CWD Found in MT

[Topgun 30-06]

I haven’t placed words in anyone’s mouth. Please tell me what words I placed in your mouth? You said populations weren’t being affected, and I presented evidence to the contrary. I also invited you to do the same- present evidence to refute my statements. No need to get all worked up...

One more stab at it...caveat that I haven’t done any work in Wisconsin and haven’t read anything on it recently, but this is the basic storyline IIRC. Wisconsin started out with an aggressive culling strategy and maintaining eradication zones (killed lots of deer to maintain isolation of the disease). Under that strategy, they kept the disease from spreading much geographically and held the prevalence somewhere under 2%. Then they caved to public opinion and political pressure, stopped their aggressive strategy and switched to simply monitoring the disease. Since they stopped their containment efforts, prevalence has spiked upwards of 30% and CWD has spread across a wide geographic area. That leads many to believe their only mistake was not maintaining their aggressive strategy. If anyone sees something incorrect in my recollection, please chime in.

You know what they say around here...pics or it didn’t happen. We should treat facts the same way.....links or its all in your head.

Since I see we’ve now devolved to name calling, seems like a good time to go do something else.

I did not say they weren't being affected. I said I wasn't aware of any locations where the herds have been DECIMATED by CWD! That is a big difference in what I said and what you posted!!!

 

[The Hedgehog]

Topgun 30-06, I'm thinking of signing up for this special CWD hunt. What is it like for access, also trophy potential, meat palatability, places to park, camp, dine, and have my meat processed. Thanks in advance.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Topgun 30-06, I'm thinking of signing up for this special CWD hunt. What is it like for access, also trophy potential, meat palatability, places to park, camp, dine, and have my meat processed. Thanks in advance.

Another stalker that hardly ever adds anything positive or worthwhile to a discussion, so go fly a kite with your buddy from Laramie!!

 

[375H&H]

Topgun 30-06, I'm thinking of signing up for this special CWD hunt. What is it like for access, also trophy potential, meat palatability, places to park, camp, dine, and have my meat processed. Thanks in advance.

Greenhorn you really don't add much to most conversations except for trying to make people feel small...THAT I can agree with. It's nice to see that elementary school antics still exist on a forum with adults.

Is there any possible correlation to a lack of natural predators that may have led to CWD gaining traction?

 

[JLS]

Greenhorn you really don't add much to most conversations except for trying to make people feel small...THAT I can agree with. It's nice to see that elementary school antics still exist on a forum with adults.

Is there any possible correlation to a lack of natural predators that may have led to CWD gaining traction?

What lack of natural predators are you referring to? I think the Laramie Range has plenty of coyotes, cougars, and bears?

 

[Hunting Wife]

I did not say they weren't being affected. I said I wasn't aware of any locations where the herds have been DECIMATED by CWD! That is a big difference in what I said and what you posted!!!

I’m not going to split hairs with you.

Is there any possible correlation to a lack of natural predators that may have led to CWD gaining traction?

Also not quite sure what you mean by lack of natural predators- do you mean wolves specifically? Haven’t read much research on it. Predators can remove infected animals, but by the time an animal is sick enough to be susceptible to predation it has probably been shedding prions for a while and those will persist and remain infective long after the infected individual is removed. It seems doubtful that predators (any predators) could have had or will have much impact on CWD occurrence. I suppose we might learn a lot more about that though when it reaches the feed grounds and Yellowstone.

 

[npaden]

Is there any possible correlation to a lack of natural predators that may have led to CWD gaining traction?

Seems like there is a pretty good population of mountain lions for sure.

Of the 143 collared deer, 97 died during the study. Of those they weren't able to identify the cause of 37 of them. 13 died during or relating to capture. That leaves 47 that they were able to determine the cause and mountain lions killed 20 of those. 42.5% of the known deaths were from mountain lions.

Sounds like we should just release a bunch of mountain lions in areas that have CWD. They seem to do a good job on them.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I’m not going to split hairs with you.

Splitting hairs, LOL! You have to be kidding if you're a scientist and you call losing some animals to CWD in an area anything close to the word decimated that I used.

Learner's definition of DECIMATE: to destroy a large number of (plants, animals, people, etc.)

 

[ClearCreek]

I’m not going to split hairs with you.

Splitting hairs, LOL! You have to be kidding if you're a scientist and you call losing some animals to CWD in an area anything close to the word decimated that I used.

Learner's definition of DECIMATE: to destroy a large number of (plants, animals, people, etc.)

Now we will have to define "large". What percent decline would constitute a "large number"?

ClearCreek

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Now we will have to define "large". What percent decline would constitute a "large number"?

ClearCreek

Whatever suits your fancy, LOL, but IMHO "some" does not come close to meaning "large" either!

 

[JLS]

Are we doubling down on ridiculous here? If any other cause such as winter kill, predation, or hunting caused a loss of 50% of a population I’m pretty sure we would consider that decimation.

We have an area that has little issue with winter range encroachment, liberal lion seasons, and tightly regulated deer seasons. Yet, numbers are half of what they used to be and likely to decline much further. If that’s not equal to or getting very damned close to decimation we have much different perspectives about what equals a large portion of the population.

Dig away.

 

[ClearCreek]

Are we doubling down on stupid here? If any other cause such as winter kill, predation, or hunting caused a loss of 50% of a population I’m pretty sure we would consider that decimation.

See JLS, here is where the problem arises. For you a 50% decline is decimation, and I am not saying that is wrong, but for others the level may have to reach a reduction of 90% to be considered decimation. The comments by others in this thread show that.

I think the bottom line is, with all the other problems mule deer are having, CWD is only going to further reduce populations. CWD will continue to cause havoc with mule deer (and white-tailed deer as well) populations, that I believe, is a given.

(Please don't make me define and quantify "havoc"!!

ClearCreek

 

[JM77]

I'm going to weigh in on this for several reasons, the least being the childish behavior surrounding several exchanges and different people.

Obviously, the Wyoming G&F Dept doesn't feel any elk or deer herds have been "decimated" enough by CWD to close any hunting areas. In fact, the deer area with the highest CWD rate known, area 65, (as high as 49% of hunter killed deer testing positive), is still a general, over the counter area for residents. Ok, enough of that.

I'm sure some of you have heard of Lucky the elk. Lucky is the sole survivor from some 38 elk calves brought to the Sybille Research Unit between Laramie and Wheatland, where it is known that CWD prions exist in the soil. Lucky, who is now 13 years old, has a different genetic makeup found in a very low percentage of elk. What is beginning to be seen in Wyoming, as time goes on, more animals are surviving longer with CWD. The longer they survive, the longer they pass on their more resistant genes. Elk, like Lucky, could be the very reason. Now I am not a biologist, but I have talked to a few about this. There is some school of thought, that wiping out herds within CWD areas could slow the "possible" natural process of the change in genetics that resist CWD.

All this being said, apparently no one knows how to handle this disease with any certainty. So all of you commenting on here, take that into consideration while you argue about something that no one really has a grasp on yet. As far as where CWD came from? It very well could have been Sybille in Wyoming. No one really knows that for sure either.

 

[JLS]

Jeff,

Yes, I have heard the same hypothesis on allowing the resistant genes to spread. And yes, it does make sense. You’re also right in that many approaches are very much a gamble.

I seem to recall the disease is believed to have come from Colorado and ended up at Sybille through animal transport?

 

[JLS]

Thank you Hunting Wife for sharing your knowledge and expertise.

 

[375H&H]

I was only providing a thought that perhaps CWD is natures way of righting itself in response to either an inflated population or significantly unnatural ecosystem, say one without all natural predators. The same way mad cow righted the unnatural aspect of cows eating cow offal (cannibalism).

Outside of that, if only people who work on the subject in the thread and are formally educated on it comment on it, then it would be quite the short conversation.

 

[JM77]

Jeff,


I seem to recall the disease is believed to have come from Colorado and ended up at Sybille through animal transport?

JLS

I do believe there is nothing to substantiate that idea.

 

[Muleyhunter]

I am so thankful that Montana is here! It is the only place that I will be able to teach the love
Of big game hunting to my boys?
Lucas

 

[onpoint]

Seems a fair number of people have pretty strong ideas and opinions about this this wildlife management issue. If you are a sportsman/woman - rightfully so.
That being said, wildlife management is done by largely by government agencies. The folks who utilize that resource are the ones who pay for those services and to be fully and knowledgeably engaged - need to be engaged.
To be engage folks need to be "showing up".
So, how many of the guys with the opinions on this topic actually:
Actively engage with and stay in contact with their respective wildlife mgmt agencies?
Show up for public informational and comment meetings and/or communicate comments to the agencies?
Actively take part in local sportsmans/womans groups - I don't mean "hey I belong to RMEF"...?
Try and get fellow hunter/anglers to get involved?
As a citizen, take part in the actual legislative process?
Just wondering.
I'm going hunting...................

 

[walking buffalo]

I was only providing a thought that perhaps CWD is natures way of righting itself in response to either an inflated population or significantly unnatural ecosystem, say one without all natural predators. The same way mad cow righted the unnatural aspect of cows eating cow offal (cannibalism).

Outside of that, if only people who work on the subject in the thread and are formally educated on it comment on it, then it would be quite the short conversation.

If this thought was believed in, then wouldn't Nature being telling us to eliminate Game Farms?

Oh Hell no!. lol... Nope, not at all. You definitely got that one wrong.