AggieHunter
Well-known member
I feel like a lot of states make you purchase a hunting license as well as pay some high application fees. Other states also have a similar point fee.
Colorado Sheep/Goat/Moose Draw Results Thread
- Thread starter Hawk Tuah
- Start date
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
MSG for a family of four would run you the cost of a down payment on a house lol
I mean... it made my draw odds worse to get rid of fronting the money, but it’s way more egalitarian.
sneakem
Well-known member
I mean in reality you if it took you an average of 15 years (this is likely statistically low) to draw on average for MSG under the new system acquiring points you're likely accumulating roughly $1125 dollars of unrefundable fees compared to the old system ($50 pp, $9 app, 1/3 of $50 license... x 15 years). That's per person per species... and you haven't even payed for the license... $300 dollars now vs $1500 down the road... Seems like a higher interest 15 year loan to me...
I get it that it seems more egalitarian and makes it seem more affordable... reality is the math sucks and CPW is the bank...
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D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
So it’s more “fair” that only a family that can front 20-30k a year should be able to apply for MSG tags?
Im not arguing that the actual cost more, or that all in a MSG is way more than the sticker cost when you look at app fees. I agree with all of that.
The previous system did exclude anyone who didn’t have a lot of money. That’s why the number of apps exploded, the addition of the extra fees did lower the number of apps... but the number is still way above what it was before they got rid of the upfront cost.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Call me old fashion, but I liked the days of fronting the coin across the board.
Separated the tire kickers from the serious hunters in a hurry.
Separated the tire kickers from the serious hunters in a hurry.
sneakem
Well-known member
I spent plenty of years with a balance of less than $20 in my bank account every week of the year after paying bills and buying groceries and managed to afford to apply... every year.... and I made very little money, I never complained about fair.
Everyone would like it to be easier but some want it more than others and will do whatever it takes....
Killing a sheep or goat will likely take that same type of dedication.... moose less so but a much stronger back...
It's fine that you feel this way... You see white... I see gray...
I didn't apply for MSG anywhere until I was 28 years old, because I couldn't afford it. Honestly, the thought never crossed my mind that the system wasn't "fair" because I was priced out. I thought I just needed to make more money if I wanted to play those games. Same reason my hunting rig is 12 years old, I don't own a boat or a camper, etc., etc. If I want those toys, I need to find a better job.
Edit to say that my tradeoff for those toys listed above is to apply for big game licenses and tags in 8 western states. That's how I've prioritized.
Edit to say that my tradeoff for those toys listed above is to apply for big game licenses and tags in 8 western states. That's how I've prioritized.
Most sheep and goat hunts and any situation where a moose is dead and not laying on a road will make that separation quick, too.
I don’t disagree conceptually (and I front thousands to your fine state and NM every year), but the agency’s health as a self-funded enterprise is better served with a pay-later model.
I wish it was a $1 lottery, no points, once in a lifetime, 90/10 R/NR split. But at the end of the day the vast majority of those of us that want to hunt a sheep won’t draw a tag in our own state. We can only hope to make our very small odds a bit better.
There’s a big dichotomy with these 3 species.
Do you manage purely because of biology? If so, the best way to biologically improve is to get more critters on the mountain. That takes a lot of money so the program and the tags should reflect that.
Do you manage as more or less a once in a lifetime opportunity that is biologically neutral (killing an individual old ram, billy or bull is basically a non event biologically at the micro-scale of an individual tag)? Then it should be cheap and equal for all.
The agencies all seem to have aligned in the middle. Offer enough tags where it’s got some level of equity at a price that supports the resource and gives some hope for the future but doesn’t completely Blow all the customers out of the purchasing pool. Throw the customers a bone with some points that raise their odds gradually from 0.5% to 2%, be completely capitalistic with a handful (auction tags), democratic with others (raffles and Unlimited tags). Build your top line and your customer base at the same time.
I imagine stuff like this keeps guys like Oak awake at night.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Well now that we’ve got all that out of the way, credit card hits tomorrow?
Friday, I believe.
It’s almost free for residents to apply for MSG in Montana.
That’s how you get people with Beartooth or Crazy mtn goat tags that never hunt the tag because they don’t even know what they applied for and aren’t physically or more likely, aren’t mentally capable. Or it’s how you get a 3 year old ram killed off the side of the road in the breaks on opening day, so the tag holder can get back to road hunting bugling rag horn elk. Happens every year.
Somewhere between free and fronting thousands is probably a decent middle ground.
That’s how you get people with Beartooth or Crazy mtn goat tags that never hunt the tag because they don’t even know what they applied for and aren’t physically or more likely, aren’t mentally capable. Or it’s how you get a 3 year old ram killed off the side of the road in the breaks on opening day, so the tag holder can get back to road hunting bugling rag horn elk. Happens every year.
Somewhere between free and fronting thousands is probably a decent middle ground.
MtnRambler
Active member
Exactly. My earlier point is that it is now unequivocally more expensive in Colorado to draw MSG by the time you draw. I'm not arguing that it is a good or bad thing, but it is certainly more expensive over the long-term.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Look on the bright side, that 3 year old ram killed off the side of the road probably scores more than the 9.5 year old ram I busted my ass 26 days for in Wyoming.
You're right though, things like that happen every year. I remember when Petty Creek was really booming for sheep, a first year resident of Montana drew and killed a 1/2 curl ram on opening day because he heard from a "friend" that younger rams were better eating. With "friends" like that....
S.Dak Drifter
Member
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2018
- Messages
- 63
Jeepers someone needs new friends !!!
Khunter
Well-known member
in the next hour or so someone will be posting
”OMG I drew sheep/goat/skunk....”
good luck and check those credit cards for pending charges. In. y experience only thing better than knowing you drew a OIL type tag is knowing a mocrosecond sooner than if you just waiting for official draw results. LOL. Am I right?
”OMG I drew sheep/goat/skunk....”
good luck and check those credit cards for pending charges. In. y experience only thing better than knowing you drew a OIL type tag is knowing a mocrosecond sooner than if you just waiting for official draw results. LOL. Am I right?
Bluffgruff
Well-known member
I got a hit!
Khunter
Well-known member
For a booner size bonus point?
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Mmmm pref points
Did you get 1 or 2 hits? I just checked my card and I have 1 hit for a point. Applied for both though.
