of the fauna. The model has been successful because it recognizes the key is habitat for the target species. I live close to an area currently suffering habitat loss due to wilderness designations. Deer numbers in the nearby National Forest are down significantly from two or three decades ago due to wilderness designations making it impossible for the forest to be properly managed. Without clear cuts or fires the forest is becoming one huge stand of beech trees. This is the consequence of having politicians that don't understand the science behind the issue.

 

[TOGIE]

Calling the lack of bison herds a failure of the model does an injustice to the model. The model has worked splendidly where it has been applied (whitetail deer, turkeys, beaver, otter). As others have pointed out it isn't particularly practical to have free ranging bison herds in many areas, even in the west. Just like elephant and people don't live well in close proximity in Africa.

In response to your question about the future, I am concerned about all the wilderness area designations that make it impossible for states to manage the habitat for the benefit of the fauna. The model has been successful because it recognizes the key is habitat for the target species. I live close to an area currently suffering habitat loss due to wilderness designations. Deer numbers in the nearby National Forest are down significantly from two or three decades ago due to wilderness designations making it impossible for the forest to be properly managed. Without clear cuts or fires the forest is becoming one huge stand of beech trees. This is the consequence of having politicians that don't understand the science behind the issue.

expand on the wilderness area concept

is this because they can't log it anymore?

probably not apples to apples comparison across the US, especially east versus west. it's a tough sell to say that wilderness area designations are a driver of habitat degradation as a general statement. what's likely more true is that it's the exact opposite.

 

[EdP]

Togie, the issue here, and I think in many habitats, is that desirable species like deer and elk are helped by clearcuts and fires. They both have a similar effect of fostering new growth and providing more food and shelter. Areas designated as "Wilderness" cannot be logged but are not allowed to burn, so they are not truly "wilderness" and the natural balance is lost. Here in Va, the dept of F&G has a deer management plan. That plan specifically identifies wilderness area designations as the key reason for the decline in whitetail populations in the National Forest. Much of the NF area I hunt is dominated by beech trees. Beech grow from both seeds and sprout from the roots so they establish pure stands that choke out more desirable species like oaks. Fires or clearcuts reduce the beech domination and allow other species to thrive.

 

[88man]

reintroduce bison in the red desert and make feral horse removal a priority

 

[Jape]

Among the issues already discussed, and they are significant barriers, is also the fact that people just really love eating beef. It's really a rather bland meat and people seem to like that. I think there would need to be widespread desire for utilization of that resource in order for it to thrive such that enough of the population would want to fund it. As it sits right now, most of the population is content with getting a picture of them in Yellowstone and then moving along.

 

[WanderingWI]

Arent Elk considered grazers too? Doesn't seem like Wilderness Areas are what elk would prefer then either.

 

[antlerradar]

Arent Elk considered grazers too? Doesn't seem like Wilderness Areas are what elk would prefer then either.

Elk like to graze on center pivots where they are not getting shot at or chased by wolves.