Crazy Mountain Public Access

[bowhunterjae]

Survey sent!

 

[katqanna]

Thank you. This will help the public record and may end up being necessary legally.

I was reading through hundreds of a new FOIA, each time I come across the public's statements about trails and use, like the one guy that drew a Mountain Goat tag, or the elk hunters that were looking for public access, I keep setting these aside for the public use file we may need to prove a historical prescriptive easement to perfect it.

 

[onpoint]

Lotta' text in this one. Some photographic context, for those who haven't seen the Crazies - a little piece of the east side. Spectacular country........

 

[katqanna]

I have loved photographing the Crazies while there documenting. This is the southeastern corner.

 

[MLaird]

I filled out the survey. I haven't been in the Crazies since the early 1990's so I don't know how much it will help.

We hunted with some family friends for 3-4 years on the southwest side. We hunted on a private and public, our friends were related to a landowner there and he was a really nice guy. I shot my first ever mule deer on his place.

 

[katqanna]

It doesn't matter if it is current or older use, we need documents for all use, multiple use, through time. Historic use is just as important.

One of the documents made me smile. Kerry White, of CBU, had contacted the head of one of the motorcycle groups before end of year, for accomplishments, to let their membership know what they had achieved. The member replied that he had worked with Yellowstone Ranger District Alex Sienkiewicz on the Porcupine Lowline trail maintenance.

Kind of ironic considering White's statements about private property in the Crazies and his agreeing with Brendan at the recent EQC meeting about inviting Terry Anderson(PERC) to the next EQC. You can bet I am taking that with me to the meeting.

 

[katqanna]

I just finished 3 days of reading through hundreds of Forest Service public documents I got in December, that primarily involved the Porcupine Lowline Trail System, part of what is being proposed at this meeting on the 31st.

The documents included trail maintenance records and such, but also included over 15 years of public complaints that the access was being cut off by certain private landowners, especially after the hunt club got started, one of which included Zimmerman, who is making the proposal. The other documents were communications between the Zimmermans and the FS over the blocked access, with a few discussions of Zimmerman's trail relocation proposal, which never transpired.

So I spent all yesterday, and part of this morning compiling a few maps: the 1937 map referenced in the documents that I had taken a photo of back in 2015, the FS Trails map, the county fuel tax map and making a 3D map of the landscape, which includes the landownership and current trails so that people would be able to see just what that land really looks like. I added a chronology from 2002 to present of the major communications between the Zimmermans and the FS.

It will be interesting to see if this proposal is the same or similar to the previous discussions.

A FS quote involving the protracted discussions going nowhere for nearly 15 years, "The notion that we can simply continue to 'work on this' indefinitely would constitute a failure to fulfill my obligations to the tax-paying American public."

 

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

I don't understand why this is even a debate, if there is an easement in place isn't it a case closed situation?

 

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

What the eff is this?

http://cordilleramontana.worldnow.c...leads-no-contest-to-negligent-homicide-charge

 

[katqanna]

I don't understand why this is even a debate, if there is an easement in place isn't it a case closed situation?

There is an unperfected historical easement, roughly over 100 years, well before this landowner bought their land in the 1950s. An easement can be perfected by sale, giving an easement, or by a judge's decision, based on documentation.

 

[Straight Arrow]

.... if there is an easement in place isn't it a case closed situation?

Often there is a "prescriptive easement" by virtue of historic trail use, but not a recorded or court ordered easement. That is why the documentation of historical use is critical to the claim of access easement that should eventually be decided by the court.

What the eff is this?

Having monitored the Tim Newman murder case for months and discussed the case with attorney Peter Dayton, the prescriptive easement expert witness, I can tell you that it was an area development / property rights / Montana values debacle that went on for years and resulted in the murder of someone attempting to maintain longstanding access to public land. The deceased Tim Newman was obsessively adamant about using the trails he had used for many years to the point that he and the new landowner threatened each other and were always armed when out and about. It was a tragedy that illustrates the strong feelings that folks have concerning access and private property rights. It did not turn out well for either Newman or Joe Campbell, convicted of negligent homicide (but who actually murdered Tim Newman IMO) and who the judge essentially evicted from the area. It's a terrible story for both.

 

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

Often there is a "prescriptive easement" by virtue of historic trail use, but not a recorded or court ordered easement. That is why the documentation of historical use is critical to the claim of access easement that should eventually be decided by the court.

Having monitored the Tim Newman murder case for months and discussed the case with attorney Peter Dayton, the prescriptive easement expert witness, I can tell you that it was an area development / property rights / Montana values debacle that went on for years and resulted in the murder of someone attempting to maintain longstanding access to public land. The deceased Tim Newman was obsessively adamant about using the trails he had used for many years to the point that he and the new landowner threatened each other and were always armed when out and about. It was a tragedy that illustrates the strong feelings that folks have concerning access and private property rights. It did not turn out well for either Newman or Joe Campbell, convicted of negligent homicide (but who actually murdered Tim Newman IMO) and who the judge essentially evicted from the area. It's a terrible story for both.

That second part blows my mind, in Aus you can never be convicted of murder and not do time.
Taking someone's life over something as petty as walking across dirt combined with the fact that he got off so lightly is simply beyond comprehension.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Taking someone's life over something as petty as walking across dirt combined with the fact that he got off so lightly is simply beyond comprehension.

It involved much more than "walking across dirt", to include cutting locks and confrontations, but still should not have resulted in someone being murdered. Campbell made a deal with the prosecuting attorneys for the state and with the court to plead guilty to the lesser charge of "negligent homicide" as opposed to second degree or first degree murder. I agree that he got off much too leniently. I felt strongly enough about it that after the hung jury, I wrote to the prosecutors and asked them to retry Campbell for murder, expressing my "armchair / peanut gallery" legal advice. Obviously they decided otherwise.

 

[katqanna]

Just got back from some Crazy Mountain research in Sweet Grass Co. and that stockgrower working group PCEC meeting that was set up for the landowner, Ned Zimmerman, to present their proposal for the FS Trail #267 relocation off of private land to FS public land. There were about 25 of us there.

Prior to the meeting, I had read over 400 pages of FS documents involving just that Porcupine Lowline trail. I also had the 1937 FS map which was referenced in the documents, had the fuel tax map, the current FS map and had used a 3D program to make one. I created a timeline of the FS/Zimmerman landowner contacts from 2002 to present. I did not present this at the meeting, I simply went to see what the proposal was, to see the map and perhaps ask some questions. Based on the documents timeline, previous proposals were rolled out when the FS sought to file SOIs and had reached out to the County or other stakeholders, related to filing an SOI. But no formal proposal was ever filed with the FS, it seemed a stall or delay tactic.

I did refute the FS statement that it was about 500 ft. elevation difference overall/or on average, from the current trail to the proposed reroute. It is not, a number of parts of this are about 1500 ft. elevation different, or as some of us have referred to it, steep Mt. Goat shale trails. After the FS representatives glowing statements about this proposal, I asked if this was an official change in the FS's position on this trail, since the current District Ranger Sienkiewicz, and the previous District Ranger Ron Archuleta, had gone to the mat, repeatedly, for the historic public use of the trail, even taking it to their OGC to file a Statement of Interest?

After all the talk by proponents for the trail relocation saying you can barely tell where the trail is, that it is being obliterated by cows and the public can't tell where it is, at times unintentionally trespassing on private property, I asked the FS rep. how long he had been working on this trail issue or had been aware of it. He said three years. I then asked, "Since you were not involved from 2002, when things began heating up and the 2 District Rangers massive onging efforts to defend this trail, have you read the file on it, including the 2 efforts to file a Statement of Interest?" He said he had read some of it. I pointed out the many documents where the District Rangers stated they were doing trail maintenance on #267, to replace missing FS signs, that the FS also stated they would put up wooden post markers along the trail so that the public would know exactly where it was in the meadows, that the landowners had replied each time that if the FS did put those signs and posts up, they would rip them out and in fact had removed some new FS signage.

They had one map, I had to get a camera photo of it. Most in the room invited to this meeting were proponents for the trail relocation. I am not, nor are some others who have actually been out on these trails.

I will be putting together more detailed information and some maps, shortly. Also, Brad (FOCM) and I are organinzing a real public meeting, in Livingston, to raise awareness of the west side Crazy Mountains situations and what can be done about it.

Regardless of anything that was discussed at this meeting, at the point that the landowner actually files a formal proposal with the FS, the FS would decide feasability and if to proceed to a NEPA Environmental Impact Study process, which would then involve an engineering study on the trail and any potential erosion issues. If it passes that muster, it would then go out for a public comment process.

 

[406LIFE]

As always Kat, TYVM. Your beer tab continues to grow.

 

[elkduds]

Kat: My old friend from Crested Butte, Tracy Wickland wrote this song. It reminds me of you.
Thanks for your passion in service of our mountains.


The Mountain Song

I came here from the city
A thousand miles away
I came just for a little while
You know I never meant to stay
I meant to take my pleasure
Have a good time and be gone
But I fell in love with a lady
Now I sing a mountain song

I listened to the music
Of the night wind in the pines
I saw the quiet slendour
Of a field of columbine
I skied on crystal pathways
To a mountain peak so tall
And I walked the mighty summits
With the one who made it all

And I fell in love with a lady
'Cause I've seen her at her best
And I've walked her wild and rugged paths
Through her open wilderness
And now I never can betray her
Steal her riches and be gone
'Cause when you love a mountain lady
You're gonna sing a mountain song

Now people come from everywhere
To see what they can find
And some take lots of pictures
And some just take their time
But they're some who take her beauty
That can't be bought or sold
And they think of only money
While destroying wealth untold

But you fall in love with a lady
When you've slept upon her breast
And I've walked her wild and rugged paths
To her open wilderness
And you never can betray her
Steal her riches and be gone
'Cause when you love a mountain lady
You're gonna sing a mountain song

Words and Music by Tracey Wickland

 

[katqanna]

You're welcome.

Even though I knew what was going to happen, what was set up to happen, and the jist of the trail relocation proposal, based on the 15 years of documents, I had to have a large, strong scotch ale after that meeting and the hops still did not help me to sleep that night, I was so pissed at what I saw play out in that room.

Elkduds, thank you, that is so beautiful. I will share that on an upcoming newsletter. I did come from a city, 1,676 miles away and fell in love with Montana. My 11th birthday here on Valentines Day!

 

[Irrelevant]

That's a great bit of poetry

 

[RobG]

Sorry Kat, this is a damn good proposal starting point. It is foolish to trade it for a million dollar 10 year legal battle that, at best, will give us a 6 mile walk through a private land cow pasture to an isolated section of public land that is three miles from another trailhead. Let's try to make it work.

 

[RobG]

...