CWD found on elk ranch again

[Oak]

Elkfarmer said:

OAK, you seem big on the facts, i am not going to go get them just because i am tired of proving myself right. but i sure would like to see your facts. 40%, yea right. look at the facts OAK, how many elk farms have been wiped out because of 1 case of CWD, then they test the rest of the heard and that could have been the only case, 40% my ass.

farmer, you haven't proven yourself right on anything yet. How about proving that elk farmers have provided more funding than any other source for CWD research like you and Elkchsr claim? Or were you just spouting off wild-ass claims? Here is the statement I made regarding "40%":

CWD has been found at rates much higher than that (up to 40%) where animals are congregated in the wild.

Here's my proof, jackass. Now how about you backing up your wild-ass claims?

An area straddling Boulder and Larimer counties that was considered a "hot spot" for chronic wasting disease last year is still hot, according to preliminary results from tests of recently killed deer.

Results also confirm that several pockets in the area have an even higher rate of the neurological disease, reaching an estimated 40 percent of the deer there.

Colorado Division of Wildlife officials have killed and tested 127 deer from the "Little Thompson hot spot" this year, said Dave Clarkson, a specialist in chronic wasting disease for the division. Results from 19 deer in the Rabbit Mountain Open Space and 50 deer on private property north of there recently came in.

Based on Rabbit Mountain's results, an estimated 20 percent of the deer in the overall hot spot have the disease, which matches last year's numbers, Clarkson said. The Little T hot spot stretches from Highway 66 to north of Carter Lake near Masonville and is about eight miles wide.

Data also confirmed the suspicion of several clusters where prevalence of the disease more than doubled. Last year, 40 percent of the 17 deer tested in one ridge had the disease, he said. Recent tests of 50 deer in that location supported last year's findings.

"It's one of the hottest spots we've found," said Todd Malmsbury, spokesman for the Division of Wildlife.

Clarkson said the results confirm that last year's numbers were not an anomaly. Statewide, the disease is found in less than 1 percent of deer, with other spots in northeast Colorado ranging from 5 percent to 14 percent, he said.

**Link to full story**

Oak

 

[Washington Hunter]

This is simply amazing. I don't get how ANY hunter could support elk farms. It is wrong for elk to be owned and treated like cattle, simple as that. CWD is definitely a good reason to get rid of elk farms, but not the only one.

 

[BbarC]

Glad my elk herd is not in Coloraqdo in that 5%-14% area. Hundreds of private herd animals have been destroyed over a single infected animal and tests revealed no other infected animal in the herd. Elk farmers have about 100% submitted to voluntary monitoring programs, which are at great cost to them as a post mort test can run over $100. Naeba [ elk farmers] has donated a large amount of money to the study of the disease and finding a live test. Atleast one owner has donated his entire herd that originally had one positive animal for study and research. That was no little jester on his part. Have ANY hunters groups RMEF, etc donated anything for the studies?? Or are they just bitching at everyone else?? I don't know, just asking. Who knows where this whole mess started or who is to BLAME, but all the negative bitching doesn't get any of us anywhere. If you want it eradicated, loosen your wallet if you're a real hunter or farmer, and help in the quest to find a test and a cure!!!

 

[RockyDog]

I have been reading about all the deer herds that are bein eradicated in alberta, saskatchewan, and in minnesota due to CWD. Some of these areas in canada had very big deer herds with awesome bucks.

Does anyone know if these CWD outbreaks were related to game farms, or were they from natural causes?

 

[Tom]

RockyDog, If you look at the link Oak gave for mule deer, it implicates the close quarters of wintering herds. Maybe that's why they get it up north so much, especially in the wild. The herds winter up and gather together for the winter hard times. The maps you see for CWD have it more in the north and less in the south. Its a possible factor for its spread in the wild, the winter herding, I guess. The only way to stop that is to kill them off, eh. That, and make an outclosure fence, and keep the density down inside the outclosure fence.

 

[Oak]

Tom, I think Rocky was referring to the outbreaks in Canada, etc. That's a good question. I'm curious how CWD got started in these areas that are separated from the endemic area in CO, WY and NE.

Bob, if you read one of the links I provided above, it talks about how slowly CWD developed in the captive herd they studied. Time between incidences averaged 21 months. But 17% of the herd got it. Granted, it was a very small sample, but it shows how the disease can persist in a captive herd. It explains why there is sometimes no others that test positive at the time of depopulation. I think the greater risk is to wild mule deer and whitetail populations.

The statement about most breeders submitting to voluntary monitoring programs is very telling of how far behind the industry still is. WHY is there still VOLUNTARY programs??? They should all be mandatory, and the breeder should be responsible for paying for them. It's a business expense.

I assume the breeder you referred to that donated his entire herd is Dennis White. That was a nice gesture, but White wanted to keep the elk on site. His only alternative was to have the whole ranch depopulated. I'm not sure what the current situation is there now, but I know White was charged last fall with illegally killing a wild bull that was fighting with one of his mutants through the double fence.

CWD will never be eradicated in the wild. All we can do is slow the spread as much as possible. I agree that bitching about the problem doesn't solve anything, but I don't see many elk ranchers doing their part. They mostly want the states or feds to pay for everything. The Colorado Division of Wildlife has spent almost $400,000 (hunter money) to double fence two elk ranches. As a hunter, I don't want to see my money go towards keeping an elk rancher in business. I'd rather that money go towards research of CWD in wild populations. When it comes to research for doing things like finding a live test, ranchers' pockets should be open the widest.

Oak

 

[ELKCHSR]

I had saved a bunch of stuff on this very subject that has come over this site over the last couple years, but sadly the whole folder is one of those things that got lost when my puter crashed...
I had every thing you guy's had been posting on this very subject...

 

[JoseCuervo]

Look at the Elk Breeders Assn's position on mooching off the Government. Looks like the term "Welfare ElkFarmer" is appropriate....

Double-fence domestic herds in endemic areas. Using state, provincial, and national funds,[/B] as well as donated industry and wildlife conservation forces, states and provinces should use double fencing on domestic cervid farming facilities to protect domestic herds from infection in known endemic areas.

Why on earth should we use public money to keep Welfare Elkfarmers in business?

 

[Washington Hunter]

That's a good question Elkgunner, and I am sure that at least everyone on this board knows the answer, which is of course that we should not have to spend even one PENNY of public money to keep welfare elkfarmers in business. Why elkfarmers feel they are entitled to welfare money is beyond me. I am just thankful my state was smart enough that welfare elk farmers have never been allowed within our borders.

 

[Tom]

Hunters pay a lot less for the elk they get from the state, than elk farmers.

For example, according to research J.Mammalogy V84(2) Pages: 659-664 to know how much it takes to fill an elk with shit you need to know how big the elk is, the slope is 1, relating the two measures. So, like however much it costs to fill your stomach, multiply it up to elk size. Then, you get an idea how much that elk shit is worth, or costs to make. A hunter buys an elk tag cheap, probably at the cost of a couple of days of food. An elk farmer feeds the elk, he pays the real costs of raising elk, not the hunter.

If each hunter paid a fair price for the costs of raising elk, maybe there would be more research funds to control more elk/deer/etc. problems.

Especting an elk farmer to pay it all, while hunters get tags for $50 is not helping the elk/deer/etc. very much. We value the wildlife down here more than that and although hunters pay more than some places, I see some benefits to that approach also.

[ 06-03-2004, 14:28: Message edited by: Tom ]

 

[Oak]

Tom, I'm afraid you lost me completely. I'm not sure what you mean by elk farmers paying more for elk they get from the state. Elk farmers don't get elk from the state. They breed them or buy them from other breeders.

I don't think it's too much to ask that elk farmers be asked to foot the bill for keeping their domestic elk away from wild herds and for testing to make sure their herds are healthy. They're simply costs of being in business. If they can't afford it, they're in the wrong business. If they're donating all this money for research as some others have stated, why can't they afford to follow some simple rules??
Oak

 

[BbarC]

Oak, it is obvious that you have no first hand knowledge of how an elk farm works. It cost thousands of dollars a year for a farmer of any size to test for brucellosis[I had the first certified free herd in the state[, to TB test, [ I had the first TB certified free herd in the state], and to CWD monitor for 5 years so that you can move animals[I was the first in the state to qualify]I personally know MANY elk breeders in many states and know not one that do not follow the above testing/monitoring programs but I do imagine there are some that do not. I DO KNOW that at the first instance of recognition of CWD in private and state herds that the breeders through NAEBA started research on the disease problem in both public and private herds. I know this as I personally contributed many dollars to this effort as did practically all the breeders I know. Did any of the hunting organizations RMEF, etc do this?I cant seem to get this question answered. You can probably tell I dont think much of RMEF as I think tthey do little for elk, but tend to line the pockets of the officers and the other employees of the organization. Any way I've had considerable experience with elk farming as I have raised elk for nearly 20 years and understand most of the problems as well as the pleasures involved. Yes , it is a business and must be treated like one.

 

[Oak]

Bob, I've been talking about CWD. I don't believe I ever mentioned brucellosis or TB. So do you believe that the state or the elk farmer should have to pay for things like post-mortem CWD tests, double fencing, etc.?

Most hunting and wildlife organizations have by-laws that are strict regarding how their money can be spent. The RMEF is primarily a habitat protection organization. They have no interest in aiding or protecting elk farms, as that would go against their mission of protecting wild herds. That being said, they have still helped to fund some research and education projects. You can find a list of these projects at the following link: **RMEF and CWD**

Bob, I'm sure everyone you know participates in mandatory or voluntary monitoring programs. Wes Adams participated too. That's how they found CWD on his place. Then after discovering CWD, they found out that he had not been submitting samples from every elk that died on his place. Guys like Adams, Craig McConnell and Dennis White are not giving elk farmers a very good name, and it only takes one or two bad apples to seriously screw things up. That's why surveillance programs and breeding regulations need to me more strict. And when someone screws up, I expect you and your law-abiding buddies to be standing outside his house with a short rope.

Oak

 

[Tom]

Get Oak, he's promoting lynching now, did you read that? That's illegal Oak, lynching, even in Texas now.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Yeah Oak,
Everybody knows they don't do lynchings in Texas any more, they just drag people behind the pick-up to death, like in Jasper.

I still have no clue why we fought Mexico for Texas. I wonder if we can change our mind, and let Mexico have it back???

 

[elkfarmer]

Boy Oak, no need to get nasty... LMAO, you hurt my feelings.

Just when i thought we were getting along. I was even going to sell you some elk, but not now.

 

[BbarC]

Oak, only gave TB and Bruc testing as examples of how far breeders go to assure the health of their herds. Being an elk breeder is no inexpensive deal so most breeders go to greqt lengths to protect their business. I have no problem with breeders paying their own way for testing, fencing etc. These outlaws would probably be outlaws in about any business they were in. Don't know what you do but I bet you know some crooks involved in your profession. They are about anywhere there's money involved. I dont know any of the thre mentioned here but McConnell, but never liked him from day I met him and before CWD notiriety[sp?] he was suspect to me.
Gunner some of us would like Texas, America.

 

[Tom]

--why "we" fought--?? Texas was not part of the US then, when it beat Santa Anna's army from Mexico it became a republic.

Oak, I was trying to point out that people who raise elk spend a lot of money on them and work hard raising them and keeping them healthy. Hunters just spend a little money, what's your elk tag cost you?, on them and want someone else to keep them healthy for them. That idea has crossed my mind several times during this CWD developement.

 

[Muledeer4me]

Maybe it's the whole thinking process of "one bad apple spoiles the bunch" that should be changed.


Isn't that the way most of the anti-hunter/anti-gun people view hunters/firearm owners?

To promoting going after the law breaker's and making laws that stick seem's like a better way to approach these issue's.
That way we aren't making blanket statment's to cover (all of a group)like the uninformed do against those of us that hunt or own firearm's.


Is the issue finding out more about CWD ,how to protect wild herd's or is it about shutting down all elk rancher's?

 

[Washington Hunter]

Is the issue finding out more about CWD ,how to protect wild herd's or is it about shutting down all elk rancher's?

We can only hope that it is about shutting down ALL welfare elk ranchers.