Dubya says drill first, hunt what's left (again)

[BuzzH]

Maybe you should read the USFWS report on area 1002....

The list of impacts...known and potential are pretty well spelled out in that report, and frankly I cant come up with a guarantee from the oil and gas developers that wildlife populations will increase.

Can you explain how oil and gas development has increased wildlife populations? Is it that the caribou are doing better because oil field workers throw them lettuce off their sandwiches?

And for the last time its the ARCTIC NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE...wildlife should take priority. Pretty easy concept to grasp for anyone with more than a couple firing brain cells.

If it was the ARCTIC NATIONAL OIL REFUGE...well, different story.

 

[AKHighmark]

Pretty easy concept to grasp for anyone with more than a couple firing brain cells.

WTF???? Since when did this thread resort to personal attacks? Pretty typical for the liberal elitist to resort to calling a person stupid when they have no real arguement.

 

[YourRoyalHighness]

AKHiMom or Gusieppe,

Can either one of you explain why we should drill on a Wildlife Refuge???

Should a Wildlife Refuge be an area set aside for Wildlife???

 

[AKHighmark]

Things should be looked at on a case by case basis. How can you compare something like ANWR to anything else that is happening in the lower 48. How many people ever will go to visit ANWR? Lets get a little real here people.

 

[YourRoyalHighness]

Things should be looked at on a case by case basis. How can you compare something like ANWR to anything else that is happening in the lower 48. How many people ever will go to visit ANWR? Lets get a little real here people.

So a Wildlife Refuge should only be protected if PEOPLE use it????

I think somebody forgot to wear their helmet while snowmobiling..... |oo

WASHINGTON -- Even on its best day, the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is an austere place, a sprawling block of land on Alaska's northern edge the size of South Carolina that is sparsely populated and two steps beyond remote.

Yet ANWR is looming large in Congress again, touching off a fierce battle over competing goals of protecting the environment and increasing domestic production of oil and gas. The pace -- and the intensity -- is expected to pick up in the coming weeks as congressional committees begin considering legislation to allow drilling in ANWR.

While many key players and issues remain the same from 1987 when the battle began, changes this year have upset expectations on both sides.

Republicans, emboldened by bigger majorities in the House and Senate, believe this is the best chance they've had to finally pass a bill since 1995, when Congress approved drilling only to have it vetoed by President Clinton.

Critics point to their own changes. Foremost is a pronounced lack of interest in ANWR from some big oil companies. BP, ConocoPhillips and ChevronTexaco have withdrawn from Arctic Power, the business coalition formed to lobby for drilling in ANWR. Among big oil companies, only Exxon Mobil Corp. remains.

Thus the battle lines are set.

Supporters, including President Bush, say opening ANWR is a crucial first step toward easing the United States' reliance on foreign sources of oil. With modern technology, they say, the job can be done without harming ANWR's unique wildlife.

"I think we ought to allow for exploration in environmentally responsible ways in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge," Bush told the Detroit Economic Club this month.

"For the sake of this economy and for the sake of national security, Congress needs to pass an energy plan and get it to my desk as soon as possible so we can become less reliant on foreign sources of energy," Bush said.

Opponents strenuously disagree, arguing that opening a largely untouched refuge to industrial activity would destroy its unique wildlife and environment while contributing little to resolving the nation's energy woes. Even worse, they believe that opening ANWR would lead to increased drilling in other protected areas.

"If they are allowed to go into ANWR, where will they go next? Big Sur? Olympic National Forest? Puget Sound?" asks Brian Moore, legislative director for the Alaska Wilderness League, a group opposing drilling in ANWR.

Both sides have been maneuvering for weeks to gain advantage. There are dueling Web sites, opinion polls, news conferences and lobbying campaigns.

At issue is a 1.5 million-acre coastal plain within ANWR that was set aside by President Carter in 1980 so it could be studied to determine whether it had oil and natural-gas deposits. Drilling supporters say only 2,000 acres of the 1.5 million acres would be affected by exploration, a virtual speck in the refuge's total of 19 million acres. Opponents counter that far more area would be affected by roads and pipelines connecting drilling pads.

No one knows for certain how much oil lies beneath ANWR. Industry officials estimate the total is between 6 billion barrels and 16 billion barrels. Opponents dispute those numbers as wild guesses.

Even if ANWR is awash in oil, it isn't enough to make a dent in the nation's energy needs or to offset the dangers of drilling in a pristine land, critics say.

"We can't produce our way out of the problems we have," said Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. "We have less than 3 percent of the oil reserves in the world, counting what's in ANWR. We simply can't do that."

The knowledge about ANWR's biology is more complete. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has described the coastal plain as a rich and important biological resource. It serves as the breeding ground for the Porcupine herd of caribou and sustains bears, wolves and a vast variety of migratory birds.

"Reducing America's dependence on foreign oil is an urgent priority," said Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., co-sponsor of legislation to permanently designate ANWR as a wilderness area, the highest level of protection.

"Is it worth forever losing a national treasure, one of our country's last great wild places, for oil that would not reach refineries for seven to 10 years?" Cantwell said. "We should be developing a smart, forward-looking strategy to wean our economy off its addiction to foreign oil without sacrificing our country's wild places."

Drilling in ANWR, she said, "is symbolic of an ill-conceived strategy. Why are you taking this pristine place and turning it into something else?"

Drilling opponents are seizing on the oil companies pulling out of Arctic Power.

"The oil companies saying they don't want to lobby Congress for access to this piece of land is a huge setback," said Moore of the Alaska Wilderness League.

"Who's asking for it? Only a handful of people -- the Alaska delegation, the White House and some leaders in Congress. That's all. We're not only right on the facts and figures, we're right morally. They know they're wrong, and they're only pandering to big business," Moore said.

Republicans are also uncertain about tactics. Republican leaders in the House disagreed last week on whether ANWR should be included in a giant energy bill. Last year the inclusion of ANWR helped to kill the bill. Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, chairman of the committee writing the bill, said he prefers to leave ANWR out of the new bill to increase chances that an energy bill will pass.

But House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, and Rep. Richard Pombo, R-Calif., quickly dismissed that approach. DeLay said he "wholeheartedly" supported including ANWR in the energy bill.

With the outcome in doubt, both sides are launching public relations campaigns.

Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M. who is leading efforts to allow drilling, will visit ANWR this week with Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman, Interior Secretary Gale Norton and at least two other senators.

"The case for greater self-reliance has never been more compelling. The case for environmentally sensitive energy development in Alaska has never been sounder," Domenici said in announcing the trip.

"We will see for ourselves how American ingenuity and innovation protects our environment and our wildlife while allowing us to develop our own energy."

Moore said several hundred opponents from 30 states will swarm across Capitol Hill the week of March 6 to persuade lawmakers to block drilling. Pombo, chairman of the House Resources Committee, says the lobbying won't work.

"Environmental special interest groups have distorted the facts about ANWR energy production to raise money and advance political agendas," he said. "In fact, ANWR has been a cash cow for their fund raising for more than a decade. It's time for ANWR to become a cash and jobs cow for all of the American people, not just a few."

Opponents, which include most major environmental groups and many Democrats, including all seven from Washington state, promise to dig in just as deep. They have successfully blocked Republican-led efforts the past five years to allow drilling to take place.

Despite the tough talk on both sides, the fate of the proposal is likely to lie in the arcane world of parliamentary procedure.

Republicans in the Senate concede they don't have the 60 votes needed to cut off the filibuster Democrats promise to launch to block any bill to open ANWR to drilling.

To get around that barrier, Domenici wants to add the ANWR provision to the budget resolution, a blueprint on how Congress plans to spend money in the coming fiscal year. That measure cannot be filibustered and needs only 51 votes to pass.

But even that approach has barriers. Congress failed to pass a budget resolution last year because of difference over spending priorities.

Still, Bush remains optimistic. He has included $2.4 billion in revenue from oil leases at ANWR in his budget for next fiscal year.

 

[BuzzH]

AKhighmark, if you have more than a couple firing brain cells, you shouldnt be offended.

As to how many people visit ANWR, thats not the issue, nor the intent of the National WILDLIFE refuge system.

Have you ever read what the goals of the NWR system are?

Its dry reading, but worth it.

 

[AKHighmark]

We could beat each over the head endlessly on this subject. No one is going to change eithers views. You can fight against and I will fight for development. I just hope you people against development are driving Honda Civics or are riding your bike everywhere you go.

 

[BuzzH]

Well, it seems the law is pretty well on the side of the NWR system:

For your firing brain cells:

"Refuge Administration Act

This Act serves as the “organic act” for the National Wildlife Refuge System. The National Wildlife Refuge System Administration Act, as amended, consolidated the various categories of lands administered by the Secretary of the Interior (Secretary) through the Service into a single National Wildlife Refuge System.

The Act establishes a unifying mission for the Refuge System. This Act states first and foremost that the mission of the National Wildlife Refuge System be focused singularly on wildlife conservation

 

[ringer]

AK-don't ya just love all the little name calling. Have you seen these guys photos? They look like skinny fuzzy pink faced Ned Beattys but a little thinner. They never saw Alaska and the zillion acres of bog. They think everyplace is just like Jacksonbunghole, Wyoming. LMAO.

 

[AKHighmark]

This Act states first and foremost that the mission of the National Wildlife Refuge System be focused singularly on wildlife conservation

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Where does development in Alaska harm wildlife? Look at caribou herd levels around Prudhoe Bay before development and now. How is development hurting wildlife. Give me a break and use your 2 brain cells for something.

 

[YourRoyalHighness]

AKHiMom,

So you are saying the Law's intent should not be followed, in order to allow you to be provided a job and a way to support your family and 800cc toys?

 

[BuzzH]

AKhighmark, just read what the act says, its pretty simple for even third graders. Can you point me to the part of the Refuge Administration act that says we must focus singularly on oil development in National Refuges.

You see, the reason for these acts and laws is to ensure that wildlife and land health does not take a back seat to your half-baked ideas. I know its hard for your mind to comprehend, but thankfully, you arent in charge of making these tough decisions. Thankfully, people in power have listened to the demands of the American Public and are forcing the USFWS, NWR system etc. to manage how they've been directed to manage.

It isnt blah, blah, blah...its the LAW, LAW, LAW...


Ringer, I've never seen alaska? Is that right?

Huh, because I can distinctly remember a certain record book white sheep in the Chugach Mountains that some tree-hugger from wyoming ran into one August day...

I wont bore you with the mountain of photos on a hunt for brown bear, halibut fishing, salmon fishing, caribou hunting, etc. etc. etc. that the same Wyoming hippie experienced in AK...

 

[YourRoyalHighness]

Buzz,

Nice sheep, and it embarrasses me so much that I won't post my pictures of Moose, Caribou, Bear, Salmon, Halibut that I have had the good fortune to take pictures of at the completion of my successful hunting and fishing trips to AK. And I won't post the pictures of the Thousands of $$$$ I have spread around the AK economy on my hunting and fishing trips... hump

But now I know what I missed, I should have been taking pictures of the Pipeline on my way to Manley Hot Springs instead of taking pictures of the Moose. And for hunting, instead of spending weeks in the Bush, I should have just climbed up on the pipeline and waited for Moose and Bears to come running up to the pipeline....

AKHiMom,
Can you tell me where Oil Development improved wildlife habitat???

 

[AKHighmark]

Have I talked down to you at any point in this debate? WTF is your problem?

 

[BuzzH]

YRH, thats why I went to AK...just to see the pipeline...

 

[BuzzH]

A debate is when two informed sides have differing opinions on a subject...this is a lesson in land management and natural resource policy...which may be too complicated for the party in need of the education to comprehend...

 

[YourRoyalHighness]

It was kind of funny though the one time I was up there.... Some Great White Hunter decided to take a poke at the pipe with the ol' Moose rifle. Sprayed oil all over the place until they got it plugged. Then they were trying to find the guy who poked it. So maybe the locals must think Pipeline hunting is better than Moose or 'Bou hunting....

 

[YourRoyalHighness]

A debate is when two informed sides have differing opinions on a subject...this is a lesson in land management and natural resource policy...which may be too complicated for the party in need of the education...

Buzz,

I spit soda out my nose all over my monitor.....

That was funny!!!

 

[BuzzH]

Hey, the truth hurts at times, almost as bad as the soda through the nose.

 

[AKHighmark]

Yeah... guess I wasted all those years of college. Thanks for the education.