Zach
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Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission Meeting - January 15 - 16, 2020
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COEngineer
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I kind of skipped around and heard random crap like, "diversity/inclusion", "driving in Vietnam", "lab puppy training", "blah blah blah" in the first hour. Is this a meeting or social hour?
D
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So this is the first commission meeting you've listened in on I take it
COEngineer
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The 2nd and 3rd hours have been much more on point. A little scary how many anti-hunters (HSUS, "cat ladies", etc) have spoken up compared to the number of pro-hunters. The CPW's (staff and commissioners) replies have been very gracious and deferential, despite the bizarre (I don't know how else to describe them) comments from the anti's.
D
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Limited tags for Archery tags by sex in E-16, E-24, E-30, and E-31, passed unanimously
D
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A bunch of new moose hunts for both bulls and cows
Interesting, were quotas discussed at all or is that something that happens at a later date? Just wondering how much of a reduction in actual hunter numbers they will see.
Zach
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Don't forget the bear lady...
I've tried to listen to most of it, but missed some due to calls and meetings. I think unless someone from the public has some pretty good evidence that the CPW Bio's are wrong, they are going to side with them.
D
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This was just a discussion of the season structure, quotas are separate.
Zach
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1/16/19 feed
D
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Worst podcast ever
COEngineer
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A few notes I took (I listened to most of it - they were having audio problems, so some of it was not available and some was garbled).
1. CPW staff estimated that a 1% reduction in elk tags available equates to ~$1M reduction in revenues for CPW (that's a lot and shows how dependent the agency currently is on elk hunters).
2. Bighorn sheep tag availability is going up from 309 to 319 (4 rams, 6 ewes).
3. HSUS and some "NJ cat ladies" (as Rinella would call them) spoke out against any increases in mountain lion and bear licenses, calling them "unsustainable" and suggesting that more predators on the landscape would fix all of our problems, including CWD. One lady said she was "speaking for the animals since they can't speak for themselves." Another lady insinuated that hunting lions with dogs causes lions to attack dog owners. A guy tried to sound reasonable and suggested that CPW doesn't know how many bears/lions are out there so they are being negligent if they increase harvest. Brian Dreher (CPW Lead Terrestial Wildlife Biologist (?)) replied to that last commenter with some well-reasoned thoughts. Overall, I was impressed with how the CPW commissioners and staff were polite to everyone and replied to the reasonable questions/comments without emotion (I think I would have had a hard time not getting pissed off). If I am ever at one of these mtgs, I hope I have the courage to stand up and reply to the crazy cat ladies, "What have you, or any organization that you belong to, ever done for wildlife? Maybe instead of standing here making emotional pleas to "stop the killing" you should volunteer with CPW or any of the organizations that are doing real habitat work, like RMEF, BHA, etc and actually make a positive impact."
4. As wlllm1313 pointed out above, several GMUs in the SW corner of the State are going to draw-only for archery elk tags. A representative of CO Bowhunters Association spoke up. It sounded like the commission had received quite a few comments from bowhunters complaining that draw-only archery elk was unfair because there are still OTC rifle season (bull only) tags in those GMUs. Personally, I think that's a poor argument since bowhunters get 4 weeks to hunt, including during the rut. If anything, I hope they expand the draw-only areas because the place I have been hunting is on the edge of this new draw-only area and I'm afraid the OTC guys will all end up in my area.
5. There were a lot of comments on a proposed ban of coyote and prairie dog hunting/shooting contests. I've been around for a while and never heard of such a contest. Is this a red herring, just to distract from real issues? Or is it intended to be some small victory the anti's can point to?
6. There were 2 license suspension cases being appealed. One guy had been busted trespassing while hunting elk without a license and a year later poaching geese (while trespassing, while drinking and smoking pot, and without a license) and actually showed up in person to appeal! He basically said he didn't know he was trespassing, that he shot the geese elsewhere, and the 5 empty beer cans in his backpack were from earlier, and not while he was poaching and trespassing. He has paid a total of ~$500 in fines and lost his privileges for 4 years.
The 2nd guy killed a buck antelope and a buck mule deer, cut the antlers off (left the meat to waste), drove them to FL to his taxidermist, got busted, paid ~$2,000 in fines, lied at his hearing about having been fined for wildlife violations in NC and FL previously, and paid someone to represent him at this appeal! His appeal was also denied and he got a lifetime suspension of hunting/fishing privileges. A commissioner pointed out that he is a felon, so it's illegal for him to possess a firearm, so his hunting days are over regardless of his appeal.
1. CPW staff estimated that a 1% reduction in elk tags available equates to ~$1M reduction in revenues for CPW (that's a lot and shows how dependent the agency currently is on elk hunters).
2. Bighorn sheep tag availability is going up from 309 to 319 (4 rams, 6 ewes).
3. HSUS and some "NJ cat ladies" (as Rinella would call them) spoke out against any increases in mountain lion and bear licenses, calling them "unsustainable" and suggesting that more predators on the landscape would fix all of our problems, including CWD. One lady said she was "speaking for the animals since they can't speak for themselves." Another lady insinuated that hunting lions with dogs causes lions to attack dog owners. A guy tried to sound reasonable and suggested that CPW doesn't know how many bears/lions are out there so they are being negligent if they increase harvest. Brian Dreher (CPW Lead Terrestial Wildlife Biologist (?)) replied to that last commenter with some well-reasoned thoughts. Overall, I was impressed with how the CPW commissioners and staff were polite to everyone and replied to the reasonable questions/comments without emotion (I think I would have had a hard time not getting pissed off). If I am ever at one of these mtgs, I hope I have the courage to stand up and reply to the crazy cat ladies, "What have you, or any organization that you belong to, ever done for wildlife? Maybe instead of standing here making emotional pleas to "stop the killing" you should volunteer with CPW or any of the organizations that are doing real habitat work, like RMEF, BHA, etc and actually make a positive impact."
4. As wlllm1313 pointed out above, several GMUs in the SW corner of the State are going to draw-only for archery elk tags. A representative of CO Bowhunters Association spoke up. It sounded like the commission had received quite a few comments from bowhunters complaining that draw-only archery elk was unfair because there are still OTC rifle season (bull only) tags in those GMUs. Personally, I think that's a poor argument since bowhunters get 4 weeks to hunt, including during the rut. If anything, I hope they expand the draw-only areas because the place I have been hunting is on the edge of this new draw-only area and I'm afraid the OTC guys will all end up in my area.
5. There were a lot of comments on a proposed ban of coyote and prairie dog hunting/shooting contests. I've been around for a while and never heard of such a contest. Is this a red herring, just to distract from real issues? Or is it intended to be some small victory the anti's can point to?
6. There were 2 license suspension cases being appealed. One guy had been busted trespassing while hunting elk without a license and a year later poaching geese (while trespassing, while drinking and smoking pot, and without a license) and actually showed up in person to appeal! He basically said he didn't know he was trespassing, that he shot the geese elsewhere, and the 5 empty beer cans in his backpack were from earlier, and not while he was poaching and trespassing. He has paid a total of ~$500 in fines and lost his privileges for 4 years.
The 2nd guy killed a buck antelope and a buck mule deer, cut the antlers off (left the meat to waste), drove them to FL to his taxidermist, got busted, paid ~$2,000 in fines, lied at his hearing about having been fined for wildlife violations in NC and FL previously, and paid someone to represent him at this appeal! His appeal was also denied and he got a lifetime suspension of hunting/fishing privileges. A commissioner pointed out that he is a felon, so it's illegal for him to possess a firearm, so his hunting days are over regardless of his appeal.
D
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@COEngineer really appreciate you taking the time to do the highlights
Hilde's comments came off as pretty selfish to me, I was very grateful for the two bow hunters that spoke out and stressed the importance of our herds above everything else and that going limited was simply giving CPW the tools they need to manage them.
Hilde's comments came off as pretty selfish to me, I was very grateful for the two bow hunters that spoke out and stressed the importance of our herds above everything else and that going limited was simply giving CPW the tools they need to manage them.
COEngineer
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Exactly. I don't know if you listen to MeatEater podcasts, but they were in that area, I believe, this last season and they were appalled at the number of hunters they ran into. I think Janis used to guide in that area, so he had expectations of lower pressure. I don't remember the exact years, but if I remember right, one of the CPW staff said something the number of archery hunters went from 300 to 3,000 over a decade or so. My personal experience reflects this same increase.
D
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My suspicion is that they will set the quota such that draw odds will be 100% but still 1st choice. Less people will hunt there because they 1. Want to get a pref point and hunt 2. They will want to be able to bop around between units.
I don't see it crowding other units, to be honest.
D
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I believe he guided in the vail valley, though maybe he floated around. Yeah 1990 to 2018 I think is what they said 53 has has a similar explosion as have a number of other units.
At this point I've hunted elk in Archery, Muzzy, 1st, 2nd, and 4th... and I think Archery is definitely the most crowded both with hunters and other users.
COEngineer
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I guess I don't follow your logic. If fewer people will hunt those draw-only areas and your numbered points are true, how will that not lead to more hunters (thus more crowding) in other units that are still OTC?
