Does this thing make my azz look fat?

[JoseCuervo]

Fair Chase,

A couple of other things work pretty well, besides the bullet in the block, assuming you don't want to waste the money on Solids. Most of the hunting bullets expand to quickly for engine blocks. You need a good quality Solid to do the job correctly. A handful of dirt in the tank will slow them down, or, if you have time, put sand in the crank.

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

Hey blew hare,
Do the pictures above show ''statistically negligible'' destruction? And if you don't mind me asking , do you really have blue hair? (in Nevada a blue hair is an old lady who sits in a casino and plays bingo all day , usually married to a 'pantshitter' ).

 

[bluehair]

Originally posted by Ithaca 37:
Quit bothering me with all those facts. If you add up the combined land area of all the planets and stars in the universe, the amount of land damaged by ATVs is statistically negligible.

I like statistically negligible almost as much as FC's "saturated with absence".

Like I said, it isn't as big a problem around here as it is in some other places. Y'all figger it out before it get's MORE out of hand, k?

And yes, I have blue hair. I also drive like one.

Thanks for asking FC. You guys hunt in October? Weird. That's when I drive my atv's around in the hills, or go fishin. The aspens are purty that time of year.

But, we aren't blazin any new trails here. You guys keep fighting the good fight.

 

[Oak]

Here's some of the "statistically negligible" ATV damage bluehair is talking about in CO.

Oak

Illegal-Vehicle Use Tearing Up Forests
By Theo Stein
Denver Post Environment Writer

Aug. 29, 2000 - BOULDER - Forest Service officials struggling to cope with extreme damage from off-road vehicle use in Boulder's Left Hand Canyon say a spaghetti network of steep, deeply rutted and illegal routes carved into the landscape will cost about $1 million to repair.

The situation is similar in other forests statewide, as trail planners, resource managers and enforcement officers try to reconcile declining budgets, erosion and overmatched law enforcement officers with an explosive growth in use.

"I know of three to five other areas that could look like this in five years," said District Ranger Christine Walsh, head of the U.S. Forest Service's Boulder office. "It's a memorable public lands experience, though not exactly one I'm proud of."

Forest Service staffers met Monday with conservationists, concerned citizens and off-road vehicle advocates in a "meadow" carved up by illegal trails, hoping to find some common ground.

"This is unacceptable to me personally, professionally, to the Forest Service," said Steve Deitemeyer, director of recreation services for the Forest Service's Rocky Mountain Region.

Complaints about renegade off-road vehicle use have erupted across Colorado this decade as all-terrain vehicle and dirt bike registrations surged from 11,700 to more than 55,000.

The Forest Service estimates that 600 to 1,000 miles of unofficial, user-created roads and trails mark the Routt National Forest. Another 500 miles of unapproved routes cross the White River National Forest.

It cost the Forest Service tens of thousands of dollars to repair damage in the Pike-San Isabel National Forest's Rampart Range. Forest managers recently shut down a 3-mile motocross loop constructed near Interstate 70. And muddy water from upstream offroad vehicle use left the town of Jamestown with higher watertreatment costs. Vehicle use has been at the center of the state debate over President Clinton's roadless initiative.

The widespread conflicts have prompted a sharp backlash from conservation groups, who see offroad vehicles as the main threat to the ecological integrity of the southern Rockies ecosystem. Some groups say they should be banned wherever monitoring and enforcement programs are not fully funded.

"It's a very different use of the land than we've seen before," said Roz McClellan, executive director of the Rocky Mountain Recreation Initiative. "We're saturating the backcountry." Forest Service staff and volunteers like Gene King of the Colorado Association of Four Wheel Drive Vehicles have tried to repair the damage done in Left Hand Canyon.

King said his group this year has cleaned up an illegal shooting range within yards of Left Hand Canyon Drive twice. But several thousand spent shells, a shot-up refrigerator, a perforated metal post, and the tattered remnant of a state highway sign were visible Monday.

Recreation planner Martha Moran and others posted trail signs on April 30 separating the designated routes from illegal ones running across steeply pitched meadows. Vandals tore down the signs that afternoon. Walsh said fences and signs have to be installed three times before vandals leave them alone.

That kind of behavior drives conservationists up a tree and frustrates people like King, who advocate for responsible motor-vehicle use of the forests. "What you see in Left Hand Canyon," he said, "we're not happy with that at all."

 

[Ithaca 37]

Quit bothering me with all those facts. If you add up the combined land area of all the planets and stars in the universe, the amount of land damaged by ATVs is statistically negligible.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"frustrates people like King, who advocate for responsible motor-vehicle use of the forests. "

Whats this!!!!!!!!
responsible motor-vehicle use in the forests???
According to some poster's that's NOT POSSABLE.
So the only answer is a total ban?
If so how do we counter that same thought process with the anti-firearm people that all firearms need to be banned because they believe that anyone owning one is out there to break the law.

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

MD4ME
Responsible use of vehicles in the forest is absolutely possible just like the responsible use of firearms.You don't go out into the forests and shoot everything you can do you?
Then why go out into the forests and drive anywhere you can?

 

[Muledeer4me]

Fairchaseben, Thats the point !!!!
I don't go driving all over the place and most of the people I know dont either.
Yet we have poster's trying to lump every ATV owner under the same lable.
If we allow ourself to follow that line of thinking (on the ATV issue) then Im asking ,how do we counter that when telling the anti-firearm groups that not ALL firearm owners are out shoot anything that moves?

It makes more sense to me to come down HARD on the offenders ,while admitting that we do have a problem and working towards finding a soultion.
Not trying to tear down other good people that share many of your same view's on hunting & ATV's.

This blanket statment trying to cover everyone just doesn't cut it.

 

[Ten Bears]

FCB

You don't go out into the forests and shoot everything you can do you?

Further evidence included a video of the scene filmed by Hudson. "The cassette in part shows several dead elk, a crippled calf elk and audio comments indicating that poaching is illegal and the heinous nature of killing of the elk by poachers,"

http://www.huntandlodge.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=002371

 

[ELKCHSR]

There are pigs in every walk... I have found beer cans that could only have been placed there by some one on foot, just a week or so ago, I picked up a ton of trash (figurativly speaking) from horse men...Had to be that or it was the horses themselves since that was the only tracks in the snow and the trash was fresh. I see garbage along every trail I travel and dirt road I've wandered. These are the individuals that need the hammering, not make a blanket statement of the whole group. Every group has their wrong doers and no one including the Earth Firsters or the Rainbow coalition is safe from these individuals...
Those that think the human race needs to cleanse itself, needs to start with yourself. Other wise it's just hypocritical.
And yes, the damage in context of the planet is very miniscule. I can show more pictures of undamaged lakes, fields and expanses than you can of "Illeagle" damage, and mine won't be the exceptions to the rule...

 

[bluehair]

Originally posted by Ten Bears:
FCB </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />You don't go out into the forests and shoot everything you can do you?

Further evidence included a video of the scene filmed by Hudson. "The cassette in part shows several dead elk, a crippled calf elk and audio comments indicating that poaching is illegal and the heinous nature of killing of the elk by poachers,"

http://www.huntandlodge.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=002371 </font>[/QUOTE] Hunters = poachers = ban them.

Sorry, I'm a little slow today.

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

I'm trying not to make blanket statements about ATV users , as I've said before I have used ATV's and they're not the problem.So when I say ''LAZY SLOB HUNTERS'' apparently I'm not talking to anyone on this website, including old bluehare , who I don't believe would 'ravage' any of those places in his photos.
HOWEVER , I have seen way too many areas destroyed by quad trails , most built in the last five years or so , by inconsiderate slob hunters.Believe me when I tell you it's coming soon to a state near you! What do you think the slobs do when they f-up an area? quit hunting? NO they find new areas to f-up.
Isn't saying it's O.K.to ride quads off-road because it's ''statistically negligable''like saying it's O.K. to litter because it's ''statistically negligable''.One more new quad trail is too many for me.When your favorite area gets turned into a spaghetti bowl maybe you guys will appreciate my crusade.

 

[Ten Bears]

Hunters = poachers = ban them.

That's the same as saying:
semiauto firearms = bad people = ban all firearms.
Just as ridiculous as baning all ATV's from all OUR public lands.

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

Ten Beers
Let me make this as simple as I can so you get it too;
ATV's off road = no hunting future = bad
ATV's on road = hunting good many moons = good

 

[bluehair]

Originally posted by FAIRCHASEBEN:
apparently I'm not talking to anyone on this website, including old bluehare , who I don't believe would 'ravage' any of those places in his photos.

Why, thanks Ben. That's the nicest thing you've said about me.

Maybe you are insightful. I'm sitting here thinking, and I don't ever recall hunting from an ATV (prairie poodles excepted). I'm not even sure how you would do that. I think I've only used mine once to pack a critter out. Around here, I do use it to wander around on old mining roads that are grown in or otherwise too rocky to make civilized travel comfortable. Wouldn't want to tear all that bling off my truck.

My beef isn't with restricting their use by hunters during hunting season, rather with "banning" them from public lands. Around my parts (which is a world away from the country CO Oak references), this takes a fair amount of public access off of the table because these old roads through uranium country are not really suitable for most common 4x4's. Besides that, is it better to force weekenders to take their powerstrokes into the boonies when a quad makes for a more enjoyable day and probably does less damage to the designated road? I suppose it is if the ultimate goal is to restrict public access to public lands.

TB, I didn't mean to equate all hunters with poachers. From the links you posted, I thought you were illustrating that in the same way all atv riders were being labeled as abusers, all hunters could as easily be grouped in with the bad actors. Certainly not my position.

 

[Oak]

Bluehair, it sounds like you are only asking that ATV's be allowed on roads that are legally open to passenger vehicles (whether or not the vehicle can do it). If that's the case, I don't think you'd get many arguments from the anti-ATV crowd here.

Oak

 

[Wapiti Slayer]

I'm pretty sure Ithaca would still have something to bitch about!

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nope.

 

[Wapiti Slayer]

Originally posted by Ithaca 37:
Nope.

But what about the FAT ASS ATV riders riding on the roads? You seem to lump all ATV riders together from every post I've read! $*)Q!#@$ make up yer mind, ya want them all banned or limited use? I agree there needs to limited access and more regulation of ATV use. But you and yer buddies say all ATVs destroy everything and need to be banned as yer sig line states!

 

[Washington Hunter]

WS, I think Ithaca and some others simply take an extreme viewpoint, so when there is a compromise made, they get something they can live with.