Ethical or Not?

Accessing areas to hunt by helicopter and chasing animals from a helicopter until they're exhausted and then landing next to them and shooting are very very different things.

That's a fair point. I'm still not ready to call it unethical (in this instance). "Unethical" is not a word that should be used flippantly. I remember a conversation with a person a few years ago who participated in trapping (from a helicopter) antelope for research with a game management agency in a western state. She was genuinely troubled by the number of antelope that died from the stress. I, too, find that troubling. I'm not ready to call that unethical. I don't see any difference between what Hushin did and what the game agency did/does, the differing intent notwithstanding. Both were stressing the animals out in ways I consider unnecessary. "Unethical" is still a word I have trouble using.

The universal ethic is fair chase, it's a respect for the sport, for other hunters but far and above all for the animals. That shouldn't be subjective to anyone.

Fair chase is a value, not an ethic. Though, it is often called an ethic. Hunting in a high fence ranch violates the fair chase value, but it is hardly unethical. Guys who brag about huge bucks in a high fence have accomplished nothing and have no grounds for their pride, but calling them unethical a stretch.

I think I DO see what the fuss is about, and your comments, in particular help. I think my initial impression was something like "That's not my style, but if this is how they do it down under, how can anyone call it unethical?" If you were disturbed by my apparent inability to see others deem to be obvious, hopefully you can see that my aim is not mere provocation. If I am obtuse, so be it. I'd rather own it than deny it.
 
JTM307 it seems that you are conflating ethical behavior with legal and have a misundering of the terms in this conversation especially values. Ethics are the set of rules that govern the behaviour of a person, and are established by a group or culture. Values refer to the beliefs for which an individual has an enduring preference.

The guidelines that govern fair chase established by the greater community of hunters are by this definition ethics. They tell the hunter what is morally correct or incorrect in a given situation.

Values tell one what they want to do or achieve. In this case a hunter might place a value on killing a old animal with big horns. A hunter might also value the survival of a species, protecting the landscape, or working for the good of his fellow man. One may also value making money and gaining fame. A value of money over said former values likely drives many "insta-hunters" to pursue a quick easy kill with a great photo.

To your comparison about trapping antelope for research and hunting from a helicopter. I would quote spock, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." Here Star Trek was borrowing from Caiaphas mentioned in the Gospel of John as well as Aristotle, and it applies here because researchers at the game management agency are ostensibly working to benefit pronghorn as a species and unfortunately killing a small number of individuals in the process. The Hushin boys are killing for themselves and themselves alone.

By the fair chase ethics that this community of hunters adheres to these gentleman were acting unethically.

One could certainly argue that Tahr and Chamois are invasive and harming the landscape and native fauna and therefore this hunt was more akin to a cull. Viewing the hunt from that context their actions were ethical.

That said I think the majority on this thread feel that given their platform, message, etc. the Hushin team is trying to capitalize on the cachet of having one of these animals as a trophy. Mountain ungulate trophies are valued because they are hard to obtain and therefore are the mark of someone who has worked hard and has great skill. If cheat you cheapen the trophy.

TLDR: We are pissed because they cheated and used a heli, don't be an a-hole do it the right way.
 
[video=youtube_share;KJtYXoUDTX4]https://youtu.be/KJtYXoUDTX4[/video]

That camo really matters on 685 yard head shots.
 
I thought it was cute how they pulled the chamois out of the chopper before they took the glory shots. Nice touch.
 
“Throwing down some Golden Valley Jerky”


That was one of those shots that’s was missed so bad he made it.
 
That's exactly what I was thinking. mtmuley

That's exactly why I said in my post that he missed that shot by at least 4' because he sure wasn't aiming for the head at 685 yards or he would have shot before the cow cleared that bull's vitals! The other video I mentioned was just as bad where the guy took a shot over 800 yards at a bull standing broadside and nipped hair off the top of it's butt, then happened to connect with a shot to the back of the head as it ran straight away and they tried to play it up like he was a crack shot when the first shot had also missed by a good 4' like in this video put up by JLS, LOL! These guys are clowns and it's a shame they put out crap like we're talking about and I really wonder why Randy had them on a podcast.
 
It should go without saying that legal does not necessarily imply ethical, but that's why I said "in this particular instance." If it's legal to hunt out of a helicopter, it's not unethical as long as there are no other hunters around whose hunt would be impacted and the hunter is actually attempting to make a one-shot lethal kill. They took the video down (I presume) because they didn't like the negative attention. That by itself is neither an admission nor evidence of unethical behavior. I watched the headshot video. Assuming the person taking the shot is of sufficient skill level, it's not any less ethical than shooting an arrow more than 50 yards. There isn't enough in the video to make a judgement.

All I can say is WOW!
I guess some people have ethics and some just don't.
 
My opinion of the hushin guys.....I'm not a fan of Casey, but unfortunately I think he is the brains behind the operation. Brian seems like a pretty good guy that hunts as often as he can, and does a lot to help others both hunting and non hunting. Eric seems like a decent guy that spends a lot of time putting out most of the Hushin content. The firebull was definitely a bit of a rodeo, but for the most part he seems like an alright guy. I wouldn't say I would share a hunting camp with them, but I also think that they have influenced a lot of people regarding hunting and public lands. They were very outspoken about the PLT issue last year with Jason Chaffetz and they reached a lot of people just because of their following. They have 98k followers on Instagram and close to 200k subscribers on youtube. I don't know what they have for Facebook followers, but I'm sure it's pretty high.

In regards to the videos that Topgun mentioned; they are both poorly done and have bad shots. However, those videos were done 6 years ago before the hushin guys were working together. That was basically just Casey being an idiot. Like I said, I'm not fan of Casey, but the other two guys seems like they have good intentions.
 
That's exactly why I said in my post that he missed that shot by at least 4' because he sure wasn't aiming for the head at 685 yards or he would have shot before the cow cleared that bull's vitals! The other video I mentioned was just as bad where the guy took a shot over 800 yards at a bull standing broadside and nipped hair off the top of it's butt, then happened to connect with a shot to the back of the head as it ran straight away and they tried to play it up like he was a crack shot when the first shot had also missed by a good 4' like in this video put up by JLS, LOL! These guys are clowns and it's a shame they put out crap like we're talking about and I really wonder why Randy had them on a podcast.

You already really know the answer to that..... :) If not, maybe ask him....LOL I dare you...
 
You already really know the answer to that..... :) If not, maybe ask him....LOL I dare you...

No I really don't know the answer to that and I didn't listen to that one, so I have no idea what was said by anyone during that podcast. I'll not bother Randy and since someone else also wondered the same as I did maybe if Randy is keeping up with this thread he can make the decision as to whether to speak or not! I will say that when Casey made those lousy videos that our member said were done 6 years ago I reached out to Casey about them on another website he visited and we had some good conversation back and forth to the point where he seemed to admit they weren't done very well and he'd try to do a lot better in the future. I hadn't seen anything else since then that he had put out until this NZ chopper thread, so naturally I figured he didn't clean things up like he told me he would since this chopper footage was just more garbage as far as I was concerned and why I've been dissing him and his crew.
 
No I really don't know the answer to that and I didn't listen to that one, so I have no idea what was said by anyone during that podcast. I'll not bother Randy and since someone else also wondered the same as I did maybe if Randy is keeping up with this thread he can make the decision as to whether to speak or not! I will say that when Casey made those lousy videos that our member said were done 6 years ago I reached out to Casey about them on another website he visited and we had some good conversation back and forth to the point where he seemed to admit they weren't done very well and he'd try to do a lot better in the future. I hadn't seen anything else since then that he had put out until this NZ chopper thread, so naturally I figured he didn't clean things up like he told me he would since this chopper footage was just more garbage as far as I was concerned and why I've been dissing him and his crew.

I was just ribbing ya.. :) I myself have only followed the hush channel for maybe a year and have watched a few videos not only of them, but other video channels that have attached themselves to hush and I questioned those videos and of course fell on deaf ears. I actually asked Eric, main hush member, how he could possibly endorse what I saw on camera, no reply. Those videos are all in 2017 as well, so not stuff from 6 years ago, all very recent. If this is what we see in the edit cut, imagine what we might not see. :)
 
I was disappointed with BRO featured them twice. I assume it was to tap into there exposure, but it just wasn't good. The forced emotion... the sleeping in... the belly... the lack of hunting skills exhibited. Just not good.
 
I just can't stand the flat bill hats that some of those guys wear, I instantly assume they are part of the "bro culture" LOL.

That's probably not far to other guys that wear that style of hat, lol. But the "bro" aspect of their personalities is something that has always rubbed me the wrong way with them. And I don't know if that is part of the characters that they choose to play in their videos or part of their actual personalities. I don't think that is the kind of representation that we need as a hunting community.
 
I just can't stand the flat bill hats that some of those guys wear, I instantly assume they are part of the "bro culture" LOL.

That's probably not far to other guys that wear that style of hat, lol. But the "bro" aspect of their personalities is something that has always rubbed me the wrong way with them. And I don't know if that is part of the characters that they choose to play in their videos or part of their actual personalities. I don't think that is the kind of representation that we need as a hunting community.

You are judging someone because they were a flat bill? It would seem to me that you might be part of a "bro culture" lol. My wife wears a flat bill and hunts her ass off. Would she be considered part of the "bro culture" in your eyes?
 
I just can't stand the flat bill hats that some of those guys wear, I instantly assume they are part of the "bro culture" LOL.

That's probably not far to other guys that wear that style of hat, lol. But the "bro" aspect of their personalities is something that has always rubbed me the wrong way with them. And I don't know if that is part of the characters that they choose to play in their videos or part of their actual personalities. I don't think that is the kind of representation that we need as a hunting community.

Very stupid comment. I wear a flat bill and say dude and bro a lot. Am I representing the hunting community poorly?

Man some people think they are so high and mighty. People are different, who cares what they wear and how they look, etc.
 
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