CWD found in 2 more Upper Green River elk

[Lasiocarpa]

I have seen the massive herds on the east side of the state and I agree that they are not comparable to elk on feed grounds out here.

Large natural herds moving through the landscape together does not compare to concentrating them on the same 100 acres, all winter, year after year.

 

[wytex]

So you all are surprised that cwd made it over?
What do you think would happen when it is found all over the state?
What should G&F do about it?
Maybe close the feedgrounds?

Elk have been artificially concentrated on feedgrounds for years, disease is inevitable when animals are treated that way.
You all are so upset what is your plan of action?

Yes some will succumb to cwd but your herds will be ok. Where has it decimated an elk herd?

 

[BuzzH]

The key point you have made is they "move all around". See the difference? 600 elk will spend the entire winter on that one location in the picture. Licking every drop of the alfalfa they are fed from a puddle of their own excrement.
It will all be ok though. Despite warnings from every expert in the field of wildlife disease epidemiology, we have expert sportsmen and women telling us it will all turn out just fine.

I listened to a top cwd expert about 10-12 years ago give a presentation on how the elk in the Laramie range were at a tipping point with cwd prevalence. That included elk becoming extinct in that range, pretty scary stuff. All sorts of modeling, flashy slides, the usual photos of a couple cwd positive elk, etc. etc.

Flash forward to a couple years ago and the GF is issuing kill permits, hunting from August-March, wardens killing 40 elk at a wack, and most interestingly the GF hired a couple guys to shoot 160 elk...all to keep that in herd in check.

This in the area in the state with the highest prevalence of cwd in elk in all of Wyoming.

Oh, almost forgot, those 160 elk that we paid 2 guys to kill, all tested for cwd, 1 was positive.

The GF can not get these elk under control and were thinking of aerial gunning to control them. For a herd at the tipping point with cwd a dozen or more years ago, I'm just not sure when we're going to see the doom and gloom in that presentation? I hope we never do, but I think a bit more honesty and trying to keep the horse in front of the cart before making outlandish predictions/claims would help.

 

[appaloosa]

So you all are surprised that cwd made it over?
What do you think would happen when it is found all over the state?
What should G&F do about it?
Maybe close the feedgrounds?

Elk have been artificially concentrated on feedgrounds for years, disease is inevitable when animals are treated that way.
You all are so upset what is your plan of action?

Yes some will succumb to cwd but your herds will be ok. Where has it decimated an elk herd?

Yep, let's just keep feeding them and see what happens. It will all be ok

Let's just promise to revise this thread in 5 years. It's bookmarked and on my calendar.

If you are curious about what CWD is capable of read up on the elk herd at Windcave National Park.

 

[WIbiggame]

I hope we never do, but I think a bit more honesty and trying to keep the horse in front of the cart before making outlandish predictions/claims would help

This is where WI dropped the ball initially with hunters. Tried killing all the deer, earn a buck, paid a couple million for Dr Deer to come in. Lost a lot of trust with people. That 20 years later they are trying to get back. All while CWD is still here.

Edit: I would think tho that comparing feed ground elk to elk that move around to find food is like comparing apples and oranges tho. 1 strategy might work 1 place and not another.

 

[brocksw]

I think it’s a safe bet to assume that if feed grounds continue, they will likely play host to some of the highest CWD prevalences in elk, in the world. Purely because of the nature of how they work and the mechanics of disease transmission.

Now what that means? I don’t know. To my knowledge, there’s never been an elk herd that really reaches high prevalence like happens in deer. Does that mean these elk herds will top out at 20%? 30-40%? or will they reach 70%+? I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that in elk. We already know it happens in deer, as has been demonstrated in multiple regions. Again, If feed grounds continue and nothing is done, I think it’s likely this will be where it happens.

I would agree with Appaloosa’s point about this feed ground stuff being an experiment that has never been run before.

But I think it’s also important to mention that elk seem to handle CWD better. Both from the standpoint of the individual animal and from a population level. CWD can hit deer herds a lot harder.

Wind cave elk CWD prevalence has reached as high as 29%. But they have underwent multiple efforts to reduce populations by up to half. Those efforts, at least to my understanding, have resulted in lowering prevalence fairly significantly each time. But then it starts building right back up within those populations. IIRC, there been 3 population reduction efforts since about 2016 (I could be a little off there).

To me, the only solution to this is something similar the following (again just my opinion):

- Reduce feed grounds elk populations by 25-40% (popular I’m sure)
- Start reducing the length of time the feeding grounds are used with the intention of phasing them out asap.
- Buy or lease land on those winter ranges to start developing natural winter range to help spread those elk out so they can feed on natural forage.(easier than it sounds)

Part of the problem here is the complexities of the problem itself. While on the surface this discussion seems similar to the baiting discussion that takes place here in ND. In my opinion, this is a far more complex issue. Partly due to landscape topography, partly due to the nature of wintering behavior of elk vs deer, and partly because of the alternatives available.

Brucellosis is a part of this conversation, where in deer it is not. That is an extremely challenging variable when working towards solutions on this issue specifically. Especially for cattle producers.

Buying/leasing land isn’t cheap and in my opinion it would really be necessary to implement a solution like I describe.

My personal thoughts are that we need to get away from artificially propping up these populations through emergency feeding programs. It’s going to bite us in the ass when it comes to disease. But I understand that’s going to take a lot of time, money, and effort.

I also think the false dichotomies are far too popular when it comes to these discussions. This idea that since we can’t completely solve an issue, we shouldn’t do anything at all. Whether it’s baiting deer or feeding elk, that argument seems to come from folks that are in support of short term gain or the status quo, over smart, long term decisions. I also think it’s a bad look for hunters to be promoting or using practices that are without a doubt, infecting critters with a 100% fatal neurological disease. Continuing to utilize feed grounds, in my opinion, is not in the best interest of the resource, even outside of the CWD topic.

But I don’t say any of this trying to chastise anyone. These feed ground discussions are far more complex than the baiting one being had here in ND. And the solutions are far more difficult to implement.

Just my 2 pennies

 

[BuzzH]

This is where WI dropped the ball initially with hunters. Tried killing all the deer, earn a buck, paid a couple million for Dr Deer to come in. Lost a lot of trust with people. That 20 years later they are trying to get back. All while CWD is still here.

Edit: I would think tho that comparing feed ground elk to elk that move around to find food is like comparing apples and oranges tho. 1 strategy might work 1 place and not another.

I think you need to see the size of the elk herds around here in SE Wyoming and how they use the landscape before you claim an apples to oranges comparison.

The elk in SE Wyoming can't disperse into as much country during the year like they do in other places.