Use Promo Code Randy for 20% off OutdoorClass

Crowded MT Rivers Blamed on Hollywood

BigHornRam

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
14,152
Location
"Land of Giant Rams"
Boom times on the river: Outfitting industry grows as Montana becomes a fishing destination
By ROBERT STRUCKMAN of the Missoulian


FRENCHTOWN - Five Canada geese honked overhead. John Herzer walked past a swing set and a foam deer bow-hunting target.

Herzer opened the door to his garage to reveal camping gear, sleeping bags, Dutch ovens, coolers and other equipment for the business he co-owns with his wife, Terri, Blackfoot River Outfitters.

He loves the wintry solitude of the public land along the Clark Fork River behind his rural home.


But these days, Herzer becomes a traveling salesman, visiting New Jersey to Washington, Texas to South Carolina. His destinations are fly-fishing expos and other venues, where he pitches western Montana with boxes full of brochures and other advertising materials.

Over the past two decades, fishing and hunting in Montana has exploded from a niche into an industry, bringing in almost 16 percent of the tourism dollars in the state in 2005. Fly-fishing has by far become the most lucrative business, according to data collected by the Institute for Tourism and Recreation Research at the University of Montana.

Vacationers attracted to Montana for fishing spent more time in the state and more dollars per day than any other type of visitor, said Norma Nickerson, head of the institute.

Fishing visitors account for just

4 percent of all out-of-state vacationers in Montana, but their overall dollar contribution is 10 percent of the state's travel income, Nickerson said.

“Fishing across the nation is one of the fastest growing outdoor recreation activities, up there with bird-watching,” said Mac Minard of the Helena-based Montana Outfitters and Guides Association.

“Montana happens to be pretty well positioned to benefit,” he said.

In the past few years, the Missoula area has matured into a fishing destination. Other parts of Montana - including the Madison and upper Yellowstone rivers - had that reputation in the 1980s and 1990s, said Robin Cunningham of the Gallatin Gateway-based Fishing Outfitters Association of Montana.

But it's not a simple boom story, Cunningham said, especially where outfitters are concerned.

The outfitting business in Montana took off in the mid-1980s with the popularity of the Norman Maclean story collection “A River Runs Through It.” The craze hit a fever pitch in 1992 when the title story was made into a movie - “the movie,” as far as Montana fishing is concerned - Cunningham said.

Since then, the number of outfitters in the state has steadily grown by about two dozen every year. This year, the number of licensed outfitters stands at about 360, Cunningham said.

Yet Cunningham cautioned against attributing the revenue growth of fishing in the state solely to outfitting and guiding.

In the past few years, an increasing number of fishing parties have begun to do the outfitting work themselves. Back in the 1990s and before, outfitters made something of a joke of their role: If three guys were in a boat, the guide was easy to spot. He was the one pulling at the oars.

“That's not the case anymore,” Cunningham said. More and more people own the equipment themselves, he said.

Still, outfitting and guiding has grown at a modest pace.

Within the state, the outfitting business has matured in some areas and pushed into other, previously untapped areas. That helps explain the enthusiasm of some of the Missoula-area outfitters, Cunningham and others suggested.

The financial side of outfitting is fairly simple, he said. Outfitting requires a $300 state license; guides work for the outfitter. Outfitting also requires insurance, which costs $325 per boat per year to members of the Fishing Outfitters Association. Membership is $125 per year.

On top of that are the standard expenses of trucks, boats, equipment, food and other related costs, he said.

The price tag for two guys in a boat for a day generally ranges from $300 on up to $450, he said.

For longtime outfitters such as Cunningham, the math works out pretty well. His boats and other equipment have long been paid for. He charges between $325 and $350 a day and his expenses might total $50 per day.

But most outfitters haven't been in business as long as Cunningham. For the newer guys, such as Herzer, the business of outfitting can seem, well, a little bit like a grind. That's not to say that Herzer doesn't love it enthusiastically.

“If I had to stay indoors in September, I think I'd go postal,” he said.

But ask him what he'll do when he retires, and he'll laugh. After the garage sale, he won't have much left.

That's why Herzer is in the final stages of opening a fly-fishing store in Philipsburg called Flint Creek Outfitters.

Outfitting is a great way to make a living but a tough way to get ahead, Herzer said.

Eddie Olwell, a Stevensville-based outfitter, doesn't mind the limited room for upward mobility. He's a veteran of the high-stress world of East Coast banking; he escaped to Montana to guide and ski for a living. He concentrates his marketing closer to home, mostly at fly-tying events in the Missoula area.

The outfitting business is getting more competitive every year, Olwell said.

He hopes to carve himself a niche by staying small and personalized. While other outfitters hire extra guides in order to grow business, Olwell wants to keep his operation tiny, going out maybe 150 boat-days a year, with 100 days guided by Olwell himself. By comparison, Herzer sold about 1,300 boat-days and hires five or six guides a year. He was on the river 120 days last year, he said.

And year after year, the rivers get more crowded.

Most of the crowding comes from non-guided fishing parties, according to state and industry figures. But that doesn't keep the public from blaming the problem on commercial use, Cunningham said.

Still, the crowding has had a major effect on guiding. Some waterways require permits, and the value of some of the permits has grown exorbitantly.

One rumor in the outfitting world is that one of four 50-day U.S. Forest Service permits for Rock Creek sold recently for $40,000.

“It's ridiculous,” Cunningham said.

It all adds up to a simple conclusion for Herzer. The fishing world in Montana is maturing. In the coming years, it will get harder for new outfitters to enter the industry. It's a shame, he said, but also a paradox.

“I know I'm part of the problem,” he said.

Still, Herzer will be in Seattle next week at another fishing expo. He'll shake hands and smile.

In about a month, Herzer will return to his wife and two young children from his last marketing trip.

Herzer will be home one day before the season starts. Then he'll be on the water straight until hunting season - just the way he likes it.

“I want to do trips,” he said.
 
This is funny...how can fishing be a lucrative business and good for the economy?

According to snake river dufous and ringer theres no infrastructure for sport fishing, therefore it isnt important to the economy?

I told you so....yet again.
 
Hey dumbass, I don't remember ever seeing a thriving salmon and steelhead fishery in Montana. If you will reread the thread where I whipped your pink ass you will see me isolating the salmon/dam breaching issue from your lame attempts to lay claim to billions of dollars generated by sport fishing for all species. You are a weak sister.
 
Ringer,

You're wrong, now pretend you're a man and admit it.

Sport fishing is a HUGE economic boost to local communities...and an even bigger boost when you have runs of fish to provide that opportunity.

You never did answer the question on what the total economic gain to Kamiah, Kooskia, Orifino was to those towns from 1978-1999 (the years of no sport fishing seasons) versus the years between 1999-2004 when sport fishing of salmon once again returned to the area.

No economic difference....right ringer?
 
You Polock! There you go again claiming total sportfishing for your jerkwater Idaho towns that don't contribute enough to wad a shotgun. Yes sportfishing is a huge economic contributor nationally. Yes sportfishing is a good economic contributor to those small towns on the Snake and Clearwater. Now take the total for sportfishing in those burgs and subtract the benefit from all other species including the current steelhead fishery and tell me just how many billions a salmon run will add. Relatively not enough to wad a .410.
 
Ringer,

How about you factor in another 100 years of trying recover salmon to the tune of many billions of dollars?

How about we factor in all the tackle companies, boat manufactures, etc. etc. etc. that would greatly increase sales, production, employment, from improved salmon runs?

Keep in mind also, that improved runs would also allow a renewed commercial fishery in the ocean, as well as fresh water.

Keep in mind that salmon reared in Idaho waters are fished in Oregon, Washington, AND Idaho as well as in the ocean from Alaska to California.

Beings how the wild steelhead are also considered endangered in Idaho, they cant be excluded. They would also benefit greatly from dam breaching and provide more opportunity for even more anglers in all the above mentioned states. Adding even more money to the economy.

Care to talk about the lawsuit the tribes in Idaho, Washington and Oregon WILL file and WILL win if salmon and steelhead are not recovered and become extinct?

You think sportfishing provides a big number? Dig the wallet out ringer, you'll be needing it.

Now, explain to me how a money losing propositions like Lower Granite and Ice Harbor, which COST the tax-payers millions of dollars are going to do anything positive to alleviate the problem of un-recovered endangered species.

You fail to understand simple mathematics, environmental law, or any of the associated costs with continuing on a failing policy of anadromous fish recovery in Idaho.

The current path has not worked in the past, is not currently working, and will not work in the future. Over 130 scientists from a couple dozen agencies agree.

Time to wake up dude, the coffee is burnt.

You dont have a clue.

Also, if salmon arent important to Idaho's economy...tell me why in 2004 did the mayors of Kamiah and Kooskia petition the IDGF and the NMFS to allow a salmon season of only 500 fish so their economy wouldnt suffer from another year of no seasons?

Its absolutely amazing that you dont think salmon and steelhead are important to the economies of Idaho, Oregon, and Washington.

Unbelievable.
 
You are dumber than dirt! I have said before that I support returning and improving the runs and I could care less if they blow Bonneville up tomorrow. If you keep using expanded data for all sportfishing for all species people will not take you seriously. Isolate the impact of adding salmon only to the mix in Idaho. I lived on the Sandy for years and who cares about a couple of little dams that are way beyond useful. My Honda generator makes more juice. You think I am attacking your arguement but I am just trying to get you to deal with the facts so you don't come across as a raving eco-looney. Obviously isn't working.
 
"Its absolutely amazing that you dont think salmon and steelhead are important to the economies of Idaho, Oregon, and Washington."


That's one of the reasons he's on the "Idiot" list. Whoops! "Ignore" list. No sense wasting time on him.
 
So Buzz,

Do you think the outfitters (commercialization of wildlife) are responsible for the crowded Montana streams, or are there just more and more people wanting to use the limited resource? On a nice summer day the Bitterroot looks like the L A freeway during rush hour. I don't fish the rivers around here much anymore, but it's sure good for the local economy.
 
Problem? Depends on who you ask. Some would say it's the welfare ranchers and welfare loggers creating eyesores for the Brokeback crowd when they come to get away from the rat race. Some would say the problem is the Brokeback crowd. I say be carefull for what you wish for....you just might get it.
 
BHR,
That is why I asked you what the problem was, and based on your answer being your affinity for gay cowboys, I am guessing that the fact there are gay fishermen stealing your gay cowboy friend is the issue.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
113,590
Messages
2,026,230
Members
36,240
Latest member
Mscarl (she/they)
Back
Top