" ENGLISH ONLY"

[cjcj]

Here are some real truths of "illegal Immigration".... #1 its a real complex issue.....what has happened is they [illegals ] have become so entrenched in our society. that it would take an unreal and unacheivable amount of manpower and a complete reversal of political correctness [racial profiling etc] We know that this would work but "we" as a society simply do not have the balls. Most Biz owners such as those in construction/landscaping etc. simply cannot compete with companies that hire illegals....I talked to one such owner who said that if he didn`t hire illegals in his [drywall] business he would go under.. the reasons he gave were . they pay illegals 12-14 bucks an hour and "NO" benefits.. He said they were paying "americans" that same wage 25 yrs ago with Medical/Retirement etc. He admits that the illegals have "driven" wages in the construction industry to an all time low[based on inflation etc.] Americans would "gladly" do these and many other jobs for 25-40 bucks an hour [what they should be].. Buzz is right about GW Bush and every president we have had! Bill Clinton Completly "ignored" our borders. Bush just gives it "lip service".......Homebuilders are getting filthy rich off of illegal labor and so are others....those of you that think that "illegals' wont be getting and competing for your "big game" tags are only fooling yourselves. An illegal named Jorge called into a talk show yesterday and said he is living they American Dream he owns 5 houses and claims to have made over 250 thousand [tax free] with his 3 businesses....you think our government will take his "stuff"? Not likely....We have illegals [drugs/ smugglers] driving escalades around west phx... these illegals have taken over whole neighborhoods.... so the problem is "epidemic"...... This prop "ENGLISH ONLY" is just another message to the polititions....It will pass IMO...and it will save Millions...But it won`t solve the problem....We the people have got to elect a "hard ass" president who is willing to #1 seal the border [military] #2 fine all who employ illegals [heavily]#3 Deport every illegal that is caught operating in this country...until those 3 things are implemented then this is a losing battle. By they way i`m paying $3 a lb for tomatoes [ how about you?] Where is all of this cheap produce?

 

[BigHornRam]

CJ,

You are right, this is a complex issue. In todays world, we can not afford to stick our heads in the sand and hope it goes away. I think everyone would like to find a workable solution.

Fresh January veggies are expensive no matter who is doing the picking.

 

[ringer]

Oh, the guy I fired was being chased by the AGs office for poaching two deer out of season with no license. I asked him what he was thinking and he told me he did not agree that wild animals you eat should need a license or tag. Said that in Mexico he could just hunt when he wanted to. Well, he is in Mexico now so we might have a couple more deer next year. I will wager that a lot of animals are lost that way every year. Different cultures.

 

[MattK]

Ringer- Funny you should bring up poaching on this issue. In Montana there were a couple of people from Seeley Lake. They poached hundreds, if not thousands, of deer. They were born American citizens. I would wager that a lot of animals are lost that way every year. Same culture.

 

[MattK]

CJCJ- For what it's worth the tomato prices are supposedly due to the hurricanes ruining crops. At least that is the excuse I have heard. I decided I could go without tomatoes for a while.

 

[ringer]

Matt-WTF? I never said there wasn't a shitload of dirtbags in the good ol' USA. I have run into a gut load. Just a fact that cultural assimilation is a number of dimensions and you can bet that we get plenty of poaching from people who don't agree with our laws. Of course, when I lived in Seattle the Cambodians were coming in after the Nam war and taking every sized fish, crab, dog and cat in the area. They were not used to our rules. Not necessarily a slam on illegals but a fact.

 

[MattK]

Ringer- WTF??? You bring up poaching as an example of cultures assimilating into the United States and how those diverse cultures are the reason for that poaching. My point is easy, poaching is something done by those in the good ol' USA. I am probably able to match example for example how people here are just as bad if not worse than illegal aliens. Your point is mute. If you don't like illegal aliens that's fine but don't give me some lame ass excuse that they poach all your wildlife.

I don't want illegal aliens as much as the next person; however, I also know the only way to stop it is by getting rid of the people hiring them. I say any business knowingly hiring an illegal alien shouldn't get a fine. The CEO should be deported along with the illegal alien. Maybe that would cure the problem. I really don't blame the person crossing the border trying to make better of themselves. Hell, if I were in their position, I might do the same thing.

 

[ringer]

Matt-I did not point to poaching as anything but a real situation that I encountered. We have around 1.5 million legal hispanics and around another million that are illegal. The land within a hundred miles of our border is littered with trash and trails where it was once a pristine Sonoran desert when I was a kid. I would feel the same as you if we could send at least half of our illegals to live and work in Montana. It would satisfy your apparent feelings for humanity and help us out with our healthcare and welfare burden. Had another person apply at work today claiming to be a citizen but spoke not one word of english. He brought an interpreter along. This problem is much larger than most people realize.

 

[cjcj]

Yep Matt i grow them myself [tomatoes] they are a hell of alot better than what you get in the stores...and much cheaper....but i can`t grow them year around... my last crop got ruined by a freeze. but to get back on topic you can have "diversity" and still all speak the same language.. its not the governments job to accomodate illegals...its their job to "deport" them .. and regulate all immigration.

 

[BuzzH]

Ringer,

Check out the desert near any big city...or small one, for that matter. Is there any landfills in AZ? Or does everyone just dump their garbage all over the desert?

I do agree that its worse along the border and near big cities, but you dudes in AZ treat your state like one giant trash can.

 

[cjcj]

Matt i think your missing the point.....Ringer is just stating th facts these illegal grow up in a culture of "breaking "the law... that why they are illegals. you need to understand that..... you guys Buzz etc. who want to hunt coues in AZ.. Go to the www.azodchat.com board go to "big Game" [problems down south topic] read what the AZ hunters have witnessed first hand.... then you might get somewhat of an idea of what is going on.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Matt
Diversity is a great thing, but for it to work properly, there has to be a general set of rules all that work with in the system follow.
Nothing will get done, if you have two, five, fifty different languages spoken at the same time. History has shown (especially in this country) that the diversity comes into play with different ideals meshing to come up with a unique new one. That is why the industrial revolution was so successful in this country, many different cultures with many different ideas on subjects put together collectively.
Almost every one that came from other places to this great country, in this time frame, strove to work hard, do their best, and to learn the English language.

 

[MattK]

CJCJ- I don't disagree that illegal aliens are a problem in AZ. I just think ringer makes it sound like the illegals are the only ones poaching and causing AZ to be a trash heap. That's wrong. Population creates garbage and littering creates a problem. Garbage may be more prevalent on the border but I would be willing to bet it is also more prevalent in any area it's not cleaned up (ie. outside the city). Littering is a large problem in Montana also. We have people volunteer to clean sections of the highway. They call it the Highway Adoption Program. I believe it has helped quite a lot by the number of garbage bags along the roadways. I don't think littering in Montana is from the illegal aliens we get up here though.

You say illegal immigration is a complex problem. You're wrong, it's really simple. People are leaving a place that has nothing to go somewhere that has something for them. The solution is just as easy, take away what they are coming here for (jobs). Once that is done, no more problem.

Elkchsr- You may want to find out more about the industrial revolution. It had very little to do with people learning English as their primary language. I believe it had more to do with the machinization of processes. Also, diversity is exactly what makes the United States as strong as it is. This diversity is a direct result of the freedoms we hold paramount in the United States (Until GW takes more away). Read the entire constitution, it's built on freedoms! Language is one of many freedoms people in the US have.

 

[cjcj]

Matt you really show your ignorance when you make statements like [illegal immigration is not a complex problem, and i am wrong] it shows you know very little about it.....you have very few illegals in Montana and you don`t have a clue to the many "complex" issues that we have with them in Arizona. Do you even know what a "jackpot" baby is? Matt your a "joke" on this subject... educate yourself please.

 

[cjcj]

To help you get started with your "schooling" Montana/Wyoming for example have less than 2,500 illegals in each state......While Idaho has about 19,000..... and Washington has about 100,000.. [now i know why WH hates them] his state is becoming "infested".

 

[MattK]

cjcj- the numbers you give point out exactly why I am correct. The more job opportunities a state produces, the higher the number of illegal immigrants in that state. Thank you for helping to prove my point that the problem is "People are leaving a place that has nothing to go somewhere that has something for them. (Washington, Idaho) The solution is just as easy, take away what they are coming here for (jobs) (Montana, WY). Once that is done, no more problem." Why do you think Montana has fewer illegal aliens than Washington?

 

[BigHornRam]

"Why do you think Montana has fewer illegal aliens than Washington?"

Because no one in Montana knows how to speak Spanish?

Really because Wash has a lot more labor intensive agriculture like orchards, aspargus, vineyards, dairies and so on. I hear the forest circus is hiring a lot of Mexicans to plant trees in MT and ID. I hope these folks are legal but who knows for sure, with all the forged documentation out there that is so easy to get a hold of. How can any employer be 100% certain that an employee is legal?

 

[cjcj]

|oo |oo Matt please get a "clue" You are totaly in the dark on immigration....You aren`t making any points that everyone has not known for about 50 yrs. Of course immigration just about "anywhere" in the world is about opportunity and a better life..... You came up with that point? Damn you are sooo smart...I don`t think i will waste any more time "schooling " you ... unless you take a smart pill or something....You are in College? if so you might want to try another school. You want to "avoid" the questions ... then i can`t really help you on this subject.... Hey Matt since you just got off of the bus as far as illegal immigration is concerned... Go back in the archives and pull up [Cj`s soapbox illegals] we might have covered this subject "a little bit" in that forum. then you will see "how original" your thoughts are....Have a good day. |oo |oo

 

[MattK]

CJCJ-You haven't schooled any one on this topic. Do you think making English the only language documents are printed in will stop illegal aliens? Get a clue, it won't stop it. I would bet it won't even slow it down. Again, the people are coming here for opportunities (jobs etc.) Believe me when I say there are plenty of people that would be willing to translate for them. The problem of illegal immigration will exist until businesses quit hiring them. The fact you bring up a "Jackpot baby" means nothing to me. Illegal aliens want to have a natural born citizen only to become legal themselves, their goal is the same either way. They use marriage in the same way.

If you're trying to state that illegal aliens create complex issues, I would agree whole heartedly. That is why illegal aliens are a huge problem in the United States.

Now list the "questions I am avoiding" and I will surely get back to you with answers to those questions.

 

[cjcj]

Matt "nothing" will stop illegal immigration "Totaly" whats wrong with your comprehension skills? Just go read the "soapbox" its all in there all the questions/anwsers/ and plenty of opinions...and some of it is just flat out funny. Son you have been severly schooled too bad you just don`t know it ... very sad indeed. |oo |oo |oo |oo |oo |oo |oo