Cruz is Out

[jryoung]

With respect to wages, the above is more of a data point. Wages have been stagnant for decades. The middle class has consistently seen their purchasing power stripped away. Just wait until we get autonomous trucks, as it is one of the last large scale jobs in American where one without a college education can earn a middle class income.

http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

 

[grizzly_]

With respect to wages, the above is more of a data point. Wages have been stagnant for decades. The middle class has consistently seen their purchasing power stripped away.

Certainly wages are a data point, my point is the Obama Employment Graph posted above doesn't tell a complete picture of the economy as he portrayed in his speech today.

 

[JWP58]

Some of us hate to see the rich and multi-billion dollar corporations getting all the breaks at the expense of us working stiffs.

Well there's your problem. Live off the government and all the "entitlements".....all will be well! And you'll fit in better at the local democrat meeting.

Its not that I like Trump, its that I hate with all my being what the current democratic party stands for (of course the "old" dem party wasn't any better...you know with their ties to the KKK and all). I hate Hillary Rotten Clinton and her rapist husband. Bernie is just a confused old man that thinks the USSR is still around and that communism and food ration lines are good.

 

[Washington Hunter]

If you think the economy is doing well, you're delusional.

 

[MTGomer]

I can only assume that those of you who are trying to form the argument that the economy is doing well, have been too busy out in the woods hunting to turn on the news. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[hank4elk]

350 million Americans ,and this group that we had to choose from,is the best we can come up with?

 

[Southern Elk]

350 million Americans ,and this group that we had to choose from,is the best we can come up with?

It's a damn shame for sure.

 

[JoseCuervo]

If you don't think the economy is doing well, that is on you.


I drive up and down the street and see "Help Wanted" signs on half the reader boards in town. Everybody that wants a job can have a job.

My investment accounts have done incredibly well since the last few months of the Bush/Cheney regime. If you haven't made money on your investments and retirement accounts over these last 7 years, well, that is on you.

My home value has increased a big chunk in the last 7 years, again, if your home hasn't, that is on you.

Not sure why you are hurting, but it isn't due to the economy.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Let's look at the falling wages since Obama took office. We'll stick to the facts and see how many of us are better off today than in 2008 as a byproduct of this allegedly great recovery...

View attachment 57603

How much inflation would you like to see in the economy?

 

[JoseCuervo]

I can only assume that those of you who are trying to form the argument that the economy is doing well, have been too busy out in the woods hunting to turn on the news. Nothing wrong with that.

Well, let's look at Montana and Wyoming under Obama vs the time under the failed Bush/Cheney regime.


Sure looks like the good people in Montana and Wyoming are enjoying a much stronger economy than when Bush/Cheney left office.

But keep trying to deny facts...

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

How much inflation would you like to see in the economy?

Just wait til every gas station attendant is making $15 bucks an hour....that should make an interesting splash.

 

[James Riley]

Just wait til every gas station attendant is making $15 bucks an hour....that should make an interesting splash.

Especially when they start spending all that money here in America. Time for some trickle up instead of getting pissed on with trickle down. Maybe they'll get off welfare and start paying taxes, unlike those at the top.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing if gas station attendants were making $15/hour?

What would that do to the Wage Rate graph above?

How do you get increasing wage rates without inflation?

 

[jryoung]

Just wait til every gas station attendant is making $15 bucks an hour....that should make an interesting splash.

Might take some salt out of the saying "well it beats pumping gas". LOL We can all be like Oregon.

 

[MTGomer]

Well, let's look at Montana and Wyoming under Obama vs the time under the failed Bush/Cheney regime.
View attachment 57650

Sure looks like the good people in Montana and Wyoming are enjoying a much stronger economy than when Bush/Cheney left office.

But keep trying to deny facts...

Personally I'm doing just fine. But our area as a whole is not.

By citing unemployment numbers I'm not sure if you're being deceitful on purpose, or just don't have the basic knowledge of how that figure is computed. Either way, that's 'on you.'
Great.. you saw some help wanted boards with low wage, part time jobs. Wonderful. The high school kids will be glad to hear that.
The bedrock of what makes our economy tick, is in a downward spiral. IE: Oil, coal, agricultural commodities. Coal layoffs ripple through the entire state, effect budgets for education, infrastructure etc..via decreased revenue. The 'green' jobs to replace it are no where in sight.
BNSF has furloughed 5,600 employees, and capital expenditure budgets from the regions largest players like BN, MRL, CHS have all been slashed drastically. Major projects have been delayed or even canceled all over the hi-line and in Eastern Montana. The DOT is cutting back their infra upgrades due to lack of funds.
Commercial and residential building permits are way down, etc.. etc..

NAFTA and the lifting of Canadian lumber tariffs are still killing local mills in the western part of the state.

Its a good thing we have tourism or we'd really be hurting, but there's not many middle class jobs in tourism. Its either entrepreneurs doing fabulous, or lower wage service work.
Its also a damn good thing that some intelligent entrepreneurs in Bozeman diversified its economy and jumped into tech, otherwise they'd be just like Missoula - failing. If there's another crash, I think they'll do much better than last time.

Wages are stagnant, but the cost of living goes up and up.

You mention inflation in regards to wages, yet ignore it when you discuss your home value.

If you want to talk about facts, bring some next time.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing if gas station attendants were making $15/hour?

What would that do to the Wage Rate graph above?

How do you get increasing wage rates without inflation?

Honestly, I don't know the answer. I am not sure how it is going to affect things, it has been along time since I took Econ. I think the people this is going to hurt the most are the people currently making $20 an hour, because their money is going to be worth less. I also think there is going to be widely different affect from this throughout the country. I would be interested to hear from people in the areas where the increase has already been made, and how it has affected the quality of life for those folks making it.

I am not sure why there can't be some jobs that aren't supposed to support a family. I think it is ok for some jobs to be for high school kids and single people who just like to play video games in their mom's basement.

I think if we want increasing wage rates we should be looking at continuing to support small businesses (not big corporations) to create a scarcity of skilled labor, and invest in education to build the pool of folks who are qualified for jobs that make more than minimum wage. Whatever the solution, I think it needs to happen slowly and more organically, and not just be a government decree. My other concern, besides inflation, is that we are taking away the incentives to try and make something better for ourselves. I am guessing you have worked your ass off to get where you are, and have felt the risk of working without a safety net, there are a lot of people who have never been forced to benefit from that experience.

 

[Zach]

Well, let's look at Montana and Wyoming under Obama vs the time under the failed Bush/Cheney regime.
View attachment 57650

Sure looks like the good people in Montana and Wyoming are enjoying a much stronger economy than when Bush/Cheney left office.

But keep trying to deny facts...

3% downward trend under Obama? why?
Interesting you pick 2 states that are in the bottom 7 in population, preaching to the choir?

All that "Hope and Change" hype turned out to be just that.

 

[noharleyyet]

WTH is a gas station attendant?

 

[Ben Lamb]

WTH is a gas station attendant?

"liberal arts major"

 

[JoseCuervo]

Personally I'm doing just fine. But our area as a whole is not.

By citing unemployment numbers I'm not sure if you're being deceitful on purpose, or just don't have the basic knowledge of how that figure is computed. Either way, that's 'on you.'

Glad you are "doing just fine". Lots of us are living the good life under Obama.

Well, if you don't like unemployment numbers as a measure for your local Montana economy, bring some other numbers. But, you can't deny that the unemployment rate in Montana has plummeted under Obama as compared to the last throes of the failed Bush/Cheney regime.

Great.. you saw some help wanted boards with low wage, part time jobs. Wonderful. The high school kids will be glad to hear that.
The bedrock of what makes our economy tick, is in a downward spiral. IE: Oil, coal, agricultural commodities. Coal layoffs ripple through the entire state, effect budgets for education, infrastructure etc..via decreased revenue. The 'green' jobs to replace it are no where in sight.
BNSF has furloughed 5,600 employees, and capital expenditure budgets from the regions largest players like BN, MRL, CHS have all been slashed drastically. Major projects have been delayed or even canceled all over the hi-line and in Eastern Montana. The DOT is cutting back their infra upgrades due to lack of funds.

No idea how old you are, but I will give you a bit of history. WAAAAAAAAAY back when, in 2008, the economy was crashed under the failed policies of the Bush/Cheney regime. And LOTS of people lost jobs. And, when they lost their jobs, they tried to find any job they could, including lots of the "low wage, part time jobs" you so detest. There were 35 year old construction workers serving french fries and Strawberry Lemonade at Sonic. Now those guys are back working, and the Help Wanted signs are back up.

One of those "Help Wanted" signs I saw last week had "Metal workers = $19/hr Wood workers =$19/hr Welders = $22/hr" So, yes, I am guessing these jobs are good ones in your opinion.

And, if you somehow think commodity prices only go up, you should spend a bit of time looking at commodity prices and what happens when they raise. When the commodity prices go up, more people start producing the commodity, causing the price to fall back. When the commodity price goes down, less people produce the commodity, and the price goes back up. It is called, in some circles 'Supply and Demand'.

Yep, Coal is on its last legs, who cares. We have drilled the shit out of North Dakota and Texas (and Ohio, and Pennsylvania, and the Gulf, etc...) and we now have an excess of natural gas at low prices. No reason to go to the expense of mining a dirty product like coal when you can get Natural Gas much cheaper. Life moves on.

Commercial and residential building permits are way down, etc.. etc..

NAFTA and the lifting of Canadian lumber tariffs are still killing local mills in the western part of the state.

You want tariffs on imports/exports to Canada? Just how many jobs do you want to eliminate?

Wages are stagnant, but the cost of living goes up and up.

You mention inflation in regards to wages, yet ignore it when you discuss your home value.

How does the cost of living go up and up??? Do you have any sort of fact for that?

Here are some "facts" for you....

CONSUMER PRICE INDEX – MARCH 2016

The Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) increased 0.1 percent
in March on a seasonally adjusted basis, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
reported today. Over the last 12 months, the all items index rose 0.9 percent
before seasonal adjustment.

The food index declined in March, while the indexes for energy and for all items
less food and energy rose, leading to the slight seasonally adjusted increase in
the all items index. The food index fell 0.2 percent after rising in February,
as five of the six major grocery store food groups declined. The energy index
rose for the first time since November, with all of its major components except
natural gas increasing.

While the index for all items less food and energy increased in March, the 0.1
percent advance was the smallest increase since August. Major component indexes
were mixed in March. The indexes for shelter, recreation, medical care, education,
tobacco, and personal care were among those that rose, while the indexes for
apparel, airline fares, communication, household furnishings and operations, and
used cars and trucks all declined.

The all items index rose 0.9 percent over the last 12 months, a slightly smaller
increase than the 1.0-percent change for the 12 months ending February. The index
for all items less food and energy has risen 2.2 percent over the last 12 months,
and the food index has increased 0.8 percent. Despite rising in March, the energy
index has declined 12.6 percent over the last year.

Let's see, so we have the CPI going up less than 1% per year......

Damn, that hurts....

If you want to talk about facts, bring some next time.

Good advice...... of course, if one isn't going to be able to understand the facts, there may not be any point in bringing additional facts.