F&G: Fat-Assed ATV Rider's misuse of ATVs is No. 1 complaint in 2002 survey

[JoseCuervo]

F&G: Hunters’ misuse of ATVs is No. 1 complaint in 2002 survey

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The Idaho Department of Fish and Game wants to beef up its ATV restrictions after a 2002 survey found that the No. 1 complaint was unethical use of the machines during hunting season.
The agency issued a news release this week to clarify its reasons for the proposals.

Road densities and access sometimes affect big game populations, the release said, but the proposed ATV rule is meant to address conflicts between ATV users and others, according to the release.

Conflicts arise when ATVs are used to reach remote areas that have traditionally been used by fewer hunters.

Noise from off-road vehicles creates hard feelings between hunters when the noise frightens away game being pursued by hunters on foot.

Some hunters use ATVs in areas where they are not allowed, and others create new trails, which can cause erosion and damage fish and wildlife habitat.

F&G also receives frequent complaints that people are hunting from ATVs, which is illegal.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Yup, The fatasses have no one to blame but themselves. Idaho F&G is leading the way for the rest of the country with these restrictions. Where are all the ATV defenders we used to have around here?

 

[Ten Bears]

Some hunters use ATVs in areas where they are not allowed...,

Are they hunting or are they poaching?

F&G also receives frequent complaints that people are hunting from ATVs, which is illegal.

Are they hunting, or are they poaching?

Noise from off-road vehicles creates hard feelings between hunters when the noise frightens away game being pursued by hunters on foot.

I find "glassing and stalking" works much better then trying to pursue elk on foot. I'm usually to tired to get a good shot after all that running.

Conflicts arise when ATVs are used to reach remote areas that have traditionally been used by fewer hunters.

But that few hunters is the biggest group of whinning cry babies anybody has ever seen. Why else would they want to keep hunter with ATV's off roads and trails that are otherwise open to ATV riding?

 

[imported_Bill]

Calling someone a fat ass ,because they use a 4 wheeler to get in the woods. Is pure bull, I use one. I do not hunt from the seat. A lot of us older guys have joint problems and cant walk that far now. If you want to stop us we could use the 50 foot rule and hunt from the side of the road .that puts you in front of our bad old eye sight. does that make you feel more comfortable?
Most people that ride in the woods consistant are not hunting, or they could be doing something illegal to begin with.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ten,

It is funny how every post about Fat-Assed ATV riders is a conclusion by you that they are also Poachers.

The rules that exsist were being violated, and Fish and Game didn't have time to to try and enforce travel bans that the Agencies have.

I have no idea why this would be a bad think in your eyes. You still have access to ride your ATV on all the roads, just like always. But now, you can't get off the roads (we call that hunting).

And Ten, have you ever been to any of these units? The Fat-Assed ATV crowd will get on the ATV at sunrise, and stay on til sunset. Many of these are open country, where they are riding around until they jump a mulie, and then shooting the running animal.

You can cover a lot of country in the desert, on an ATV, and that is why we have 2-Point rules down there, as the fat-assed crowd has been hammering the mulies.

 

[Ten Bears]

EG, are you making ASS-umptions again?

It is funny how every post about Fat-Assed ATV riders is a conclusion by you that they are also Poachers.

Or, are you trying to avoid answering the questions? Working on that Democratic Ticket thing, again???

I understand that you (EG), IT, 1-P, and some others have a very basic mentality, and it can't grasp any other thought then that of: If you can't drive there in your pickup/SUV/"passenger vehicle", then everybody else should be limited to your level of limitation. You (EG & IT, not so much 1-P) are unable even attempt to fathom any concept of "mulitple use" or diversified use.

Let me simplify the question from earlier for you EG. Are those that break laws to take game "hunters" or "poachers"?

Or how about in the multiple choice format:

1. Those persons that break laws to kill animals are called?

a. Hunters

b. Poachers

(I have purposely limited the number of possible answers to alleviate the mental strain you must suffer when confronted with these complex questions. If you still can't get the answer, try flipping a coin, eg. (a) might be heads & (b) might be tails.)

 

[1_pointer]

If you can't drive there in your pickup/SUV/"passenger vehicle", then everybody else should be limited to your level of limitation. You (EG & IT, not so much 1-P) are unable even attempt to fathom any concept of "mulitple use" or diversified use.

TB- You're stretching to include me with these fellas, their old!!! No one should have to be limited by my level of limitation, but by how far THEY can hike! My biggest gripe with ATVs is not that I don't have one and other's do. My problem is that through unfettered access and lack of moral/legal enforcement that many areas are now nearly devoid of wildlife, critical watersheds are damaged, and that much of the abuse will never naturally revert even in my kids lifetime!

If they were used or held to the same restrictions as cars/trucks/Hummers/etc I think they would be great as they do much less damage and are more efficient. But until I see either the powers that be or the people riding them inacting effective controls on their use I will push for an all-out ban.

 

[RockyDog]

1-pointer, that's one of the best descriptions of the situation ive ever read.

 

[Washington Hunter]

1_pointer, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you use a 4-wheeler to haul a cow elk out of the woods, this last hunting season?

 

[1_pointer]

WH- Yes I did, but on an open, legal, mapped and managed trail. The trail is open to vehichles if you have the balls to try, I don't so didn't. The ATV never left the trail to get to the elk.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Well, you said you are for an "all-out ban" on ATV's. If that were to happen, how will you get your elk out in the future?

 

[1_pointer]

If you remember, 1/2 of the elk came out in my backpack. That's how the other half was going to come out had my pard not showed up with the ATV. I have no problem packing out any future kills.

 

[Washington Hunter]

1_Point, yes I remember, but I just had to give you a hard time. Still, I don't see how it would be fair to completely ban ATV's. So with an all-out ban, are you saying they wouldn't be legal to use anywhere? Doesn't make much sense if a guy with a jeep is allowed to drive a road, yet a guy on a 4-wheeler can't.

 

[1_pointer]

I typed too fast. I would welcome their use on roads open to all vehichles.

 

[cjcj]

As ive said over and over and over and over, ATV`s are just another "tool". If they or any other "tool" [4x4, snowmobile,jet ski,swamp buggy] are being used illegaly then enforce the law! impound fine etc. whatever. Ithaca if you think my above statement makes an ATV supporter, then i say your right, I support "freedom" as long as it stays within the boundries of the law, and so should you.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by Ten Bears:

You (EG & IT, not so much 1-P) are unable even attempt to fathom any concept of "mulitple use" or diversified use.

Let me simplify the question from earlier for you EG. Are those that break laws to take game "hunters" or "poachers"?

Or how about in the multiple choice format:

1. Those persons that break laws to kill animals are called?

a. Hunters

b. Poachers

It is funny how the advocates of "multiple use" are always the ones advocating the most devastating use. A strip mine in the Mountains is "mulitple use" to some. A dam on a river is multiple use. A Fat-Assed ATV Rider is multiple use as he tears thru a stream bed on his way to some other piece of land to scar.

Couldn't "multiple use" be hunting, fishing, hiking, geo-caching, camping, etc..?

And Ten, as for your Quiz, I need more time....

Which laws are you asking about? Fish and Game laws or other Laws? If I drive over the speed limit on my way hunting (56 in a 55mph), I don't think of it as poaching.

And that is the problem with the Fat-Assed ATV Rider, as they were breaking FS or BLM travel restrictions in their "hunting". So they did not consider themselves as poaching. I know Fat-Assed ATV Riders that back in the Clinton adminstrtation, the year they didn't pass the budget by Oct. 31 (so all the Gov't employees shut down), they were going behind the gates in the Clearwater, as they knew no FS employees would catch them. They still thought they were "hunting".

The other kind of laws are from F&G, and they are the not using motors to "hunt", with the definition of hunting to be locating game. Well, lo and behold, every Fat-Assed ATV Rider claims that they located the deer after they stopped, so it is just a coincidence they are sitting on their ATV as they shoot. That is probably the hardest enforcement to catch, as the warden would have to be 10 feet away.

So, I guess the answer is C

 

[Ten Bears]

EG,
C
That would mean you prefer to "poach", but also point fingers of blame at others. I also see by your comment that you prefer to be selective in the laws you follow, and how you think others should act..... Interesting, in a hypocritical kinda fashion....

1-P, I knew that would fire you up a bit.

[ 03-12-2004, 14:33: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]

 

[ELKCHSR]

I would say-let the ATV's alone as long as they follow the rules in the areas that they are supposed to be in, lets not put a blanket across all of them for the few ignorants that are out there. A few of you would just as soon not see another one on the planet, big deal. Now they best not be in any areas that I am frequenting because it is against the rules that is why I go to those areas to begin with. If you don't want your game scared away by one, stay out of the areas that they can go in. Simple enough, but then you wouldn't have any thing to whine about if every thing was going your way any way. Some of you don't care for ATV's in any way shape or form, I don't care for Socialism, Liberalism, or Communism in any way shape or form and let you tout your forms of Gov. with out to much grief, well with an exception or two...

 

[Ten Bears]

More stuff emailed to me.

ATV riders rally for road access
Backcountry ATV Association organized the demonstration; about 130 join motor-parade


Becky Kramer
Staff writer

When the snow disappears from the high country, Earl Castleberry packs a lunch and hops on his four-wheeler.

For a mere $7 in gas, he can ride 150 miles -- from Wallace, Idaho, through the forested St. Joe country, to Avery and back.

Castleberry, 69, bought a Honda Ranger after open-heart surgery hindered his ability to pull his motorcycle upright. With the four-wheeler, he can still navigate the rugged Forest Service roads he loves.

ATV riders make up the fastest-growing r
ecreational user-group in the Panhandle National Forests. Some, like Castleberry, are avid outdoorsmen who turn to four-wheelers as their health declines. Others are hunters or pleasure riders.

But though the numbers of riders are growing by the hundreds, the roads available to them aren't. Many roads have been gated in recent years to protect wildlife or reduce the sediment flowing into streams.

On Saturday, about 130 ATV riders rallied in Coeur d'Alene for greater trail and road access.

"Don't lock us out" and "Forests belong to everyone," read the signs in a motor-parade that began at the forest headquarters on Kathleen Avenue, and continued to the Idaho Department of Fish and Game's regional office.

The Backcountry ATV Association organized the peaceful demonstration.

"We may have to do this several times until they hear us," Bill Alexander, an association board member, told the crowd.

Recreation access has replaced timber harvests as the most emotional issue in the Panhandle National Forests.

The forest is in the midst of revising its 1987 "forest plan," the document that guides land use.

"When we last went through this, there was a whole lot of talk about how much timber we would cut, and how that would affect local communities," said Dave O'Brien, forest spokesman.

Timber harvest is still an issue. But public interest in roads and trail access has eclipsed it, he said. O'Brien attributes the change to a dramatic increase in ATV riders in the forest over the past decade.

"There's always been motorized uses, but it was more like Jeeps and motorcycles," he said.

The Panhandle National Forests has nearly 12,000 miles of roads, but only about a fourth of them are open year-round. Some have seasonal restrictions. About 7,000 miles are closed to full-sized vehicles.

The forest also has about 2,000 miles of trails. Just a small portion are open to ATVs.

O'Brien sympathizes with the ATV users' concerns. The forest began closing roads about 15 years ago to protect endangered grizzly bears and their habitat.

"Now we have caribou closures. We're talking about lynx, and some people are beginning to say that wolverines should be listed," O'Brien said.

In addition, timber sale reductions slashed budgets for maintaining roads. That also led to road closures, he said.

When Castleberry compares roads on a 1972 forest map to a current one, he sees a dramatic difference. "There's a lot of closures posted," he said.

ATVs also pose challenges for the forest, O'Brien said. Many of the forest trails were built for foot or horse traffic. They can accommodate a motorcycle fairly easily, but a 50-inch ATV is too wide.

"Resource management is a complex issue, and access is just one part of it," O'Brien said.

Every year, the forest receives complaints about road closures during hunting season. But those closures are designed to protect the elk, by giving them places to hide, he said. Other closures are designed to prevent sediment from muddying up forest streams.

"Part of our mission is to make sure we have clean water and habitat, so the elk and bear exist, and we have fish," said Ranotta McNair, forest supervisor.

The forest service has held many meetings to gather public input on recreation access, O'Brien said. The issue will be addressed in the draft forest plan, due out later this year.

To Rick and Jana Cameron, the ability to use public lands is a deeply held part of North Idaho's culture.

"All the roads and trails are assets. Why would you take them away?" asked Rick Cameron.

The Cataldo couple spends most weekends in the woods, mushroom hunting, berry picking, fishing and camping. They rely on their ATVs. Rick has had two knee replacement surgeries, and uses a cane to get around.

"Every year that you go out, there are more and more road closures," Jana said. "It's like something you've had all your life that they've taken away from you."


• Becky Kramer can be reached at
(208) 765-7122 or by e-mail at [email protected].

 

[Ithaca 37]

""Every year that you go out, there are more and more road closures," Jana said. "It's like something you've had all your life that they've taken away from you."

Like they've had ATVs all their life, huh? Do you suppose all those roads have been there all their lives, or could some of them been built in the last 30 years?

"The Panhandle National Forests has nearly 12,000 miles of roads, but only about a fourth of them are open year-round. Some have seasonal restrictions. About 7,000 miles are closed to full-sized vehicles."