Corner Crossing latest

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

Makes no sense.
They fence to keep their livestock within a boundary... whether to keep them in or out, or on a rotational basis. Just like everywhere else in this country.

If the fence is "reasonable and IAW normal farming practices" there is zero chance of being successful in an obstruction charge... IMO.

Yeah, unless they are raising giraffes and have a nine-foot fence, then I cannot see that being adjudicated as legal.

If the fence is on a corner then it is just as much on public as it is on private.

 

[Dave N]

Makes no sense.
They fence to keep their livestock within a boundary... whether to keep them in or out, or on a rotational basis. Just like everywhere else in this country.

If the fence is "reasonable and IAW normal farming practices" there is zero chance of being successful in an obstruction charge... IMO.

Yeah, unless they are raising giraffes and have a nine-foot fence, then I cannot see that being adjudicated as legal.

I get that but how many of the folks like Elk Mountain actually have fence up? Double edged sword there, having a fence to even attempt to deter corner crossing would at the same time designate the implied actual corner. I have no idea being from the midwest and not dealing with this.

 

[WapitiBob]

Too much fence would be illegal, correct? Unlawful enclosure? I can't see how any fence even NEAR the corner would be legit and not for the intent of keeping people from out.

The "Four" grabbed the fence post and swung around it the prior year.

 

[manitou1]

If the fence is on a corner then it is just as much on public as it is on private.

When I surveyed properties most build the fence on their own property, as they are supposed to do. There is no "undesignated property line" between the two.

 

[Irrelevant]

When I surveyed properties most build the fence on their own property, as they are supposed to do.

Man you can get in hot water over that, there's obviously lots of grey area and nuance, but if a fence is there long enough it can become the property line in spite of what a survey may say. My parents won a property dispute based on it.

 

[manitou1]

Man you can get in hot water over that, there's obviously lots of grey area and nuance, but if a fence is there long enough it can become the property line in spite of what a survey may say. My parents won a property dispute based on it.

Over building a fence within your property boundaries.

No... you get into hot water building the fence on other people's properties or on public without written permission.

 

[BrentD]

Man you can get in hot water over that, there's obviously lots of grey area and nuance, but if a fence is there long enough it can become the property line in spite of what a survey may say. My parents won a property dispute based on it.

Not on my properties. I keep my fences well inside of the line for a reason. They are NOT the property line.

 

[gouch]

Man you can get in hot water over that, there's obviously lots of grey area and nuance, but if a fence is there long enough it can become the property line in spite of what a survey may say. My parents won a property dispute based on it.

Not on public land. There is no "Adverse Possession" of public land.

One thing landowners could do is put the corner posts of their fences 4" from the center of the corner monument on both private portions of land. Leaving an 8" gap for corner crossers to try and squeeze through. I know I wouldn't get my fat ass through without damaging private property.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Fence issue = red herring.

Chill boys; this fence discussion like you think you know the "fence law" is silly.

 

[Nunyacreek]

Don’t know in other states but in MT there is essentially no adverse possession of public or private based on fencing or anything else because you have to pay taxes on it as an element of adverse possession. This is unlikely, impractical, and basically prevents adverse possession in any scenario that might be remotely common.
When someone establishes a right based on an encroachment it is a prescriptive right, essentially an easement. And the simplest way to prevent a prescriptive right from accruing is just to give permission.

 

[BuzzH]

It's pretty funny how some just can't handle a win...

 

[406dn]

Makes no sense.
They fence to keep their livestock within a boundary... whether to keep them in or out, or on a rotational basis. Just like everywhere else in this country.

If the fence is "reasonable and IAW normal farming practices" there is zero chance of being successful in an obstruction charge... IMO.

Yeah, unless they are raising giraffes and have a nine-foot fence, then I cannot see that being adjudicated as legal.

On a practical practice yes, but I am reasonably certain that in Montana, a fence is legally erected to keep other people's animals off of your property. Most of the state is classified as open range. Cattle are free to graze, where they may. It is interesting that cattle have more trespass rights than do humans.

 

[manitou1]

It's pretty funny how some just can't handle a win...

Oh Buzz, I think we are all elated with the win.
We understand you have some skin in the game and personal pride and appreciate it.
Reality is reality. To think there is not another wealthy narcissitic rancher out there that would not go to the ends of the earth to protect his monopoly or show his "influence" would be foolish.

For those prepared to sustain a six-figure economic downturn via legal fees, maybe it is worth the gamble.

Personally, I myself am researching ladders. But... I guarantee this issue is not dead and there will be some challenges at the expense of some well intentioned hunter's pocket books.

 

[GoGriz]

would anything stop someone from paying to have a corner surveyed at a great potential crossing spot, and using that point for a few years, likely to yourself, before others also find the pin? Not trying to keep others out, but if you and the surveyor are the only ones who know where the pin is, you might have a little head start in some area - just a thought (and paying for the survey seems cheaper than paying for access).

 

[mtmuley]

would anything stop someone from paying to have a corner surveyed at a great potential crossing spot, and using that point for a few years, likely to yourself, before others also find the pin? Not trying to keep others out, but if you and the surveyor are the only ones who know where the pin is, you might have a little head start in some area - just a thought (and paying for the survey seems cheaper than paying for access).

I've kicked some dirt and branches and stuff over some pins. Not illegal. mtmuley

 

[GoGriz]

It might also be interesting if someone like BHA or similar brings on a surveyor full time with their time being spent to mark corners and publish the exact spots. Would do a lot for access and might keep some people out of hot water if the spots are clearly marked. Some might not like it, but it’s interesting to think through.

 

[mtmuley]

This happens too. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

Oh Buzz, I think we are all elated with the win.
We understand you have some skin in the game and personal pride and appreciate it.
Reality is reality. To think there is not another wealthy narcissitic rancher out there that would not go to the ends of the earth to protect his monopoly or show his "influence" would be foolish.

For those prepared to sustain a six-figure economic downturn via legal fees, maybe it is worth the gamble.

Personally, I myself am researching ladders. But... I guarantee this issue is not dead and there will be some challenges at the expense of some well intentioned hunter's pocket books.

The issue is over, supremacy clause is worth your time to research, and you might want to read the 10th circuit ruling with your comprehension turned on.

No LEO is going to scratch a ticket for corner crossing, they weren't doing that before the 10th ruling (well with the exception of that brain housing Mayfield-Davis, how did that work out?)

You need to quit spreading lies and whataboutism's that aren't true.

Crossing corners is now legal access in the 10th, period, end of statement.

 

[BrentD]

I've kicked some dirt and branches and stuff over some pins. Not illegal. mtmuley

Why?

 

[BrentD]

would anything stop someone from paying to have a corner surveyed at a great potential crossing spot, and using that point for a few years, likely to yourself, before others also find the pin? Not trying to keep others out, but if you and the surveyor are the only ones who know where the pin is, you might have a little head start in some area - just a thought (and paying for the survey seems cheaper than paying for access).

I do not know that it is legal to have a nonlandowner surveying someone else's land. It is an curious question. There might be a few key corners that some people would be willing to pay to have marked perfectly.