Colorado Sheep/Goat/Moose Draw Results Thread

[Hawk Tuah]

Getting an education vs. being born at the right time to start applying for draws in Western states are completely different things. Someone applying for some of these preference point states today have close to a zero chance of ever drawing a tag even if they apply their entire life. They could apply for 50 years and not draw a tag, but someone who started 20 years ago is pretty much guaranteed a tag in the next couple years. That doesn't seem to have much to do with fairness anyway you slice it.

Your bottom scenario is most likely skewed the opposite way. I think more states will end up going to more of a pure lottery type drawing on the MSG type tags. The demographics have changed and there are way more people applying for these tags than there ever will be animals to fill them. If you do the math there is no way to get the current number of people through the system because there just aren't enough animals to go around. If you make it based on longevity that doesn't increase the number of animals, there still aren't enough to go around.

I disagree and think it will go the other way. I may be wrong. It can go either way and we both have valid points. We won't known until the future.

Idaho takes about just under $300 for a non-resident to apply for sheep. The best odds for 2019 were 0.7% for a unit that is on par with a Montana unlimited unit as far as sheep densities, access and terrain, but obviously less hunter pressure. All I mean is that beating the 0.7% won't get you hunting Unit 11 or 37.

At what point will people not want to put $300 down for a chance with no long term reward (point) for doing so? No one knows? 0.07? 0.007? The bubble will burst eventually if supply is stagnant and demand keeps growing everytime a flat-brimmed wearing Instagrammer makes western hunting look more macho.

With bonus systems I think people rationalize they are increasing their chances for the money they spend. For the record, I don't like straight preference. I just said it was more fair to those who have played the game.

I get the age part. I do. But don't forget that the guy with 30 points today won't be around to draw tags indefinitely...people grow too old to chase sheep, then they die.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

It seems like we want more bighorn sheep.

I put in for goat after seeing your ads!

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Keep that kind of stupid BS out of a good thread.

1. Lottery versus Bonus pt versus Pref: Pref points has been proven to only "be fair" if tags can be draw with 5pts or less. Then those system fall apart. If only the first group of people in the door ever can draw, like literally ever, not have a way better chance but are actually the only ones, then the system doesn't work aka isn't fair.

2.That is not why the changes were made. The upfront payment was dropped, as I have said, at @Oak has said, and as a bunch of other members who went to and/or streamed the commission meetings have said... because the process of administering that process was very expensive.

3. The no fee year was an anomaly that had to do with how and when fees could be added. It was not a government ploy for more money.

100% agree with @npaden


Interesting article from 1999

New preference point hunting system being implemented in state of Colorado

Hunters who have been waiting for their turn to take a shot at a Colorado bighorn sheep, mountain goat or moose may have a better chance at drawing a tag for one of these coveted hunts during the 2001 season.

www.craigdailypress.com

The change in the preference point system comes due to concern by resident hunters that the proportion of nonresident hunters drawing limited licenses, particularly in quality units, has increased to a level where the system is no longer fair to resident hunters.

“Residents were upset over the fact that nonresidents were drawing licenses after applying for only five or six years when some residents were waiting 15,” said Malmsbury.

“It is very unlikely that we’re going to get into a similar situation with elk and deer because in most units it only takes a few years to draw an elk or deer license,” said Malmsbury.

I wouldn't be so quick to call my comment on the socialism comparison "BS." Giving everyone the same thing regardless of what has been invested is the very definition of socialism bud. People expressing complete entitlement to having what others worked for and have invested in longer is the modern millennial twist to it.

You're entitled to your opinion, however entitled that opinion may be. If I started putting into CO this year, sure I'd prefer a random draw, but I would not go altering my view of what true fairness is to justify it. It is ok to say, "I want a random draw because it benefits me most," instead of changing fairness to the socialistic view and then acting offended when someone recognizes that.

I am all over the board with 3-15 for sheep, 3-4 for goat and 3-2 for moose. Bonus squared would help me for sheep, but random would be better for the other two for me....still doesn't change the definition of fair though.

Also, you have way more faith in the motives of your state government than I do, but that is a personal thing.

Colorado has great sheep, goat and moose hunting. I actually think their draw system is decent, which I have stated. I will continue to put in and play the game, hoping for a tag. No reason to get all bent out of shape simply because I prefer another system.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@IdahoNick injecting politics into threads usually derails them, is counter productive, and gets people banned.

The boss has also expressed he wants us to drop generational (boomer, genx millennial) battles.

You are absolutely entitled to your view point, I just saying watch the phrasing.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

@IdahoNick injecting politics into threads usually derails them, is counter productive, and gets people banned.

The boss has also expressed he wants us to drop generational (boomer, genx millennial) battles.

You are absolutely entitled to your view point, I just saying watch the phrasing.

Fair enough. Understood. Will do.

Best of luck in the draws this year. A bunch of state results coming up.

 

[Dsnow9]

There may be an embedded sales pitch.

Nice podcast, well done. “May be embedded” is a bit of an understatement, you made really good points. Round four for more sheep!