Dont worry about the student loan forgiveness

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With that said one of the biggest problems I see is the use of executive actions or orders. That chit needs to stop, kinda defeats the whole purpose. I'm too young to  really remember Bush but the last 3 have been pulling way to much of that. I would love to see the executive order be extremely restricted.
 
TwistedSage said:
With that said on of the biggest problems I see is the use of executive actions or orders. That chit needs to stop, kinda defeats the whole purpose. I'm too young to  really remember Bush but the last 3 have been pulling way to much of that. I would love to see the executive order be extremely restricted.
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as long as we are talking about dreams we have for government change. Congress and Senate Term limits please :)
 
neffa3 said:
I tried, I really did, but 12 pages after 1 day? I just can't. I made it through 7.

I think many, even the majority of active participants on here, claim to be independents or at least capable of individual thought on subjects. I have been "pro" many things offer by this administration. This isn't one. It doesn't actually help anyone in the long term. It's not teaching people to be wise with their money, to make rational, logical decisions, and it's not helping the economy.

I standby that the best way to get someone to vote R is to have a D in the charge, and vise versa. It seems no one is capable is making rational decisions that are supported but the silent (or quiet) middle majority.
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Yeah I'm not even going to try to much stupid R V. D rage which is pointless.

MTGomer said:
It’s not surprising that tuition increases at a rate that lenders are willing to loan for the service. Universities should be able to charge whatever, but that doesn’t mean the lender should give someone that egregious amount of money. If students can only borrow x amount, then logically universities would not raise tuition drastically beyond what their customers can pay.

I think it’s unlikely that government will be flexible and nimble enough to loan based on risk, value, likelihood of payback etc, which is what is needed to get this under control, and is why they shouldn’t be acting as a bank.
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@neffa3 All that being said MTGomer IMHO nailed it.

At the end of the day we all are going to have different opinions about resource allocation that's colored by our world view. Hopefully we can see past that a bit and acknowledge the fact that we are all part of this society, hopefully we all want the USA to succeed. I get that sounds pollyanna-ish but I feel like in the last decades both parties have lost sight of the big picture in their rhetoric.

Anyway, we need nurses, cops, firefighters... the pandemic showed up how important in person learning with competent teachers is for a myriad of reasons. It also showed us how vital truck divers, meat packers, and a whole host of other jobs are to keep our society on the rails. The antagonism between various jobs is stupid.

Student loans are a mechanism to provide the necessary training and education to folks so they can fulfil crucial rolls in our society. Though they aren't the only way, I think public K-12 is pretty damn popular and in the history and in the world today it's not the absolute standard... aka Africa, 1800s, etc. Some countries also do some free post high school training for their citizens, I think that's a big competitive advantage for those countries.

Point being there are lots of ways to meet the goal.

I like MTGomer's post because they are hitting at what's important, what is the problem and how do we fix it.

What is a bit sad is that this thread like the current discourse is going to focus on the $10,000, but IMHO it's the least interesting piece of the announcement.

The changes to the IDR plan are huge, and have the potential to improve our system. That's what people should be talking about but I bet most people won't even notice them, these changes are far and away more important than the 10k.

1661444436475.png

That being said I think these changes are only 1/2 of the equation, to @MTGomer's point we need to fix the other side which is the egregious cost of education.

1. No for profit colleges, period
2. No private student loans
3. Keep and possibly lower current cap on federal student loans, though tie they to CPI so they keep up with inflation.

Colleges have for decades been in a war to build the best resort to attract the best candidates, we need to stop providing them a stream of money so they make value ie $ the best way to attract future students.
 
wllm said:
Yeah I'm not even going to try to much stupid R V. D rage which is pointless.



@neffa3 All that being said MTGomer IMHO nailed it.

At the end of the day we all are going to have different opinions about resource allocation that's colored by our world view. Hopefully we can see past that a bit and acknowledge the fact that we are all part of this society, hopefully we all want the USA to succeed. I get that sounds pollyanna-ish but I feel like in the last decades both parties have lost sight of the big picture in their rhetoric.

Anyway, we need nurses, cops, firefighters... the pandemic showed up how important in person learning with competent teachers is for a myriad of reasons. It also showed us how vital truck divers, meat packers, and a whole host of other jobs are to keep our society on the rails. The antagonism between various jobs is stupid.

Student loans are a mechanism to provide the necessary training and education to folks so they can fulfil crucial rolls in our society. Though they aren't the only way, I think public K-12 is pretty damn popular and in the history and in the world today it's not the absolute standard... aka Africa, 1800s, etc. Some countries also do some free post high school training for their citizens, I think that's a big competitive advantage for those countries.

Point being there are lots of ways to meet the goal.

I like MTGomer's post because they are hitting at what's important, what is the problem and how do we fix it.

What is a bit sad is that this thread like the current discourse is going to focus on the $10,000, but IMHO it's the least interesting piece of the announcement.

The changes to the IDR plan are huge, and have the potential to improve our system. That's what people should be talking about but I bet most people won't even notice them, these changes are far and away more important than the 10k.

View attachment 235745

That being said I think these changes are only 1/2 of the equation, to @MTGomer's point we need to fix the other side which is the egregious cost of education.

1. No for profit colleges, period
2. No private student loans
3. Keep and possibly lower current cap on federal student loans, though tie they to CPI so they keep up with inflation.

Colleges have for decades been in a war to build the best resort to attract the best candidates, we need to stop providing them a stream of money so they make value ie $ the best way to attract future students.
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See, I think those changes make the problem worse. They make borrowers less accountable for the financial choices they make. Maybe this is a point we I lean the furthest right, but we need less people going to college and more people learning how to actually do things. I know you've pointed out how much more important is it to effectively worth with electronics and software, but by BIL simply can't find any concrete workers willing to redo a pad at his house. They simply aren't doing residential work of less than XXk sq ft, or even taking on "new clients" at all. He has offered an obscene amount of money and still can't get takers.
 
jryoung said:

Executive Orders | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu www.presidency.ucsb.edu
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Damn that's wild. TR didn't play around. I stand by my statement, government does not need to move that fast. Changes need to be voted on. How will we ever find out the true impact of anything if they just keep overwriting each other EO every few years. Obama and Trump were just about equal, although Trump was only in 4 years. Biden may be on pace to match Trump. Of course everything volatile we can't keep up with the changes.
 
neffa3 said:
See, I think those changes make the problem worse. They make borrowers less accountable for the financial choices they make. Maybe this is a point we I lean the furthest right, but we need less people going to college and more people learning how to actually do things. I know you've pointed out how much more important is it to effectively worth with electronics and software, but by BIL simply can't find any concrete workers willing to redo a pad at his house. They simply aren't doing residential work of less than XXk sq ft, or even taking on "new clients" at all. He has offered an obscene amount of money and still can't get takers.
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Tell him to find out one of the employees number and ask about a side job. Some bosses will let thier employees use equipment on weekends. Worth an ask. Sorry total derail,
 
longbow51 said:
Y'all let me know the final answer. I'm going to go make my green chili stew.
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Agreed, I think my time is better spent looking at how bad of a season my Pokes are about to have with the opener against Illinois slated for this Saturday!
 
neffa3 said:
See, I think those changes make the problem worse. They make borrowers less accountable for the financial choices they make. Maybe this is a point we I lean the furthest right, but we need less people going to college and more people learning how to actually do things. I know you've pointed out how much more important is it to effectively worth with electronics and software, but by BIL simply can't find any concrete workers willing to redo a pad at his house. They simply aren't doing residential work of less than XXk sq ft, or even taking on "new clients" at all. He has offered an obscene amount of money and still can't get takers.
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It's a familiar story these days......

I agree that antagonism between career paths is misguided and pointless. I also see a valuable place for higher education. But man, are we getting into a tough spot in the blue collar world, and very few people are working on solutions, it seems.
 
I hope everyone was B******* this much when we gave billions to the big banks, or when we bailed out the auto industry, or when we gave away billions through covid relief with essentially no oversight that all ended up in the hands of those who needed money the least.
 
neffa3 said:
I'm leaning more toward youtube...
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I learned a lot watching the guys that just did my house lol. I'm sure it could be done just depends on the size of the slab. At a certain point you will need enough people that know what thier doing to finish it before it dries. If it's not too big I'm sure yall could get it done. If you have to buy more than a pallet of quickrete/ order a truck I'd say probably find some guys.
 
TwistedSage said:
I learned a lot watching the guys that just did my house lol. I'm sure it could be done just depends on the size of the slab. At a certain point you will need enough people that know what thier doing to finish it before it dries. If it's not too big I'm sure yall could get it done. If you have to buy more than a pallet of quickrete/ order a truck I'd say probably find some guys.
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Just had a 19x54 ft slab poured. Took 4 guys and 2 gnarly machines( had the whole crew on thier time off) from pour until they were done was about 3.5-4 hrs and it was a race, almost getting too dry before the finish. It was pretty amazing.
 
neffa3 said:
this is a point we I lean the furthest right,
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HA, the concept that this is a right v. left thing

I hate our politics... just all of it.

neffa3 said:
See, I think those changes make the problem worse. They make borrowers less accountable for the financial choices they make. Maybe this is a point we I lean the furthest right, but we need less people going to college and more people learning how to actually do things. I know you've pointed out how much more important is it to effectively worth with electronics and software, but by BIL simply can't find any concrete workers willing to redo a pad at his house. They simply aren't doing residential work of less than XXk sq ft, or even taking on "new clients" at all. He has offered an obscene amount of money and still can't get takers.
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We need to figure out how to distribute labor to all kinds of sectors, construction is vital we all feel that looking at prices.

Now I won't even pretend like I have a bead on the construction industry, but I struggle with the concept that someone who went to college to become a teacher in a different universe is hanging drywall. I also would bet every dollar in my bank account that there are bottlenecks in the trades that have absolutely nothing to do with student loans.

I mean if it was as simple as jumping into construction and making bank folks would be doing it, I'm sure @noharleyyet could tease that one out for us, but I bet I couldn't tomorrow just switch to concrete work and start making bank... I bet even if I was willing to do skut work for 5 years before I made bank that there would be some huge barriers to entry, getting loans/buying equipment/ taking on risk of changing markets/regulations/ domination of the industry by family firms?

Anyway, we need lots of different types of labor, I think we both agree that there are lots of pinch points and places where we need folks. We also both agree that the current system wastes a lot of talent putting too many folks into degrees with too few jobs.

One of my close college friends was an art history major... she works for Sotheby's and probably brings home 2x what my wife and I make combined, but there isn't room in that industry for 99% of the folks that come out of school with that degree. Now some of those skills carry over, you learn how to write/ make presentations/ do research which can be applicable in a number of industries...so maybe room for another 10% of those majors... but still it's a problematic distribution of labor.
 
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How do you give 17/18 year old kids a reality check as they're about to graduate, after they spent the last 12 years being told they can be anything they want to be? In reality you need to find something you can make money doing while trying to balance that with work you don't hate. Edit: the answer is that needs to happen at home

My cousin initially wanted to go to school for psychology, I'll never forget my uncle telling him sure Keegan that sounds like a great idea, I heard there's a new psychology store opening up in town.

There is a crap ton of money to be made just as a handyman or remodeling houses/doing small projects for people right now. Crazy shortage in skilled labor and people who want to upgrade everything.
 
brocksw said:
I hope everyone was B******* this much when we gave billions to the big banks, or when we bailed out the auto industry, or when we gave away billions through covid relief with essentially no oversight that all ended up in the hands of those who needed money the least.
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I was. The “well look what they did” argument I find very incriminating. That goes for both sides
 
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