CWD- again and forever.

[brocksw]

Baiting Remains Hunting’s No. 1 Violation in Wisconsin

Despite all the hunting laws broken across the state each year, baiting remains the No. 1 violation in Wisconsin.

www.bowhunting.com

 

[Weimer]

Baiting Remains Hunting’s No. 1 Violation in Wisconsin

Despite all the hunting laws broken across the state each year, baiting remains the No. 1 violation in Wisconsin.

www.bowhunting.com

Maybe because they haven’t seen any difference in the 22 years since the ban on baiting.
Tried it …….. didn’t work. What’s the next study say?

 

[brocksw]

@Sask hunter I want to make it abundantly clear I’m not attacking you or singling you out. I have nothing against baiting, I simply don’t care from an ethical standpoint.

I appreciate your willingness to weigh in, and I know it’s tough to hear, but I think the many perspectives like yours on baiting are simply burying your head in the sand and not being intellectually honest about the topic. Again, just a game of mental masturbation to justify a personal benefit.

But I can sympathize. I know it would be difficult and frustrating to have to give up something you’ve been accustomed to doing when hunting. That’s why I hope for a vaccine that can be placed in bait piles, so then you can bait to your hearts content. But that is not our current reality.

 

[Sask hunter]

Precisely. That’s all you guys have done to my knowledge. Some outdated culling a long time ago and some slight increases to hunter harvest (again not much).

No carcass transportation restrictions.
No baiting restrictions.
Basically, zero significant, long term consistent commitment or effort to combat the disease beyond the original culling.

Things that most of the other places do.

We can’t transport carcass outside Sask with head or spine but when Sask is this size they can still be moved a long ways. Lately they have made it so we can’t take roadkill more then 80km. But I know for a fact in Sask and ND with high coyote prices for ten or so years how many roadkill deer were moved all around the state or Sask. and thus moved CWD around. Finding roadkill around here you almost had to be ther person to hit it cause it was picked up so fast. we don’t spend any money on keeping animals out of hay or out of spilled grain. Hell we barely spend any $$$ on wildlife to start with or enforcement. We should spend more. And I have killed one deer over bait in my entire life only. All the rest have been from various other methods so I am not just a “lazy” hunter who relies on bait. Baiting has been rumoured to go in Sask for years. I doubt it ever will. It would decimated the outfitting industry and money talks. But I’m sure you’ll never see my point of view just like how I won’t see yours. Most people can’t see we have deer densities that are in single digits per mile and see every deer within 10 miles stacked up on feed all winter except for 1 in 20 that’s easy. Just like in the states I can’t imagine govt spending money to keep deer out of farming practices and I’m sure there is more deer down there then I can even imagine. Just like most people won’t agree that muledeer is the cause of CWD spreading issues in my opinion. Through their natural spread north and their likelyhood to have the disease.

 

[Sask hunter]

You can only shoot so many deer. The culls get huge negative whiplash plus we both know it’s too late. And in Sask we have moose and elk draws and can also buy those tags OTC in certain areas. An elk or a moose fills the freezer way way faster then a deer or even multiple deer. Plus we have about 40K hunters not like some states where they could do a deer cull effectively with hunters.

 

[Nick87]

am not saying illegal baiting still doesn’t happen all over the place,

It happens a lot more than most think. Everywhere.

 

[brocksw]

Baiting has been rumoured to go in Sask for years. I doubt it ever will. It would decimated the outfitting industry and money talks.

This

Most people can’t see we have deer densities that are in single digits per mile and see every deer within 10 miles stacked up on feed all winter except for 1 in 20 that’s easy. Just like in the states I can’t imagine govt spending money to keep deer out of farming practices and I’m sure there is more deer down there then I can even imagine. Just like most people won’t agree that muledeer is the cause of CWD spreading issues in my opinion. Through their natural spread north and their likelyhood to have the disease.

ND, SD, MT, WY, CO all get bad winters and deal with winter herding. Why would that affect be worse in Sask? If time is the X axis, all of those states did measurably better than Sask. in the same number of years, they dealt with winter herding as well.

Why does Alberta have significantly less geographic spread and a disproportionate amount cases that are simply spill over from Sask? Does Alberta not deal with winter herding?

 

[Sask hunter]

This



ND, SD, MT, WY, CO all get bad winters and deal with winter herding. Why would that affect be worse in Sask? If time is the X axis, all of those states did measurably better than Sask. in the same number of years, they dealt with winter herding as well.

Why does Alberta have significantly less geographic spread and a disproportionate amount cases that are simply spill over from Sask? Does Alberta not deal with winter herding?

I’m not sure what Alberta’s numbers are like but I know they have done the helicopter gunning and buried deer in pits and it never stopped CWD. A bunch of Alberta is boreal forest like northern Sask no Mulies no CWD. Once we as hunters chip away our own rights we will never get them back. This no bait debate reminds me a lot of that and a lot of our OTC moose tags. It used to be a month bulls or calves then two weeks bulls only. Then ten days. 2 five day Streches. Now this year five days next year talk of some away with all together and hunters supporting it. We shot 1900 or 2100 bull moose on those tags last year. That doesn’t affect moose population at all but here we are willing giving away our rights and we will never get it back. I’m not familiar with any of the states but I’m sure the herding isn’t as long as we have in Sask. we have deer that herd up in early December and stay that way till mid April most years. In the last five years it’s only been two years where we haven’t had snow on the ground may 1 still. They are in herds for long periods of time here and often migrate to find easy food as in spooked grain, grain bags kicked open or bail stacks. When was the first case of CWD found in Sask. wasn’t it the second place to find it. I know I moved into a CWD area in 2005 and it was going on before then

 

[brocksw]

I’m not sure what Alberta’s numbers are like but I know they have done the helicopter gunning and buried deer in pits and it never stopped CWD.

Less than Sask. This isn’t about stopping it, this is about slowing it. We’ve established that can’t really be done once prevalence rates eclipse 1.8%.

But Colorado, Wyoming bought themselves 20+ years of lower prevalence over Sask by following best management practices including not allowing baiting. ND and SD are likely on pace to do the same, as both are doing measurably better than Sask at the same time interval. Honestly, I would bet our winters in ND might be worse than Southern Sask in terms of Temp and precip, if not nearly identical.

 

[brocksw]

I’m not sure what Alberta’s numbers are like but I know they have done the helicopter gunning and buried deer in pits and it never stopped CWD. A bunch of Alberta is boreal forest like northern Sask no Mulies no CWD. Once we as hunters chip away our own rights we will never get them back. This no bait debate reminds me a lot of that and a lot of our OTC moose tags. It used to be a month bulls or calves then two weeks bulls only. Then ten days. 2 five day Streches. Now this year five days next year talk of some away with all together and hunters supporting it. We shot 1900 or 2100 bull moose on those tags last year. That doesn’t affect moose population at all but here we are willing giving away our rights and we will never get it back. I’m not familiar with any of the states but I’m sure the herding isn’t as long as we have in Sask. we have deer that herd up in early December and stay that way till mid April most years. In the last five years it’s only been two years where we haven’t had snow on the ground may 1 still. They are in herds for long periods of time here and often migrate to find easy food as in spooked grain, grain bags kicked open or bail stacks. When was the first case of CWD found in Sask. wasn’t it the second place to find it. I know I moved into a CWD area in 2005 and it was going on before then

Is baiting a right? Is that in a Sask constitution somewhere? Do folks that don’t bait have a right to do what’s best for their resource or do rights only apply to those that hunt over bait?

 

[antlerradar]

This



ND, SD, MT, WY, CO all get bad winters and deal with winter herding. Why would that affect be worse in Sask? If time is the X axis, all of those states did measurably better than Sask. in the same number of years, they dealt with winter herding as well.

Why does Alberta have significantly less geographic spread and a disproportionate amount cases that are simply spill over from Sask? Does Alberta not deal with winter herding?

Prevalence went up in NW CO after the recent hard winter. Bio is speculating that the increase is do to deer crowding together.

 

[brocksw]

Prevalence went up in NW CO after the recent hard winter. Bio is speculating that the increase is do to deer crowding together.

Would not surprise me one bit. No doubt in my mind whatsoever those situations increase gathering and therefore transmission.

If it’s cold enough with enough snowpack, I think there is a potential silver lining(if there is one) where some of the sick deer will die over the winter, helping thin those deer out of the herd. The winter of 23 might provide an anecdotal view for this. We shall see what happens to prevalence in some areas in the coming years.

 

[Sask hunter]

Is baiting a right? Is that in a Sask constitution somewhere? Do folks that don’t bait have a right to do what’s best for their resource or do rights only apply to those that hunt over bait?

Hunting isn’t a right so let’s not chip away at it or we won’t be able to hunt

 

[brocksw]

Hunting isn’t a right so let’s not chip away at it or we won’t be able to hunt

I would agree, how do you think it looks to the anti-hunters who are actively trying to stop your hunting when you’re willing to spread a disease so you can shoot one over a bait pile?

Do you think that helps make your argument?

Do you think there are other more productive ways to protect hunting and advocate for your right to continue to hunt?

Do you think the resource deserves any weight in this conversation, or does their value cease to exist once you can’t shoot one over bait?

Do hunters who don’t bait have any say in a resource they have equal ownership of? Or just those that hunt over bait?

Do you want your wildlife managed by the best available science and trained professionals who are obligated by law to manage that resource for you and future hunters? Or just the folks that disregard science that doesn’t agree with your perspective and the things you deem a benefit to yourself?

 

[Sask hunter]

I would agree, how do you think it looks to the anti-hunters who are actively trying to stop your hunting when you’re willing to spread a disease so you can shoot one over a bait pile?

Do you think that helps make your argument?

Do you think there are other more productive ways to protect hunting and advocate for your right to continue to hunt?

Do you think the resource deserves any weight in this conversation, or does their value cease to exist once you can’t shoot one over bait?

Do hunters who don’t bait have any say in a resource they have equal ownership of? Or just those that hunt over bait?

Do you want your wildlife managed by the best available science and trained professionals who are obligated by law to manage that resource for you and future hunters? Or just the folks that disregard science that doesn’t agree with your perspective and the things you deem a benefit to yourself?

First of all we don’t have anti hunting pressures like they do in other places. On Sask fb hunting groups you see hunters who don’t bait and they aren’t calling for bait to be done. They support it and a person right to hunt that way. Our trained wildlife people are overshadowed by farmer crop damage complaints and vehicle accidents. So ship has sailed a long time ago on wildlife managed professionally up here. Not saying that’s right. A few years ago they tried to do away with our OTC archery mulie tags. And we as hunter banded together to stop that especially considering there is hardly any tags sold, low success rate etc

 

[brocksw]

First of all we don’t have anti hunting pressures like they do in other places. On Sask fb hunting groups you see hunters who don’t bait and they aren’t calling for bait to be done. They support it and a person right to hunt that way. Our trained wildlife people are overshadowed by farmer crop damage complaints and vehicle accidents. So ship has sailed a long time ago on wildlife managed professionally up here. Not saying that’s right. A few years ago they tried to do away with our OTC archery mulie tags. And we as hunter banded together to stop that especially considering there is hardly any tags sold, low success rate etc

You could be right, but I have a hunch your FB group isnt a full representation of the hunting community in Saskatchewan. I’ve seen multiple hunters from Saskatchewan on social media and forums saying that baiting should’ve been banned when CWD showed up. Quite upset more was not done.

But to your point, the discussion around banning baiting in Sask needed to happen long ago, and that ship has long since sailed.

I’ll leave you with this to consider, and I don’t need a response. It’s more rhetorical in nature. Something to chew on for a while. Baiting is without a doubt transmitting disease, that can’t be argued by anyone with common sense or objective reasoning. So, ask yourself a fundamental question around why a hunter would be okay with being directly responsible for spreading a 100% fatal, neurological disease to a wild animal they claim to care about a great deal?

Because at the root of this question is, to me, the part of this conversation I find the most difficult to convey to folks. Because it shows that some hunters have allowed themselves to pull the proverbial wool over their own eyes.

They’ve fooled themselves into thinking it’s about hunting rights, or property rights, or ethical shots, or doing it for “the kids”, or the elderly, or the disadvantaged. But it’s none of those things, those are just disingenuous arguments that avoid the core of their actual stance. Which is that they simply don’t care. They don’t care about creating sick deer, spreading disease, hurting a public resource, or the incredibly selfish nature that’s at the core of any of those ideas. It’s all about “me” and getting “mine”, regardless of anyone or anything else. They know it, they know it’s a chit argument, that it’s selfish, and all these other arguments are their only option to save face and come off sounding decent. Because telling the truth, saying that they don’t care and that hunting over bait is more important than a litany of other things that are actually important. They know that hurts their cause and makes them look really, really bad.

This is a problem within the hunting community not just specific to CWD or baiting, I think it is the same thinking that is behind these efforts towards privatization, and poaching for YouTube content.

But again, in my opinion, that’s what we’re going to see across the country with these CWD issues. Weve already seen it in North Dakota, Oklahoma, and to lesser degree in a handful of other states. But I think this will continue to happen. Hunters will be leading charges to remove authority from their Game and fish departments, getting backed by groups like the Farm Bureau, Hunter Nation, Ted Nugent, Dr. Deer, or other Property rights groups, some who don’t actually care about public resources, public hunters or public hunting, much less baiting or CWD. But they will absolutely take advantage of an opportunity to attack their state Game and Fish departments. When or if that happens, certain private interests will gladly step in to capitalize, further pushing us towards the European model, meaning less hunting for guys like you and me. Baiting will be an afterthought. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Prevalence went up in NW CO after the recent hard winter. Bio is speculating that the increase is do to deer crowding together.

A man could opine that WY elk feedlots are a huge vector for CWD spread too. But that’s just some asshat assuming the herds all packed tight on that feed ground could spread CWD; an opinion not science. So another study.
*bonus hypothesis- there will be chronologically fewer animals every year of that study. Could have gone to Idaho or no, maybe wolves? Need more study.

 

[Sask hunter]

My last response call me selfish or whatever my bait feeding 6-12 deer for a month is a drop in the hat to any issues or disease spreading that will occur over the next 4-5 months of them naturally being herded up and compacted in to some easy winter food source. And yea FB isnt a true survey but I am very certain a survey would be in favour of keeping deer baiting even tho I bet 50% of Sask hunters don’t bait. There will be hunters opposed to archery hunting too cause of too much wound loss or trapping or bear baiting or any other thing a person can think of.

 

[brocksw]

My last response call me selfish or whatever my bait feeding 6-12 deer for a month is a drop in the hat to any issues or disease spreading that will occur over the next 4-5 months of them naturally being herded up and compacted in to some easy winter food source. And yea FB isnt a true survey but I am very certain a survey would be in favour of keeping deer baiting even tho I bet 50% of Sask hunters don’t bait. There will be hunters opposed to archery hunting too cause of too much wound loss or trapping or bear baiting or any other thing a person can think of.

In some sense you’re right, for you as an individual, baiting is a drop in the bucket. That’s why the baiting bans apply to large demographics of hunters, if not all, and not just a single person.

Again, you’re burying your head in the sand to justify your own action. Just be honest about it.

Have a good one.

 

[Bam Bam]

Maybe--are you in an area where populations are relatively isolated? Whitetails move a lot but I've long been told in the west with elevation and terrain there is a greater chance of the disease avoiding just rolling across the landscape because deer are more isolated from each other at a local level in some places.

Our mule deer are very spread out, now that their numbers are so far down. Back 20 years ago, not so much.