Damn dams dammit

[Irrelevant]

Until recently we thought our hatchery supplementation plan was working.

WDFW still does.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

You can find arguments on both sides of this issue. They were installed for a reason and there was some benefit to building/having the dams. If they are to be eliminated without preserving the original intent or benefit, then the reason they were installed is lost and the time and money spent on them is basically for nothing.
It is in everyone's best interest to find a solution that can mitigate all concerns, or at least minimize the impact. Smart people can surely devise a plan to meat this requirement. Just need to leave big money, bad politics, and hear say personal opinions out of it.

 

[Schism]

I'm currently reading, Cadillac Desert: The American West and Its Disappearing Water by Marc Reisner. For those of you interested in dams built in the West, I have found it to be a very interesting read thus far.

Thanks to @BuzzH for recommending the book on this forum some time ago.

 

[BWALKER77]

I'm currently reading, Cadillac Desert: The American West and Its Disappearing Water by Marc Reisner. For those of you interested in dams built in the West, I have found it to be a very interesting read thus far.

Thanks to @BuzzH for recommending the book on this forum some time ago.

Great book.

 

[BWALKER77]

I'm fine with removing the dams. They can easily be replaced with a few coal plants.

 

[Irrelevant]

You can find arguments on both sides of this issue. They were installed for a reason and there was some benefit to building/having the dams. If they are to be eliminated without preserving the original intent or benefit, then the reason they were installed is lost and the time and money spent on them is basically for nothing.
It is in everyone's best interest to find a solution that can mitigate all concerns, or at least minimize the impact. Smart people can surely devise a plan to meat this requirement. Just need to leave big money, bad politics, and hear say personal opinions out of it.

Reason = publicly subsidized grain transportation.
Solution = publicly subsidized grain transportation (rail).

 

[BrentD]

I'm fine with removing the dams. They can easily be replaced with a few coal plants.

Ever seen a coal barge? they need dams.

 

[BWALKER77]

Ever seen a coal barge? they need dams.

Ever seen a coal train? Most coal plants in the country are supplied by train. And all the export coal from the Powder River Basin goes through washington state so the infrastructure is in place.

 

[BuzzH]

You can find arguments on both sides of this issue. They were installed for a reason and there was some benefit to building/having the dams. If they are to be eliminated without preserving the original intent or benefit, then the reason they were installed is lost and the time and money spent on them is basically for nothing.
It is in everyone's best interest to find a solution that can mitigate all concerns, or at least minimize the impact. Smart people can surely devise a plan to meat this requirement. Just need to leave big money, bad politics, and hear say personal opinions out of it.

I guess mitigation is a one-way street, what about the intent or benefit of a healthy fishery?

The dams reduce anadromous fish stocks on the Columbia River drainage from 20 million to less than 1 million a year, where's the "mitigation" for that?

 

[Elkmagnet]

The dams reduce anadromous fish stocks on the Columbia River drainage from 20 million to less than 1 million a year, where's the "mitigation" for that?

Thats despite over $16 billion spent trying to save them.

On the Northwest’s Snake River, the Case for Dam Removal Grows

As renewable energy becomes cheaper than hydropower and the presence of dams worsens the plight of salmon, pressure is mounting in the Pacific Northwest to take down four key dams on the lower Snake River that critics say have outlived their usefulness.

e360.yale.edu

"Bonneville is also required to spend large sums on Columbia Basin fish and wildlife mitigation to make up for the environmental damage the dams cause. From 2008 to 2017, that effort cost Bonneville $727 million a year, about a fourth of its annual budget. Much of the mitigation money has been spent on the basin’s 178 salmon hatcheries, yet the hatcheries have amounted to an abysmal boondoggle. No salmon species is in better condition than before hatcheries were introduced, and a mountain of scientific evidence indicates that hatchery salmon not only don’t support wild salmon, but reduce chances of their recovery. The salmon recovery effort has cost Bonneville ratepayers more than $16 billion since 1980, about a quarter of their electricity bills. That makes it the nation’s most expensive endangered species recovery failur⁠e. According to Jones, salmon and other wildlife mitigation efforts attributable to the four Snake River dams have cost between a third and a fourth of Bonneville’s total mitigation expenditures."

 

[Elkmagnet]

Ever seen a coal barge? they need dams.

Bonneville power is currently charging $5 per megawatt hour more than the going market is for solar and wind power.

 

[BWALKER77]

Bonneville power is currently charging $5 per megawatt hour more than the going market is for solar and wind power.

One has to be careful when comparing wind and solar to other generation sources given both are subsidized.

 

[Trial153]

Agree, remove the freaking dams.

 

[devon deer]

Is this to stop the potential extinction of Salmon/Steelhead, or to ensure there are sufficient fish in the future to sustain a commercial fishing operation?

 

[Elkmagnet]

One has to be careful when comparing wind and solar to other generation sources given both are subsidized.

I agree but also take into account everyone around here who thinks that their power bill will double after dam removal.
In reality it may double without removal because Bonneville power is in terrible financial condition. As shown in my last link.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Is this to stop the potential extinction of Salmon/Steelhead, or to ensure there are sufficient fish in the future to sustain a commercial fishing operation?

Im not sure if they classify it as an extinction.
There is drainages in Idaho that are either void of salmon or close on some level or another depending on location.
The first link gives an idea with lonesome Larry the ony and last to return to redfish lake(named for turning red with spawning salmon).

 

[Irrelevant]

Commercial fishing in WA is on it's last legs. I give it another few years before gill nets are completely banned. There are a few salmon traps operating that may continue, but there's no real money in it. The average income from commercial salmon fishing WA is like $23k/yr. That's one of the great farces, that if we ended the commercial component it would ruin livelihoods, all those fishermen already have other jobs. No one is surviving on comm. fishing WA.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Commercial fishing in WA is on it's last legs. I give it another few years before gill nets are completely banned. There are a few salmon traps operating that may continue, but there's no real money in it. The average income from commercial salmon fishing WA is like $23k/yr. That's one of the great farces, that if we ended the commercial component it would ruin livelihoods, all those fishermen already have other jobs. No one is surviving on comm. fishing WA.

Imagine what the potential jobs could be with a run of 20 million salmon.

 

[Irrelevant]

Imagine what the potential jobs could be with a run of 20 million salmon.

I actually still don't think a commercial harvest makes sense in WA/OR/ID, but instead think about the recreational impact? Instead of people saving a lifetime for a trip to AK they could spend a fraction of that and come to the PNW every year.

 

[406dn]

Commercial fishing in WA is on it's last legs. I give it another few years before gill nets are completely banned. There are a few salmon traps operating that may continue, but there's no real money in it. The average income from commercial salmon fishing WA is like $23k/yr. That's one of the great farces, that if we ended the commercial component it would ruin livelihoods, all those fishermen already have other jobs. No one is surviving on comm. fishing WA.

They might not be surviving on fishing alone, but it could very well be that their family needs that 23k each year. More than a few people need a few irons in the fire.