JoseCuervo
New member
Del,
At least you got your answer to the question, yes, it is true, all ATV riders break the law.
At least you got your answer to the question, yes, it is true, all ATV riders break the law.
Do you guys really believe that all ATV riders break the law?
- Thread starter Delw
- Start date
cjcj
New member
Thats easy, but why can`t you see it? The state of AZ and the AZ G&F have made it legal, its on page 73 of the AZ state G&F regs. and it has always been this way, if it changes i will let you know, but for now you anti-whatevers will just have to live with the facts {A.R.S. 17-454] i didn`t ever say what lands are or are not covered, and i do not have to pin it down to anything/state land/blm/national forest/ national park/citypark/county park/indian res. etc. MY statment stands as true and correct and legal. you can try to read into or however you want but my original statement is a fact [on its own]. I have to go visit a friend [his mom died today] so he said he needs me to cheer him up, but if you want to beat this dead horse some more, it will have to be later. P.S. didn`t me you and Buzz/Ithaca have a discussion about this last year? remember the topic something about who uses a vehicle to pickup elk, Buzz showed a pic of his Grandfather and a story of how he still hikes, anyway i wasn`t the only one who said they had used a vehicle to pick up downed game,and some were from other states, but now you guys seem to doubt that it can be done legally, oh well i gotta go, get your rebutel together and i will cross examine later
Delw
Member
Well I guess you fall into the law breaker catogory also then since you own them. you said so yourself
Delw
JoseCuervo
New member
CJ,
Try reading page 69 of the CURRENT AZ hunting regulations....
http://www.azgfd.org/pdfs/h_f/fall_hunt_regs.pdf
Try reading page 69 of the CURRENT AZ hunting regulations....
http://www.azgfd.org/pdfs/h_f/fall_hunt_regs.pdf
It looks like you and Del would both be best served by doing a bit of checking with the Land Agencies before you get lumped in with the other 99% ATV riders who break the law....
Delw
Member
Elkgunner, it wouldnt serve me at all, cause if I am going to do it I would just check with the game and fish officer that is in the area Since I would only use mine to retrieve my game off the road.
Other than that I ride on roads that are legal to be ridden on.
your no better than most of the self centered bass fishermen here in AZ and across most of the US, see they whine and complain about jetskies and how all jet skie and ski boaters break the laws, funny thing though on a resent report via game and fish 60% of the tickets were from fishermen.
you and they look for any excuess to blame everyone, this is not true there are quite a few people who ride atvs dirtbikes and 4x4s that dont break the law.
If idaho is anything like AZ most of the atv people are not hunters they are just people driving there atv's I would say 10% of the people on atvs here in a AZ are hunters if that. The rest are recreational users of ATV's and have nothing to do with hunting what so ever.
so to say all atv riding hunters are breaking the law, is basically just you being biased nothing more.
Delw
Other than that I ride on roads that are legal to be ridden on.
your no better than most of the self centered bass fishermen here in AZ and across most of the US, see they whine and complain about jetskies and how all jet skie and ski boaters break the laws, funny thing though on a resent report via game and fish 60% of the tickets were from fishermen.
you and they look for any excuess to blame everyone, this is not true there are quite a few people who ride atvs dirtbikes and 4x4s that dont break the law.
If idaho is anything like AZ most of the atv people are not hunters they are just people driving there atv's I would say 10% of the people on atvs here in a AZ are hunters if that. The rest are recreational users of ATV's and have nothing to do with hunting what so ever.
so to say all atv riding hunters are breaking the law, is basically just you being biased nothing more.
Delw
JoseCuervo
New member
Del,
Do you honestly believe the game and fish officer has the authority to allow you to travel cross-country on your ATV, on Federal Lands?
Do you understand who has jurisdiction over the travel on Federal Lands? Why would you not check with the agency with jurisdiction?
Again, not picking on you, but I think you see the pattern about ATV riders, and no matter how much "edjumacation" (see page 69 of YOUR regs), the ATV crowd refuses to take responsibility for their actions/lawbreaking.
Delw
Member
lets get something straight before you get all side tracked again.
we all no its illegal to go cross country in a vehicle and atv in certain areas( some CO places a few years ago let you ride them on marked trails, grand mesa was one and so was white river),
my answer is this.
they are not the authority to allow you to travel to pick up game,
However they know if it is legal, since they are the ones righting the tickets for such a problem when people just drive off road.
If they say yes you can, then yup you can, if they say no then its no.
I am not worried about being picked on, I enjoy watching people take one group of people and say that that group of people all break the law. but yet they have one and its ok for them.
Just like the anti handgun crowd, and the anti SUV crowd.
I dont know what ATV crowd your talking about and really dont care, if you get a ticket you get a ticket plain and simple. just like people who drive Fast cars on the streets not all are law breakers not all break the speed limit so do we need to outlaw camaro clubs, mustang clubs etc? becuase a few break the laws.
Delw
we all no its illegal to go cross country in a vehicle and atv in certain areas( some CO places a few years ago let you ride them on marked trails, grand mesa was one and so was white river),
if your asking about to retrieve game.
my answer is this.
they are not the authority to allow you to travel to pick up game,
However they know if it is legal, since they are the ones righting the tickets for such a problem when people just drive off road.
If they say yes you can, then yup you can, if they say no then its no.
I am not worried about being picked on, I enjoy watching people take one group of people and say that that group of people all break the law. but yet they have one and its ok for them.
Just like the anti handgun crowd, and the anti SUV crowd.
I dont know what ATV crowd your talking about and really dont care, if you get a ticket you get a ticket plain and simple. just like people who drive Fast cars on the streets not all are law breakers not all break the speed limit so do we need to outlaw camaro clubs, mustang clubs etc? becuase a few break the laws.
Delw
JoseCuervo
New member
Del,
If they (I assume you mean AZGFD) are not the authority, then how do you believe " If they say yes you can, then yup you can, if they say no then its no" ?
Do you think the FS LEO would care what some game warden told you? And what about a non-hunter who just got wrote up for riding the same place as you???
I think your first statement was accurate "we all no its illegal to go cross country in a vehicle and atv".
Just out of curiousity, what is yours (and CJ's) phobia about actually checking with the proper authority?
Your original question was "Do all?" and based upon your's and CJ's responses, it would appear the answer is "yes", and even better, you don't care to correct the problem.
That is why people are now calling for BANs, as too many ATV riders know it is ok for THEM to travel off-road.
JoseCuervo
New member
CFree,
On who's land is it "perfectly legal", and how do you reconcile that with page 69 of YOUR regulations?
Ithaca 37
New member
cfree and everybody else, I just called AZGF at the # cfree provided and the lady who answered first told me it was OK to retrive game anywhere with a vehicle, then she said "as long as the driver is being carefull not to damage anything and uses the most direct route".
I then read her some of the regulations posted by EG. She said she'd have to put me on "hold" and get a ruling from her enforcement officer.
She came back and said all regulations concerning off road vehicle use were decided by the individual land use agency----meaning FS, BLM, or State land Agency. She went on to say that regulations might vary in different National Forests.
It was clear that until I questioned her answer to me, she had no idea of the complexity of the issue and had been giving out incorrect info to anyone who had ever asked about off road vehicle use.
She did finally admit (reluctantly, because she was starting to realize she didn't know what the hell she was talking about) that AZGF has NO authority to regulate vehicle use-----it's up to the land use agency.
I told her that the whole issue was extremely confusing and she admitted it was and all she could advise me to do was check with the individual agencies.
I can see where all the confusion comes from, but it looks to me like off road vehicle use FOR ANY PURPOSE is illegal on FS, BLM and State Lands in AZ unless an exception is listed for a particular area.
And if I were hunting in AZ I sure wouldn't ask anybody from AZGF where I could drive a vehicle. I'd go to the land use agency for the final ruling.
I then read her some of the regulations posted by EG. She said she'd have to put me on "hold" and get a ruling from her enforcement officer.
She came back and said all regulations concerning off road vehicle use were decided by the individual land use agency----meaning FS, BLM, or State land Agency. She went on to say that regulations might vary in different National Forests.
It was clear that until I questioned her answer to me, she had no idea of the complexity of the issue and had been giving out incorrect info to anyone who had ever asked about off road vehicle use.
She did finally admit (reluctantly, because she was starting to realize she didn't know what the hell she was talking about) that AZGF has NO authority to regulate vehicle use-----it's up to the land use agency.
I told her that the whole issue was extremely confusing and she admitted it was and all she could advise me to do was check with the individual agencies.
I can see where all the confusion comes from, but it looks to me like off road vehicle use FOR ANY PURPOSE is illegal on FS, BLM and State Lands in AZ unless an exception is listed for a particular area.
And if I were hunting in AZ I sure wouldn't ask anybody from AZGF where I could drive a vehicle. I'd go to the land use agency for the final ruling.
BuzzH
Well-known member
cj said, "Sorry lawman but you and Buzz have lost this one. It is and has always been legal to retrieve deer/elk/lopes offroad in AZ and thats a fact jack"
I just wish I would have bet cj some coin...Not really, it would be like taking candy from a baby.
CJ, the fact is, you cant travel wherever you want to retrieve big animals in Arizona, and that is the ONLY fact....Jack.
I'll give my buddy Frank (AZ Game Warden) a call tonight and see what he says.
I just wish I would have bet cj some coin...Not really, it would be like taking candy from a baby.
CJ, the fact is, you cant travel wherever you want to retrieve big animals in Arizona, and that is the ONLY fact....Jack.
I'll give my buddy Frank (AZ Game Warden) a call tonight and see what he says.
feclnogn
New member
So it would be up to the land agency to enforce this right?? We ran into a problem a few years ago in unit 23 in NM with four wheelers going places where there were no trails except for the ones they were making as they plowed through the meadows, these problems resulted in me almost getting in a fight and another gentleman who is a former federal agent having a pistol round fired over his head. We brought this up with a game warden and he said there was nothing he could really do about the off road use of the four wheeler because that was an enforcement issue with the forrest service and he also stated that the forest service did not have the time or resources to enforce this stuff.
JoseCuervo
New member
Hey CFree,
Do you still need somebody else to call for you or was Ithica's call enough??? It is obvious that all of the Fat-Assed ATV riders in Arizona are law breakers, based upon Del, CJ, and Cfree's comments....
Hey Buzz,
You are right about "taking candy from a baby"... It was funny to see the AZ boys arguing that the fish cops had jurisidiction on land use. And even funnier was their insisting that they don't even need to bother checking with the Agency in charge.
Ithica,
I have to disagree with you about this "whole issue being extremely confusing". Page 69 of the AZ regs clearly says that you have to check with the Agency.
Remember, if we can just "edjumacate" the Fat-Assed crowd, all will be solved. Well here have "edjumacation" on page 69, and guess what, the Fat-Assed crowd ignores it....
Do you still need somebody else to call for you or was Ithica's call enough??? It is obvious that all of the Fat-Assed ATV riders in Arizona are law breakers, based upon Del, CJ, and Cfree's comments....
Hey Buzz,
You are right about "taking candy from a baby"... It was funny to see the AZ boys arguing that the fish cops had jurisidiction on land use. And even funnier was their insisting that they don't even need to bother checking with the Agency in charge.
Ithica,
I have to disagree with you about this "whole issue being extremely confusing". Page 69 of the AZ regs clearly says that you have to check with the Agency.
Remember, if we can just "edjumacate" the Fat-Assed crowd, all will be solved. Well here have "edjumacation" on page 69, and guess what, the Fat-Assed crowd ignores it....
JoseCuervo
New member
Fecl,
You are almost right. Generally the Feds (FS, BLM, etc) would enforce the trespass / illegal ATV use, while the State fish cops would enforce the Hunting violations.
On State land, depending on state law, and who has been deputized for what, you could have State game wardens enforcing the law against the Fat-Assed crowd.
Idaho is trying to solve this issue with the laws prohibiting hunting while on an ATV, and we are defining hunting as carrying a weapon, a tag, and being in an open season. Then, when the Game warden sees the ATV, he cites the guy for hunting, and does not care who's public land he is on. (Private land is another matter.)
You are almost right. Generally the Feds (FS, BLM, etc) would enforce the trespass / illegal ATV use, while the State fish cops would enforce the Hunting violations.
On State land, depending on state law, and who has been deputized for what, you could have State game wardens enforcing the law against the Fat-Assed crowd.
Idaho is trying to solve this issue with the laws prohibiting hunting while on an ATV, and we are defining hunting as carrying a weapon, a tag, and being in an open season. Then, when the Game warden sees the ATV, he cites the guy for hunting, and does not care who's public land he is on. (Private land is another matter.)
feclnogn
New member
This is the only way to get the four wheelers under control. One of the things I would like to see here in NM is that if you are on a four wheeler during hunting season and you are hunting you must have your gun unloaded and in a closed case. This was passed on to a former game commish and he told my dad that was racist and the ranchers would come out against it.
I have no idea what logic he was using when he said that.Delw
Member
Ithaca's right its a confusing issue here in the state of AZ,
AZG&f can and will write tickets for off road use violations while I dont know there exact athuority I do believe what they say. and yes I could take that to court and it would be used.
They are the ones that are in the units and on the properties so they pretty much know whats legal and whats not.
I belive but not 100% sure that Azg&f is the ones who licence the atvs, again I am not sure cause I dont own one, this might be why they can write tickets.
Ive seen them talk about it on there TV show from time to time and they also have said you can only use one offroad to retrieve game and to make sure check with the GAME UNIT manager before doing so.
Elkgunner, too bad if you disagree, you seem to disagree with pretty much everything anyone says, and when you have an issue with it you tend to put words into peoples mouths .
I would tend to believe what buzz and Ithaca says about this issue before you, for the reasons above.
Delw
AZG&f can and will write tickets for off road use violations while I dont know there exact athuority I do believe what they say. and yes I could take that to court and it would be used.
They are the ones that are in the units and on the properties so they pretty much know whats legal and whats not.
I belive but not 100% sure that Azg&f is the ones who licence the atvs, again I am not sure cause I dont own one, this might be why they can write tickets.
Ive seen them talk about it on there TV show from time to time and they also have said you can only use one offroad to retrieve game and to make sure check with the GAME UNIT manager before doing so.
Elkgunner, too bad if you disagree, you seem to disagree with pretty much everything anyone says, and when you have an issue with it you tend to put words into peoples mouths .
I would tend to believe what buzz and Ithaca says about this issue before you, for the reasons above.
Delw
No more calls will be necessary. That will suffice.
It is legal to retrieve game on state land per page 2 of the attached url. Arizona Game & Fish ATV Brochure
Both the BLM and the Tonto National Forest referred me back to the game and fish department. So who enforces this law?
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