DT Jr. on Meateater

[Ben Lamb]

Illegally?.....tundra trammelling? Did she slip across The 'eh' border? Do you have her mixed up the MO Bride?

Section 3110 or title 5 of the U.S. Code. Also known as the Bobby Kennedy Law. This administration flouts that statute.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

No hate coming from here, I will admit my post was 100% trolling.

Fair enough. Haha

 

[406dn]

Yes deflect drug use and banging ur brothers widow and others at the same time because you hate someone else so much. Those values definitely get U invited to the next family BBQ to.
All I did was state some facts about hunter biden. In no way defended others while stating facts. Your welcome to state your own on Don Jr. If u are so inclined.

Why trash Jr. when his dad has a graveyard full of skeletons in his closet. Name any other politician who has paid a porn star hush money. He was banging a porn star while his wife had just given birth to their son. Classy no doubt about it.

 

[noharleyyet]

Section 3110 or title 5 of the U.S. Code. Also known as the Bobby Kennedy Law. This administration flouts that statute.

Well hell Ben, she just needs some pointers from Hillary Winfrey...”you get an audience, and you get an audience, and you get an audience.”

 

[Big Fin]

I'm thinking this thread will also get closed when hunting season opens tomorrow. I can see it headed to the ditch in a hurry, probably a full on "no-seatbelts rollover upside down in the ditch" kind of wreck, before 6pm tonight.

Get it out of your system. Just wish the few nuggets, like Bambi just laid down, didn't get scraped as part of the demolition derby.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Why trash Jr. when his dad has a graveyard full of skeletons in his closet. Name any other politician who has paid a porn star hush money. He was banging a porn star while his wife had just given birth to their son. Classy no doubt about it.

No disagreeing from me its all disgusting. Im sure there is plenty of other politicians who have paid hush money tho while actually in office. Its a classy world all around in DC. Interns giving blowers and JFK doing God only knows what. Good times were and are had by all. Yeehaw!

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Thanks to research from wllm1313, I now can look more objectively at this without the DT Jr. nonsense. My concern is ultimately- if this happens how will we fix it when everything goes sideways? Made me think about Exxon Valdez as an example to how restoration could go.
I found this really comprehensive site provided by the State of AK.https://evostc.state.ak.us/

The economic impact has been valued at 2.8bil loss. Also got a lot of incidental employment out of this too. Like, some people got entire careers out of this oil spill. I stand with no mine because I expect a catastrophic failure with resultant harm to the fishery. AK needs revenue then how about income tax and sales tax like so many of us already pay?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Thanks, @Big Fin.

That's the kick I needed to get me back out of this one. There are far better things to do right now than argue with friends on the internet.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I'm thinking this thread will also get closed when hunting season opens tomorrow. I can see it headed to the ditch in a hurry, probably a full on "no-seatbelts rollover upside down in the ditch" kind of wreck, before 6pm tonight.

Get it out of your system. Just wish the few nuggets, like Bambi just laid down, didn't get scraped as part of the demolition derby.

Yea im probably slightly out of line. I need to move on from this one. Thanks for the info @Bambistew and @wllm1313

 

[JLS]

There are far better things to do right now than argue with friends on the internet.

I'm going to load the Tundra while I take my lunch break. You should do the same...

 

[JLS]

wish the few nuggets, like Bambi just laid down, didn't get scraped as part of the demolition derby.

Best part of the thread.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I don't like comparing industries, they are all needed, but when we say one is more important than the other it can get ugly quickly. The state is hurting right now, and there is no end in sight to the economic woes. When 90% of your state revenue is generated from oil/gas taxes we need to look for any all sources. I'd personally like to see the same royalty tax applied to all natural resources to include fish.

100% agree.

I was trying to figure out how much revenue commercial operations pay to the state but I couldn't find anything.
It is just a boat license and then they catch as much as they can? Do they pay anything for the fish?

 

[SAJ-99]

What I've seen, best estimate is that on a year/year basis the mine would provide about 60-70% of the economic interest as the BB fishing with about 15% of the employment. So on a per person employment value the mine is about 5 fold greater?

Finding facts on this is quite a challenge, it all depends on how you want to see them displayed and in what light. Those towns are a friggin ghost town for 46 weeks a year. Get in, get your $$$ and get the F out. 80% of the fishermen in the area live in other states. How does that benefit Alaska? They make their money and take it home with them, but they are quick to include those dollars in the total economics. There are tribal leaders on record stating they don't want their young people working good jobs such as mining/oil/gas because they would leave their communities. They would rather they continue to live in poverty@ 60-80% unemployment once those 8 weeks of fishing season is over. Easy to be against something when you 1, live off the government, or 2 don't live in the region (i.e. your comment as no benefit).

In terms of state revenue (i.e. taxes) The fishing industry costs the state money while the mining pays for itself about 5x over. Neither compare to oil, so it really doesn't matter, but the fact that the second largest industry in AK is subsidized by tax payes is Fd up. You would think that an industry that boasts a $6B economy would be able to cover operating costs ($120M/year) incurred by government... but politics and stuff. They are all starving fishermen if you ask them. If you think the oil industry is making a profit off natural resources, avert your eyes to fishing.

In terms of what it would mean to the region if the mine was put in, assuming that locals hold their nose and go work there. Take a look at Kotzebue. Red Dog mine is the largest employer in the region. People went from living off the government to making $100k a year, I think its about 4-450 native employees, and most live in the area. They are the single largest native employer on a percent basis, IIRC, second only to OG in the state. The mine pays something like $20M a year in (extortion) property tax to the region, while no other property tax is collected. Pebble would employ about 2-3x as many people.

I don't like comparing industries, they are all needed, but when we say one is more important than the other it can get ugly quickly. The state is hurting right now, and there is no end in sight to the economic woes. When 90% of your state revenue is generated from oil/gas taxes we need to look for any all sources. I'd personally like to see the same royalty tax applied to all natural resources to include fish.

Good post. Quick ?, What is the difference with fisherman living in other states and Northern Dynasty being Canadian? Just the royalty?
I agree that comparing any of these things on a monetary basis is almost impossible. No one has even mentioned how tax breaks/incentives impact each industry. The more complexity the more unintended consequences and the harder it is to unwind the mess. The societal problems of native AKs are no different that those of native WVs who work in coal mines. I’m not sure how to solve that problem. Even the mine is a only a one-generation solution. After that mine you need another and another to keep the system stable.

 

[BWALKER77]

So devil’s advocate argument here: how much proposed benefit to the locals and State would this operation offer? Everyone knows of the huge potential impact to the fishery. What are the economical arguments tendered by the mining officials to counter this? I admit to not seeking their point of view out as I see no benefit to AK.

My suspicion is that North Dynasty/ Pebble Partnership as operators, they are working to get the permit, which they will then flip to another company who will operate.
The current folks on the pebble team are going to make a boat load if and when the project gets the green light.

I also wonder if this mine is essentially a test case for a whole lot of folks to see if they can get a mine approved and if so more will follow.

Pure speculation... but that's kinda how private OG works, and per above the state needs like 50 pebble mine size operations, to keep the house of cards intact.

The company has said as much. Northern Dynasty is a exploration company, not a mining company.

 

[BWALKER77]

Good post. Quick ?, What is the difference with fisherman living in other states and Northern Dynasty being Canadian? Just the royalty?
I agree that comparing any of these things on a monetary basis is almost impossible. No one has even mentioned how tax breaks/incentives impact each industry. The more complexity the more unintended consequences and the harder it is to unwind the mess. The societal problems of native AKs are no different that those of native WVs who work in coal mines. I’m not sure how to solve that problem. Even the mine is a only a one-generation solution. After that mine you need another and another to keep the system stable.
[ /QUOTE]
For starters the employees of the mine, who will be making 100k plus a year will have to reside in Alaska. That means the money stays in the state.
It's also worth mentioning that it is Northern Dynasty's plan to bring in a major to do the actual mining.

 

[SAJ-99]

For starters the employees of the mine, who will be making 100k plus a year will have to reside in Alaska. That means the money stays in the state.
It's also worth mentioning that it is Northern Dynasty's plan to bring in a major to do the actual mining.

I think someone said there is no income tax or sales tax in AK, so figuring out how much revenue the new employees will bring into the state is impossible because it has to come from some other place, but I have no idea where that revenue would come from. Even "going into town" might generate revenue for the local businesses but doesn't help any citizen anywhere else for things like schools, infrastructure, etc. As has been pointed out, the way AK gets its revenue is unsustainable long term, but I could see residents seeing the mine (or O&G from ANWR) as a money tree. No reason to be against it if the check shows up periodically. People can justify away a lot of potential problems if they get paid.

BTW, a lot of employees who work in O&G on the north slope don't "reside" in the state, so even that can be debated. I guess it depends on the contract structure with the unions.

 

[MTGomer]

He was banging a porn star while his wife had just given birth to their son.

Isn’t it interesting how the most socially liberal president we’ve ever had is alt-right.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@Bambistew and @BWALKER77 before this one gets shutdown just wanted to thank you both for some good discussion. I always appreciate it when someone pushes me to do more research and think critically about a position.

 

[406dn]

Isn’t it interesting how the most socially liberal president we’ve ever had is alt-right.

I guess that's one way to look at it.

That would really make his favor with socially conservative Christians more interesting.

I don't see him as much socially liberal as I see him as Donald wants what Donald wants, when he wants it. If he was truly socially liberal, his positions on a wide range of issues would be different.

 

[Big Fin]

I'm thinking this thread will also get closed when hunting season opens tomorrow. I can see it headed to the ditch in a hurry, probably a full on "no-seatbelts rollover upside down in the ditch" kind of wreck, before 6pm tonight.

Get it out of your system. Just wish the few nuggets, like Bambi just laid down, didn't get scraped as part of the demolition derby.

Go hunting!