Cow elk question

[undercover]

How would a herd of cow elk typically evade pressure from a hunter or predator? Meaning are they similar to whitetail that will most often use upwind and cross wind after being disturbed. More time than not the deer I typically hunt will retreat to the general area that they came from but use there nose as a guide cutting the wind, and if they scent something again they will adjust. So here’s my thought: if I come across a group of hunters making a run at a herd of cows do I hang back and watch it unfold and then make my play or do I make a calculated play to where I think that herd will retreat to! I understand elk do what they do and theN there is the elk marathon even tho I’m a newbie and have never witnessed it. This is type 6 or 7 tag in relatively open country late November, December, january hunt. There must some law of high averages when it comes to elk and evading pressure. But maybe I’m not even in the parking lot of the ball park!

thanks in advance

Brian aka undercover

 

[Dsnow9]

I would say your on the right track. But at the same time there is really no general rule when it comes to elk. They react to pressure and you are in their back yard. Sometimes they will go back where they came from, but if they think another way is better they will go there.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Often they somehow know where you are certain they are headed ... and they go the other way.

 

[RidgeRoamingRichard]

I've seen a group of cows forego using a nice, open saddle and run straight up what I thought was a cliff. They seem to follow the same routes to an extent, but pressure sends them in all different directions. They also know where they get shot at and where they don't, and I've seen 300 head hold up on a farmers field all day, not moving until well after shooting light. That's why they are so fun to hunt.

 

[Addicting]

My first year I had a group with a bull patterned just like you do with Whitetails. I thought it was going to be a slam dunk. On the opener they completely changed and it took me 4 days of failed attempts before finally getting a opportunity. Best part was I saw them in the same 30 acre park every morning and evening. The would go in one side and I would set up on them only to have them come out 700 yards away on the opposite end. Fun but frustrating

 

[Deleted member 16014]

IME the January type balled-up herds act a little differently than a cow herd on public in Nov. If it’s all public ground around, in a Nov type timeframe where most of the habitat is still available, I usually see them get the heck out of dodge and cover miles. A mid winter herd might do the same, but swirl and zig, zag, and all manner of seemingly illogical stuff in the process.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Speaking in extreme generalities of course.

 

[Muley_Stalker]

A lot of what a herd of cows will do depends on the herd cow. She controls the herd movement. Some of them are pretty smart. Others are new on the job.

 

[memtb]

JMO, and this is for my region only. Late season cows, from several months of pressure, generally get pretty far from the traveled roads, often meaning often they’re living on private land ....where there is little to no pressure! That said, they from thousands of years of preservation know they must stock up on feed to survive the winter.....to do so means moving to the open faces of ridges where wind or sun helps make feed more readily accessible. Add to this the pressure from wolves, which also tends to move the elk down to lower elevations and onto private ranch lands .....much of which is irrigated fields along rivers and streams, meaning much feed readily accessible.

This by no means means they are inaccessible, as they seem to constantly move. They will generally leave the open faces to “hole-up” in timber for the day. If you find the area in which they are feeding, you may be able to intercept them in route to the timber.....if you have access to their route.

Just as a general statement, it’s easier to get your cow during the late season! You just have different challenges than those of the earlier seasons. memtb

 

[memtb]

A lot of what a herd of cows will do depends on the herd cow. She controls the herd movement. Some of them are pretty smart. Others are new on the job.

If you have multiple hunters, the strategy of those folks I know that elk hunt, was that one of the party shoots the lead cow first. This often puts the group into confusion. They will often “mill” around for a little bit, giving the other hunters time to get additional elk! memtb

 

[BuzzH]

If you have multiple hunters, the strategy of those folks I know that elk hunt, was that one of the party shoots the lead cow first. This often puts the group into confusion. They will often “mill” around for a little bit, giving the other hunters time to get additional elk! memtb

Just curious how a person not only shoots the "lead cow" out of a herd of several hundred elk in the dead of winter, but how the hell you distinguish which one is the "lead cow"? I think in large herds the lead cow theory is more akin to a fairy tale.

Plus, IMO, even if you could shoot the "lead cow" it would be dumb to do so for a lot of reasons...

I think this myth has perpetuated itself from people selecting a cow with a calf, killing the cow then killing the calf that is reluctant to leave the cow your buddy just whacked.

I look large herds of elk over for a while and try to pick a cow that doesn't have a calf before I shoot one. If you look them over for a while, its not that hard to do...high cow/calf ratio's in a herd are 30/100 meaning lots of cows in a large herd don't have a calf.

 

[undercover]

I look large herds of elk over for a while and try to pick a cow that doesn't have a calf before I shoot one. If you look them over for a while, its not that hard to do...high cow/calf ratio's in a herd are 30/100 meaning lots of cows in a large herd don't have a calf.

Thanks Buzz for the cow to calf ratio. That was a nugget of info I didn’t have and will for sure utilize if I have a chance or two to look over a herd

 

[sbhooper]

Just curious how a person not only shoots the "lead cow" out of a herd of several hundred elk in the dead of winter, but how the hell you distinguish which one is the "lead cow"? I think in large herds the lead cow theory is more akin to a fairy tale.

Plus, IMO, even if you could shoot the "lead cow" it would be dumb to do so for a lot of reasons...

I think this myth has perpetuated itself from people selecting a cow with a calf, killing the cow then killing the calf that is reluctant to leave the cow your buddy just whacked.

I look large herds of elk over for a while and try to pick a cow that doesn't have a calf before I shoot one. If you look them over for a while, its not that hard to do...high cow/calf ratio's in a herd are 30/100 meaning lots of cows in a large herd don't have a calf.

At that point in their lives, the calves are self-sufficient for the most part anyway and run with the herd. I never worried too much about pairs that time of year.

I would think that the first couple of big cows in the herd that is strung out headed for safety, are the old wise ones and that would be my target, being that I was in the right position to make that call.

 

[BuzzH]

At that point in their lives, the calves are self-sufficient for the most part anyway and run with the herd. I never worried too much about pairs that time of year.

I would think that the first couple of big cows in the herd that is strung out headed for safety, are the old wise ones and that would be my target, being that I was in the right position to make that call.

I have no qualms about anyone killing a cow with a calf, of course the calves will live.

Just been my experience a cow that hasn't been nursing a calf all spring/summer/early fall is in much better shape...I want the best quality elk I can find.

As for the lead couple cows, I've watched herds leave an area after being shot up, there is clearly no defined "lead cow" in those big bunches...they switch positions non-stop.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Not sure I buy the whole lead cow business either. I usually just shoot the first cow that gives me a good opportunity. Good luck in trying to predict what a herd will do once you shoot. You may be able to at times, but often they just go where they go and it doesn't always seem like the logical option. Another thing to keep in mind is not all the elk will be in large herds. Sometimes you can find small herds of around a dozen and they are usually a lot easier to make a play on. Good luck.

 

[Rzrbck918]

With regards to herds of elk, I try to figure out exactly what I think they will do and then I hunt as if they are going to do the opposite. Works about a third of the time.

 

[BuzzH]

My experience...lots of folks outsmart themselves and over-think it.

 

[Guy]

Nice thing is, the cool temps help cool the meat down fast.

Where they'll go? Who knows? Typically away from the threat, and maybe not real far.

 

[Addicting]

As far as the herd goes. I shoot whichever one steps away from the masses. Once you shoot there is almost no way to distinguish which one you shot at until she drops. Having a buddy spot for you is the best way of knowing. So being able to identify the same elk prior to the shot means shoot the outliers.

 

[kwyeewyk]

So here’s my thought: if I come across a group of hunters making a run at a herd of cows do I hang back and watch it unfold and then make my play or do I make a calculated play to where I think that herd will retreat to!

I'd say this is going to be specific to each situation, you'll definitely want to hang back and not crowd somebody who's already working them, but certainly if you have a good idea of where they're going to go it makes sense to try to work to a better position. I wouldn't compare it to whitetails though, if the herd has already spooked from other hunters, they're going to be covering ground, and if they catch a whiff of you they'll most likely just move faster. Other than some small scale habitat forested situations, I haven't seen elk "circle back" like whitetails often do, especially if you're out in open country, they'll cover a couple ridgelines and it can be a few miles.