Congressman Pearce calls for selling of Public Lands

[Straight Arrow]

"Funny thing, 2 communities who are all convinced that ranching and their way of life is threatend."

Eric, it's not funny. It's perplexing. You are correct; I don't get it.

Please describe the threat and connect the dots. Nonexistent national monument, federal land grab conspiracy, fenced bison on public land, private property, reservations. How do these all fit together as a threat to your livelihood?

 

[----]

Just got my copy of the Glasgow Courier, there are now 63 ranches closed to hunting in Valley/Phillips counties. Maybe we are all "conspiracy theorists". I will spell it out again for the dolts out there....those landowners are not mad at the sportsmen, and are not taking out their frustrations on the sportsmen....this is the only recourse they feel they have against FWP....get it?

So from now on I should kick my dog if the cat pees on the floor?

This whole subject makes you realize just how important public land is. Sure glad I could personally give a crap if somebody threatens to "close their land" because they are not happy about something.

No kidding...

 

[Eric Albus]

The APF/APR has a goal of 3 million acres. Valley county is 3.2 million acres. Phillips county is slightly larger. The proposed "bison/wolf/grizzly bear reserve takes in about half of each county.

The landowners who have closed their ranches to hunting are not taking aim at the sportsmen, the sportsmen that live here understand this and support the ranch/landowing communty. Most of the sportsmen here in Valley/Phillips Co.'s are conservative in their way of thinking, perhaps that is the difference. They know who the landowners are trying to make a point to.

The OVERWHELMING comment at the "bison meetings" this summer was NO FREE RANGE BISON. If the bison were treated like livestock and property of the state, the tribe, or some other entitiy, nobody in the ranch community would have had a problem. FWP and Gov. BS let the tribe move bison to Ft. Peck, illegally. There was a court order to not move the shaggies.

I found this of particular disturbing nature....do any of you know who paid the tab for transporting said shaggie beasties? (i am sure you are thinking "who cares", which most of you may not).... The "conservation group" Defenders of Wildlife...., what does that group think of us hunters....maybe time to stop drinking the kool-aid, dust off your suckers, and figure out if we do not work together as a group that all we hold near and dear may one day soon be gone.

 

[Straight Arrow]

"APF/APR has a goal of 3 million acres" I still don't understand how this is a threat to your ranch and your way of life. CMR Refuge is essentially a reserve and has been a boon to outfitters.
Nor do I get why you acknowledge their property rights but criticize employment of those rights.

I do get that the ranchers closing hunting think they are making a point to FWP, but what you seem to miss is that the Montana sportsmen are directly effected adversely and the animosity generated toward the ag community is likely more far reaching than any point made to FWP.

"if bison were treated like livestock" Montana Dept of LIvestock currently oversees bison, not FWP. Ranchers should be getting the message to Dept of Livestock. "Bison Brian" rashly, wrongly and abruptly moved the bison, but not without much discussion and planning. The bison were all certified brucellosis-free with the plan for continued testing. Fencing, containment, and neighbors' concerns were addressed at length. Continued monitoring of herd health is part of the deal. What more should be done to treat the bison like livestock?

Back in the day, when elk were reintroduced to the Breaks it was the generosity and hard work of ranchers that was critical to that wildlife project. Now it is really ironic that "conservative" ranchers are crowing about a "conservation group" stepping up to assist a program of the state ... again saving state dollars, much like those ranchers did with elk.

Of most concern to me is the rhetoric and the fear mongering going on, most of which is a result of skewed logic leading toward paranoia and such phrases as "fighting for their very survival." It's too bad the Governor doesn't step up and meet with the concerned ranchers to sort out what is fact and what is not. That's what I would push for. Again, pissing on hunters to attempt to get FWP's attention is dismally ineffective.

 

[Big Fin]

....maybe time to stop drinking the kool-aid, dust off your suckers, and figure out if we do not work together as a group that all we hold near and dear may one day soon be gone.

Eric - Your post is rather condescending. Maybe even more than condescending.

Most of us feel the same way as those NE Montana Sportsmen you talk about. We aren't drinking any Kool-aid. It is NOT a function of resident hunters outside your area knowing more than hunters in your area, or vice-versa. Whether you believe it or not, most hunters in other parts of the state are also conservative, including me. But, the continued assualt on hunting, fishing, and public land access by those representing the ag interests in this state are doing all they can to chase many hunters away from the conservative ideas.

You say we all need to work together. Sounds good.

When are these 63 landowners going to start doing that?

When are the most vocal and radical legislators from Eastern and Northeastern Montana going to start doing that?

What does closing property to hunting because you are pissed at the Governor have to do with working together.? Nothing.

What does passing legislative bills that hammer resident hunters and access have to do with working together? Nothing.

What does your neighbor(s) selling to a group such as APF/APR have to do with working together like you say? Nothing.

What does putting DU in the crosshairs and making them some sort of new punching bag for doing their mission work have to do with that? Nothing.

What does ..........

You call for us to join together. Sounds good.

Who in this landowner group is going to take some leadership on that and speak up against the vocal fringes?

Who of the conservative legislators is going to convince the likes of Barrett, Harris, Brenden, and other fringe legislators to start doing that?

Who in the landowner group is going to convince UPOM to remove themselves from the lawsuit to overturn the Montana Stream Access Law?

Who in the landowner group is .............

Lots of opportunities have come up to work together; bison, brucellosis, game management, increase public access, change the Republican "no net increase in public land" stance, etc. Yet, I have never heard a call from you or the landowners of joining together on the issues resident hunters might get some benefit from. Rather, those opportunities have been used by the far legislative fringe to take another whack at hunters.

And now, they come and ask us to join together.

I am one of the more landowner friendly hunters I know. I get taken to task at times for my supposed coziness with landowners. In spite of that, your comment in this post is hard to take seriously.

If you put yourself in the shoes of resident hunters it is pretty easy to see why they have lost a lot of concern on this and other issues where we could be a powerful ally with landowners. You talk about 63 ranches being closed to public hunting. You admit that it is because of the Governor and his bison policy.

Then you say this is supposedly "not aimed at sportsmen." Really?

The ditch bill to overturn Montana's Stream Access Law was supposedly "not aimed at sportsmen."

Everytime a punch is taken at hunters and anglers, we hear the same thing, "This is not aimed at sportsmen."

Reminds me of the guy in my hometown who used to beat the crap out of his dogs when the Vikings would lose a football game. Then he wondered why the dog never turned out to be much of a hunting partner. Go figure.

As far as I am concerned you guys can go it alone on this one. I detest how it happened; in the dark of night, against a court order, with the aid of Defenders, and all the things you mention.

That said, the response by landowners being the new paradigm for landowner tantrums these days, pisses me off. Until the more reasonable voices start representing the landowner community, I don't see too many conservative hunters like myself getting their panties in a bind on topics like this.

The landowner-sportsmen wedge has been there for a long time. I am just as pissed when some fringe hunting elements take whacks to drive the wedge deeper.

We all know landowners hold the trump card as owners of the land controlling access. Their most radical fringe elements are given the maul to take as many and as hard of whacks at the wedge as they want, with not a word spoken by the majority of the landowner community who from my experience, are some of the best folks you could ever meet.

Sorry to say it, but the response landowners gave on this one does nothing to get me up in arms on their behalf. You can count this potential ally as a non-combatant in this one.

Good luck. As long as your neighbors continue to grab the money that is being offerred to sell out, you are going to need all the luck you can get.

 

[Drake4]

Work together! Now that is funny. I support landowners and private property rights as much as anyone, but I don't know that you could find a bigger group of crybaby whiners if you tried. Talk about bitching and moaning at every little thing they disagree with.

Sure glad I hunt our thousands and thousands of acres of public land..I'll keep fighting to protect that. Good luck with your crying and temper tantrums...hope it works out for you.

Great post Randy.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I found this of particular disturbing nature....do any of you know who paid the tab for transporting said shaggie beasties? (i am sure you are thinking "who cares", which most of you may not).... The "conservation group" Defenders of Wildlife...., what does that group think of us hunters....maybe time to stop drinking the kool-aid, dust off your suckers, and figure out if we do not work together as a group that all we hold near and dear may one day soon be gone.

Donation made today on Defender's website. Sounds like they are doing good work in NE Montana.

The landowner-sportsmen wedge has been there for a long time. I am just as pissed when some fringe hunting elements take whacks to drive the wedge deeper.
.

Sorry Fin, but they have two choices, deal with moderates like you, or, they can deal with us on the fringe..... Just got back from elk hunting today in an area that some Welfare Rancher has been running his range maggots. Couldn't even smell the elk as the stink from the range maggots just hangs in that country.

I did love seeing the wolf tracks on top of the sheep tracks....

 

[The Hedgehog]

Kicking the dog when the cat pees on the floor -that pisses some dogs off. They might support dumping thousands of bison on the plains in northeastern MT. As for brucellocis, you never hear the ranchers with big elk hunt income complaining about the elk calving - which have equal risk of brucellocis.

The defenders - what a rotten anti-hunting group of limp-wristed hunter haters.. Ranchers must love them though, by these statisitics..

Ranchers take lots of cash from Defenders of wildlife fags

Republicans in MT are doing a good job steering some of us conservatives to vote left. Very sad.

Mocking Teddy R for forest land and National Parks.. what a super tool!

 

[Eric Albus]

greenhorn....anytime that a rancher can take something from a group that defends wolves and fights against our way of life, I say it is a good thing....afterall, when they(DoW) are spending $$ that is not in an anti-hunting campaign it is a good thing....unless you are a total idiot like "jose"....

I still say it is an easy thing to cast disparities and call names....When hiding behind an anyomous moniker(name).

Randy, these 63 landowners(and most of us in NE Mt) have worked to find a balance. Why don' t you use your vast list of contacts and find out what is really going on up here....try calling some of the ranchers who have pulled out of BM, or closed down their ranches to hunting....After a LIFETIME of allowing the PUBLIC to hunt???????? Try calling Ron Stoneberg(his number is listed) he is a former FWP biologist....and now ranches in south Valley County....Ask him, or his wife, what is happening, and why they took their ranch out of BM......then report back to us......maybe will shut up some of the lap dogs on here.

 

[tjones]

Game, set, match, Fin!

I get a kick out of the guys that think just cause they live in the middle of the fight they are the only ones that know anything about the battle.

 

[mtmiller]

Eric, could you clarify how pulling private lands from BM is impacting FWP? Could you also clarify how it is impacting me, a Montana sportsman? Seems obvious to me, but maybe I am missing something. Maybe you can also shotcut my phonecall and tell me what Stoney has shared with you? thanks in advance.....

 

[JoseCuervo]

greenhorn....anytime that a rancher can take something from a group that defends wolves and fights against our way of life, I say it is a good thing....afterall, when they(DoW) are spending $$ that is not in an anti-hunting campaign it is a good thing....unless you are a total idiot like "jose"....

I still say it is an easy thing to cast disparities and call names....When hiding behind an anyomous moniker(name).

Randy, these 63 landowners(and most of us in NE Mt) have worked to find a balance. Why don' t you use your vast list of contacts and find out what is really going on up here....try calling some of the ranchers who have pulled out of BM, or closed down their ranches to hunting....After a LIFETIME of allowing the PUBLIC to hunt???????? Try calling Ron Stoneberg(his number is listed) he is a former FWP biologist....and now ranches in south Valley County....Ask him, or his wife, what is happening, and why they took their ranch out of BM......then report back to us......maybe will shut up some of the lap dogs on here.

I thought these 63 landowners didn't want to talk to hunters? Are you now saying they are happy to whine about their problems to people that call, but don't want to allow hunters on their land to hunt public animals?

Just so we are all on the same page, how many of these 63 are Welfare Ranchers?

 

[Straight Arrow]

Eric, as mtmiller has requested, please try to explain. After three pages of posts, you still have most of us unable to understand. Please don't just call names and throw rhetorical bombs.

Sincerely attempt to make your case with factual information and logical statements ... not Kerry White bs. We don't get it and you have failed at making sense of it. Explain how shutting down hunting will effect FWP.

Also explain why the ranchers want to effect FWP regarding the bison when they should have a direct voice with Mont Dept of Livestock regarding the bison issue.

 

[Nemont]

Also explain why the ranchers want to effect FWP regarding the bison when they should have a direct voice with Mont Dept of Livestock regarding the bison issue.

Straight Arrow,

Read the memorandum of understanding. It is between the MFWP and the Fort Peck Tribes, the only requirement of the DOL is to provide Bison handly equipment and portable corrals once a year. The DOL has zero to say as these Bison now reside on a sovereign Reservation as pointed out by Buzz.

http://fwp.mt.gov/fwpDoc.html?id=55164

Again I don't like being locked out of lands I used to hunt but not much I can do about it. I did get to visit with both Ron and Rose Stoneberg for a couple of hours on Friday when they stopped by my office. Interesting conversation.

Nemont

 

[drahthaar]

Interesting conversation.

Nemont

Care to elaborate? Or was it all said in confidence?

 

[Eric Albus]

I can see your side of the issue....something I realize that most folks are unable to do, dis-engage themselves from their own little world and look at the issue from the other side.

Those 63 landowners(who all allowed access to the public) are very unhappy w/ FWP. The local sportsmen, like Nemont, understand the closing down is not aimed at them, but at FWP. The landowners are giving the sportsmen credit for understanding and they want to have them back their stance......now I can see the thanks that the landowners will get. You find out who your friends really are when these kinds of contentious issues occur. Most of these ranches will be open to the public again, most will allow hunting this fall. The show of solidarity in the paper is for FWP, and to show them that the landowning community is not happy about "free range bison".
Landowners are fearful of the thought of "free range bison". Who is going to be responsible for fixing the fences they tear up, who will be responsible for bison inter-breeding w/ cattle, and vice-versa? Who is going to pay for fixing up an irrigated field when 100 bison tromp and wallow in it? I have seen first hand what damage elk do, and that is bad enough to have to deal w/.

 

[shoots-straight]

I can see your side of the issue....something I realize that most folks are unable to do, dis-engage themselves from their own little world and look at the issue from the other side.

Those 63 landowners(who all allowed access to the public) are very unhappy w/ FWP. The local sportsmen, like Nemont, understand the closing down is not aimed at them, but at FWP. The landowners are giving the sportsmen credit for understanding and they want to have them back their stance......now I can see the thanks that the landowners will get. You find out who your friends really are when these kinds of contentious issues occur. Most of these ranches will be open to the public again, most will allow hunting this fall. The show of solidarity in the paper is for FWP, and to show them that the landowning community is not happy about "free range bison".
Landowners are fearful of the thought of "free range bison". Who is going to be responsible for fixing the fences they tear up, who will be responsible for bison inter-breeding w/ cattle, and vice-versa? Who is going to pay for fixing up an irrigated field when 100 bison tromp and wallow in it? I have seen first hand what damage elk do, and that is bad enough to have to deal w/.

Eric, the landowners are mad at MTFW&P's because the Bison where sent to Fort Belknap.

Pay attention here!

Brian Schweitzer made a campaign promise when he ran for office. That promise was to move the Bison issue along and do something for the "Shaggies" and for the people that support them. The grid lock that was the status was unacceptable to most Montanans.

He was the one that ordered MTFW&Ps, (which he controls) to move the Bison.

If you want to get at the people who created this bad situation, then come down on BS, and the Dept. of Livestock, and the federal government, for not working out solution to the whole thing.

. The answer to the Bison issue isn't my point here. The recourse of those 63 landowners is. Like I said before, I'm not sure if the Bison have enough land to roam, and not cause trouble. I'm not in favor of more fencing on our range lands. The winter of 2010 showed how devastating fences are, to our other wildlife.

So all those landowners are closing their lands, (lost opportunity for hunters) because of something they helped create, and something BS did.

So sportsman, that supported landowners, are loosing opportunity. Yea, and can feel the love. You think we're all going to join together on this and support those 63 ignorant, landowners? I don't think they are thinking things through very well. I thinks it's just a political statement and a strong arm tactic.

"For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction" What will that be? It won't be better for those landowners that's for sure.

Great Plan! You ever hear of mob mentality?

 

[The Hedgehog]

I think a better way would be a 63 landowner hunger strike or some other type of organized colon cleansing.

North eastern Montana buffalo hunger strike and enima. That might even make Fox News - no hunting signs aren't so noteworthy.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Eric and Nemont, we do understand the real concerns about "free range bison" and why the ranchers want to get the State's attention. We just don't think the lock-out of local and other Montana hunters is an effective strategy to get concerns addressed. As is apparent, it actually backfires in that it angers and alienates a large group (sportsmen) who might otherwise chime in as a supportive group to ensure concerns are fully and transparently vetted and acted upon.

I regret requesting a factual and logical explanation. As a friend once pointed out, "You can't apply logic where logic does not exist."

 

[Nemont]

Care to elaborate? Or was it all said in confidence?

I will let the Stoneberg's speak for themselves. Didn't hear anything remotely anti-hunter from either of them.

I had lunch on Sunday with one of the landowners who is on the lock out list, had a good visit and again came away with the feeling that right or wrong, the landowners feel they have no other way to get the attention of the FWP. The majority of hunters, not the ones on this board, but Joe Public hunter seems apathetic until their own little piece of hunting ground is not available.

So all those landowners are closing their lands, (lost opportunity for hunters) because of something they helped create, and something BS did.

So sportsman, that supported landowners, are loosing opportunity. Yea, and can feel the love. You think we're all going to join together on this and support those 63 ignorant, landowners?

Just curious how these landowners helped create the bison issue? I know most of the 63 and I wouldn't classify any of them as "ignorant". Many of them are dedicated hunters as well.

Nemont