Copper fouling on a new rifle has me puzzled??

[Mtnhunter1]

I'm puzzled??

New rifle, right out of the box, never fired by me, extreme copper fowling in the middle of the 24" barrel. No copper the first 6" past the throat and no copper the last 6" to the muzzle. The middle of the barrel has extreme copper smeared down both the lands and grooves.

The manufacturer stated that they fire several high pressure loads through the gun, to proof test, before it gets shipped out to the retailer. They also included their suggested barrel break-in process with a recommended copper solvent.

Has anyone run into this before? If so, what do you feel can cause this type of copper fouling? Remember, there is no copper the last 6" of the barrel!

Once I bring a new or new to me rifle home, the first thing that I do is clean the bore. This usually doesn't take over an hour but this one is a real copper mine.

 

[winmag]

I wouldn’t worry about it yet. It should improve and foul less after it’s broken in. Buy some KG12 and it’ll safely remove the copper via soaking instead of having to scrub it out, which risks damaging the bore as you scrub.

 

[WapitiBob]

Most likely a tight spot in the bore.

 

[Mtnhunter1]

Most likely a tight spot in the bore.

That is the only reason that I could think of also.

The manufacturer requested photos to backup what I was describing. They said to not be worried about the issue until the barrel has been broke-in and I see how it will shoot. If I feel that it doesn't meet their accuracy guarantee, I will have to send it back to them for a gunsmith review. I don't have a problem with that!

My question: Has anyone ran into this problem? If so, how did the rifle shoot? If the rifle shot well, how soon did the copper fouling effect the accuracy? Once that rifle copper fouled, how big of issue was it to clean over time?

I have cleaned 100's and 100's of rifles and have never ran into this issue before. That is why I am reaching out to the HT masses.

In reality, the bore is very good for an off the shelf rifle, very minimal tool marks at the throat and muzzle.

I will attach a few photos. The photos represent three days of cleaning with 200+ patches and many rounds of brushing with Hoppe's #9.

PIC001: 6" from the throat of the chamber.

 

[Mtnhunter1]

PIC002: 12" from the throat, after days of cleaning, the copper is still extreme.

 

[Mtnhunter1]

PIC003: 12" from muzzle.

 

[Mtnhunter1]

PIC004: 10" from the muzzle and the copper is starting to dissipate. The last 6" of the barrel is copper free.

 

[Richard22]

I always go through a break-in regime (I know that can be a hot topic) which results in less chance of a copper build up. It's my understanding copper buildup becomes less an issue once a new barrel as seen enough rounds shot through it. With that in mind, you might remove the copper and see if there is an improvement. Keep us updated on how it shoots after you've addressed it in whatever fashion you decide.

As a sidenote, I'll never understand why some shooters scoff at any suggestion to buy and use a bore scope. I cannot think of any other tool that can tell you more about the condition, performance, and history of a firearm.

 

[44hunter45]

Just curious as to how many rounds you fired to create the copper buildup. I always go through a break-in regime (I know that can be a hot topic) which results in frequent cleaning and less chance of a copper build up. If the buildup came after a lot of rounds, that might explain it. It's my understanding copper buildup becomes less an issue once a new barrel as seen enough rounds shot through it. With that in mind, you might remove the copper and see if there is an improvement after subsequent rounds. Keep us updated on how it shoots after you've addressed it in whatever fashion you decide.

As a sidenote, I'll never understand why some shooters scoff at any suggestion to buy and use a bore scope. I cannot think of any other tool that can tell you more about the condition, performance, and history of a firearm.

I'm puzzled??

New rifle, right out of the box, never fired by me, extreme copper fowling in the middle of the 24" barrel. No copper the first 6" past the throat and no copper the last 6" to the muzzle. The middle of the barrel has extreme copper smeared down both the lands and grooves.

The manufacturer stated that they fire several high pressure loads through the gun, to proof test, before it gets shipped out to the retailer. They also included their suggested barrel break-in process with a recommended copper solvent.

Has anyone run into this before? If so, what do you feel can cause this type of copper fouling? Remember, there is no copper the last 6" of the barrel!

Once I bring a new or new to me rifle home, the first thing that I do is clean the bore. This usually doesn't take over an hour but this one is a real copper mine.

See it now?

 

[Richard22]

See it now?

My apologies.

To be honest, I've never scoped a new rifle to know how much copper was left in a barrel after test firing at the factory. Like I mentioned in my earlier post that I later edited, I can only suggest a good cleaning with copper solvent to see how it checks after a couple more rounds have been shot through it.

Keep us updated on what you find. Thanks.

 

[Caseknife]

Think that I would try an ammonia based solvent. Something made specifically for copper build up. Good luck

 

[44hunter45]

My apologies.

To be honest, I've never scoped a new rifle to know how much copper was left in a barrel after test firing at the factory. Like I mentioned in my earlier post that I later edited, I can only suggest a good cleaning with copper solvent to see how it checks after a couple more rounds have been shot through it.

Keep us updated on what you find. Thanks.

**sigh**

 

[Mtnhunter1]

Will have some true copper killer tomorrow and I'll make the copper disappear. Guessing that the copper will return with the first few fired rounds.

Finger crossed that the rifle turns out to be a shooter.... but I already have my doubts.

Side note: Cleaned a different new rifle today that had been test fired at the factory, 20 minutes and it was spotless.

 

[millerkiller77]

Bore scopes are a blessing and a curse. I scoped a new Ruger American G2 .223 and thought it was a smooth bore. After a lengthy cleaning session I got it clean enough for my likings and it ended up being a pretty accurate rifle for the money. There was a section 12" from the muzzle that fouled heavy for the first ~100rounds before gradually "smoothing" out and no longer fouls that section any worse than the rest of the barrel. I agree with the other poster that suggested it might be a tight spot in the barrel.

 

[millerkiller77]

Montana Extreme copper killer is the only one I've used that effectively removes copper. I've bore scoped a few rifles after using some of the color indicating solvents, and there is always copper left in the barrel after getting "proof positive clean patches" ymmv
Gun solvent threads are like truck tire threads

 

[MS 9x56]

Never seen it in a new gun but that is why I quit using Barnes copper bullets. 10 rounds and accuracy started opening up groups. It was a bear to get out too.

 

[std7mag]

Thinking we have a spammer!! ^^^^

To keeping with the original thread.
Hoppes #9 isn't a copper remover.

As far as borescoping a new barrel that isn't a top tier manufacturer, don't do it!
It'll just drive you crazy!

 

[Nicoli7153]

I've had good luck with The Thoroclean System and following it up with BoreTech Eliminator.

Thorclean system is available at Bullet Central in Fargo ND

Been using Eliminator for several years and it doesn't have harsh chemicals (either does Thoroclean). Don't use and brass rods or tips so you don't get a false positive.

Been shooting monos for years and it has worked for me. If you're going to shoot monos after shooting traditional cup and core bullets be sure to remove any of the copper from the cup and core bullets as it is much harder than the copper used in monos (i.e. test fire factory bullets)

A good bore guide (Possum Hollow) is your friend. Think Brownells and Midway sell them.

FWIW

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Bore scopes are a blessing and a curse. I scoped a new Ruger American G2 .223 and thought it was a smooth bore. After a lengthy cleaning session I got it clean enough for my likings and it ended up being a pretty accurate rifle for the money. There was a section 12" from the muzzle that fouled heavy for the first ~100rounds before gradually "smoothing" out and no longer fouls that section any worse than the rest of the barrel. I agree with the other poster that suggested it might be a tight spot in the barrel. View attachment 359763View attachment 359764View attachment 359765

Holy cats that looks awful after cleaning.

 

[Richard22]

Bore scopes are a blessing and a curse.

Such is true for any tool used for investigative use. Now whether or not the user has a desire to know their outcome is another matter.