E-bike Access?

[Wildabeest]

Totally agree on Wilderness areas. I would not support opening them up to any bikes, electronic or otherwise. Or helicopters...

 

[rtraverdavis]

Once again I'll beat my dead horse on the issue--I don't see how allowing e-bikes on non-motorized trails doesn't lead to more people in the backcountry, more people disturbing sanctuary areas for wildlife with so few places left to get away from us. The whole access argument is bullshit. If you want to get back there, ride a regular bike or walk. No one's saying you can't do that. If you physically can't, I'm sorry. Plenty of other places to go.

 

[Hammsolo]

I have an e.bike. I wouldn't take it on a trail, but I do use it on roads. As far as speed goes it helps me go up hills faster, as I would be walking with a regular bike, and going slow with an e.bike. By far the fastest I go is down hill, powered by gravity, no motor, so it's just as fast with a regular bike as with an e.bike. More erosion? How can that be? Actually my e.bike has fat tires ans leaves much less of a trail than my regular bike with thin tires. If you want to see real erosion on a trail or a road, look at what horses do to them.

Good points. I guess there are so many different e-bikes. I clearly have a certain type in my head, and I need to open up. That is part of the problem though. How does one define e-bike when you have high performance e-mountain bikes costing $12k and road cruisers that suit an entirely different purpose. I get into arguments with my horse buddies all the time about access to wilderness... They play havoc on the trails around my area, especially with n the spring.

 

[Hammsolo]

Yes. Was seriously considering buying one a couple of years ago with the incorrect assumption that if DMV’s didn’t consider them motorized vehicles, then BLM, FS, etc. didn’t either. After doing more research, I discovered that was not correct. I wonder how many current “violators” are ignorant of the differentiation vs. knowingly violating the rules.

Bakcou is based here in UT and I went up to their operation in Ogden and met with the owners and test drove a few bikes. I’ve not seen any bikes e-bikes over $5k. But given what good mountain bikes cost these days, $4k for an e-bike isn’t that far into the stratosphere from a price perspective. I likely would have bought one back then if I could have used it for hunting. But instead ended up buying a Salsa Mukluk fat bike and outfitting it with paniers and tail rack/bag for hauling gear. Getting weight lower on the bike vs. in a backpack is key to being able to safely hunt from a bike. I likely would have gotten a trailer if I bought an e-bike, but do not use one with my regular bike. So I’d still have a multi-trip pack out if I ever got something while bike hunting.

Spending under 3k on a nice full-suspension bike is nearly impossible these days. Most of the full suspension e-bikes from a company like Specialized, Giant, or Trek start at over $4k. I’m not sure what companies you’re looking at. There are loads at over $10k... far out of my price range. I do love Salsa bikes! Bikes are good, but they have their place.

 

[ScottP]

The Federal government has already “drawn a line” as it relates to what is or is not an e-bike:

A 2002 law enacted by Congress, HB 727, amended the Consumer Product Safety Commission definition of e-bikes. The law defined a low-speed electric bicycle as “A two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph.” The federal law permits e-bikes to be powered by the motor alone (a “throttle-assist” e-bike), or by a combination of motor and human power (a “pedal-assist” e-bike).

State and local governments have adapted this to their own regulations. It appears to me that the intent is to cap the performance to be on par with non-motor assisted bikes.

The above is from a DMV standpoint, not whether they should/should not be allowed on non-motorized trails (although some local governments have applied the standard for recreational trails under their jurisdiction). I only included to indicate that there are ways to draw a line.

True, there are many ways to draw the line. But I think it sets bad precedent to call allow a motorized vehicle on non-motorized trails just because it's mechanically governed to operate somewhat like a pedal bike.

I'm admittedly biased because I've already encountered the e-bike crowd in my elk area behind closed gates that explicitly say "Closed to motorized use". I'm an avid mountain biker as well, I just don't think fancy language and technology limits make a motorized bike a non-motorized bike.

 

[lastlight]

Hard, hard no and over my cold dead body.

 

[Schaaf]

Should be a public vote

 

[Hammsolo]

True, there are many ways to draw the line. But I think it sets bad precedent to call allow a motorized vehicle on non-motorized trails just because it's mechanically governed to operate somewhat like a pedal bike.

I'm admittedly biased because I've already encountered the e-bike crowd in my elk area behind closed gates that explicitly say "Closed to motorized use". I'm an avid mountain biker as well, I just don't think fancy language and technology limits make a motorized bike a non-motorized bike.

Preach it brother!

 

[HyperWoof13]

Some of the "E bikes" are pretty much motorcycles. Where I hunt we can use ATV's but I hate the noise they make and am looking into getting a eBike with trailer like this one. https://www.weknowsolar.com/post/delfast-top-3-0-electric-bike

 

[rwc101]

Some of the "E bikes" are pretty much motorcycles. Where I hunt we can use ATV's but I hate the noise they make and am looking into getting a eBike with trailer like this one. https://www.weknowsolar.com/post/delfast-top-3-0-electric-bike

Make sure that's legal everywhere you want to use it. That does not qualify as an e-bike according to the DOI, so it wouldn't be legal on BLM, NPS, and other DOI lands.

 

[Wildabeest]

Below is the federal definition of an e-bike. States set their own, but they typically use similar criteria. The designations are used to determine whether they need to be licensed as motor vehicles or are considered bikes, as well as their permissibility on “non-motorized” trails on state or local lands. Feds have specifically released policy forbidding e-bikes on non-motorized trails on federal lands. State and local government regs vary on the subject for lands they own.

“A two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph.” The federal law permits e-bikes to be powered by the motor alone (a “throttle-assist” e-bike), or by a combination of motor and human power (a “pedal-assist” e-bike).

 

[Seeleylakehunter]

3 rd day of rifle season this year I was walking a gated road a bit of snow on the road . Walking was slow but that was ok. I hadn't seen or heard anything until this guy with a full pack,rifle strapped to his back on a fat tire electric bike says, on your left . Grouse being flushed from under your feet feeling. I stopped. pointed my feet uphill and started walking just in time to see him eat shit on the next corner I let out an a laugh probably louder than I should have but.......watching home pick the snow from his rifle scope was iceing on the cake.

 

[David58]

I find it a slippery slope. I see a lot of impact from bikes here in the mountains of New Mexico - popular trails are used hard. Unless you want a) more use of roadless areas by recreational mountain bikers, b) the resultant disruption of the wildlife we want to sneak up on, and c) more damage/impact, bicycles should be considered "motorized" traffic. Akin to breechloading "muzzleloaders", they are outside of the intent of the rule.

 

[SSGOldfart]

Once again I'll beat my dead horse on the issue--I don't see how allowing e-bikes on non-motorized trails doesn't lead to more people in the backcountry, more people disturbing sanctuary areas for wildlife with so few places left to get away from us. The whole access argument is bullshit. If you want to get back there, ride a regular bike or walk. No one's saying you can't do that. If you physically can't, I'm sorry. Plenty of other places to go.

Humm Not a good look,as I said before maybe some areas need to be closed,if it can't be used by all. it's public land not private property

 

[BackofBeyond]

Humm Not a good look,as I said before maybe some areas need to be closed,if it can't be used by all. it's public land not private property

You go ahead and find me where in the ADA it says guaranteed access to anywhere you want?

Go ahead, I'll wait.

You seem to think you're a special case that just because YOU can't access it physically, all barriers to entry need to be dropped. Not the case, and not how the world works. These public lands are set aside for public use, but also protected as wildlife habitat and sanctuary. The easier access is, the less sanctuary it is.

 

[jpc01101]

You go ahead and find me where in the ADA it says guaranteed access to anywhere you want?

Go ahead, I'll wait.

You seem to think you're a special case that just because YOU can't access it physically, all barriers to entry need to be dropped. Not the case, and not how the world works. These public lands are set aside for public use, but also protected as wildlife habitat and sanctuary. The easier access is, the less sanctuary it is.

I don’t disagree with you necessarily, so should horse traffic be banned as well? They do far more damage to the trails. A dude who wouldn’t walk across the street to meet Jesus in the backcountry on a horse…no one has a problem. Someone pedaling themselves back there with electric assist, big problem.

 

[BackofBeyond]

I don’t disagree with you necessarily, so should horse traffic be banned as well? They do far more damage to the trails. A dude who wouldn’t walk across the street to meet Jesus in the backcountry on a horse…no one has a problem. Someone pedaling themselves back there with electric assist, big problem.

Not at all. But the gentleman I replied to before has gone back through old posts referencing e-bikes and how he thinks all restrictions need to be dropped because he is disabled. In another thread several people pointed out special access programs in several states that would be beneficial to him, but digs up another thread to be a troll.

I'm not for removing access, just not added e-bikes to the list of acceptable modes of access. If a closed road is currently accessible by foot, horse, or pedal bike then keep it as such. E-bikes have a mechanical motor, even if it's just to assist, it's still motorized transportation - keep it 'em out.

 

[DWarcher]

I don’t disagree with you necessarily, so should horse traffic be banned as well? They do far more damage to the trails. A dude who wouldn’t walk across the street to meet Jesus in the backcountry on a horse…no one has a problem. Someone pedaling themselves back there with electric assist, big problem.

Barrier to entry with a horse is infinitely higher than that of an e-bike; 100% would lead to more people in the backcountry.

There's plenty of forest service roads to ride your bike on.

 

[SSGOldfart]

Not at all. But the gentleman I replied to before has gone back through old posts referencing e-bikes and how he thinks all restrictions need to be dropped because he is disabled. In another thread several people pointed out special access programs in several states that would be beneficial to him, but digs up another thread to be a troll.

I'm not for removing access, just not added e-bikes to the list of acceptable modes of access. If a closed road is currently accessible by foot, horse, or pedal bike then keep it as such. E-bikes have a mechanical motor, even if it's just to assist, it's still motorized transportation - keep it 'em out.

#1 I'm not a troll, just belive Acess to PUBLIC Land should be open to everyone. The ideal that if it has a motor it should be blocked, well I guess that would also block my power wheel chair Backofbeyound Did point out a couple of programs I wasn't aware of.
Guess I just get a little upset when some tells me I can't because I'm a disabled veteran in a wheelchair,
If I could walk I would, but until then, a e-bike is my only way in. Someone in another thread also on E-bikes said I must think I'm special, but No I'm not any better then most of you guys Just disabled from a combat injury.
I've not tried to point out who or how more damage to the resources is done, ie Horse's vs.ATV because there may be a reason that person uses them that I'm not a ware of??????????????.
I would like to point out a ebike is quieter and smaller then my power wheelchair which ADA does say I can us even with it's mechanical motor and battery.
I'm done with this argumentative thread.

 

[Stone_Ice_1]

I see people on E bikes all over town now and of course on the trails. Most of these bikes when I see them now I am always thinking to myself, "That is not a bike anymore, that is a motorbike." Some of these things are huge. Have great big fat tires on them, a big motor, most people aren't even pedaling when they use them. They are the size of a traditional motorbike. These things are just a motorbike with pedals on them to make the user feel good about themselves.