Colorado “Managing Wildlife in an Era of Mutualism.”

[Benfromalbuquerque]

This calls for Federal intervention. It is time to set a judicial precedent on the NAM as an inalienable right. Also, more immediate, it is through the Federal Pittman-Robertson act that -billions in conservation funding- comes from the Wildlife Restoration Trust Fund. Take away that source of funding then what will replace it? Conservation through commerce well outspends volunteer conservation.

 

[Shodan]

This calls for Federal intervention. It is time to set a judicial precedent on the NAM as an inalienable right. Also, more immediate, it is through the Federal Pittman-Robertson act that -billions in conservation funding- comes from the Wildlife Restoration Trust Fund. Take away that source of funding then what will replace it? Conservation through commerce well outspends volunteer conservation.

Barking up the wrong tree... If the Feds intervene it's typically with more "assault rifle" bans after another crackpot shooting. Even if the weapons used were not "assault rifles" - not even by the feds' grossly stretched definition. They don't care about hunting until they done with "assault rifles" and go for bolt-actions and shotguns as well.

 

[old270hunter]

I apologize for for all our CA liberal whackadoos invading CO. It’s only a matter of time before your state policies mirror this disaster in CA.

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

Barking up the wrong tree... If the Feds intervene it's typically with more "assault rifle" bans after another crackpot shooting. Even if the weapons used were not "assault rifles" - not even by the feds' grossly stretched definition. They don't care about hunting until they done with "assault rifles" and go for bolt-actions and shotguns as well.

Welcome to HT! More postings gets you more access. So your handle is curious, are you first dan or IT?

 

[Shodan]

Welcome to HT! More postings gets you more access. So your handle is curious, are you first dan or IT?

Thanks. I see you've looked up nickname? Well it originally came from the 1999 Shodan from System Shock 2. Then I kind of stuck with it as an internet alter-ego of sorts, but don't try to see more meaning in it than there is, heh.

 

[CO Birdman]

It is alarming, his husband is a big time animal rights activist and Polis is certainly a wolf in sheep's clothing. Colorado is circling the drain...

That explains Polis giving in to the Animal Rights folks on "free range eggs". All eggs in Colorado must be "Free Range" by 2024 I think is the date. If you have compared the price of free range eggs vs. regular eggs you will see a large difference. I guess poor folks will just have to go to oat meal! Forget those ads about "hunger in America"!
Oh, and don't forget about the ban on plastic bags at the grocery store. They now cost 10 cents each with 5 cents going to the grocery store (that used to give them away) and 5 cents going to the Government. This is supposed to eliminate plastic bags being strewn all over the landscape. Guess what happened? In talking to the grocery employees, people are just continuing to use the plastic bags and paying the 10 cents. So I guess it is just another tax which is called a "fee". I have noticed that it makes it easier to steal at the self checkout stations!!

 

[CO Birdman]

They are now called "Parks and Wildlife", and one of the perks that came with the change is the ability to hunt in the State Parks. There are some good waterfowling spots along the Colorado River here in Grand Junction. You can hunt waterfowl by reserving a designated blind. I don't know who picked the spots but they suck! To get to them you need to park in designated parking lots, then walk the paved Riverfront Trail to access your blind. All day there will be bicycles, dog walkers and kids on electric scooters going up and down that paved trail. Oh, and you must have your retriever on a leash at all times! Good luck with that!

 

[Shodan]

That explains Polis giving in to the Animal Rights folks on "free range eggs". All eggs in Colorado must be "Free Range" by 2024 I think is the date. If you have compared the price of free range eggs vs. regular eggs you will see a large difference. I guess poor folks will just have to go to oat meal! Forget those ads about "hunger in America"!
Oh, and don't forget about the ban on plastic bags at the grocery store. They now cost 10 cents each with 5 cents going to the grocery store (that used to give them away) and 5 cents going to the Government. This is supposed to eliminate plastic bags being strewn all over the landscape. Guess what happened? In talking to the grocery employees, people are just continuing to use the plastic bags and paying the 10 cents. So I guess it is just another tax which is called a "fee". I have noticed that it makes it easier to steal at the self checkout stations!!

Well, one can be a hunter and try to care about the environment by minimizing plastic waste at the same time... I prefer paper bags for instance. Reuse them as trash bags afterwards. But - I agree that the gov. should NOT just push additional taxes like this $.05 / paper bag thing - under the label of green transformation or whatever. They don't give a damn about the environment.

 

[SAJ-99]

They don't give a damn about the environment.

They? Who is they? You participate in electing them so you should demand they care about the environment.

 

[stk]

Mutualism? Does this mean the elk are going to be allowed to start hunting us? I can’t support that until I see what the tag allocations are going to look like.

 

[wolfpup]

That explains Polis giving in to the Animal Rights folks on "free range eggs". All eggs in Colorado must be "Free Range" by 2024 I think is the date. If you have compared the price of free range eggs vs. regular eggs you will see a large difference. I guess poor folks will just have to go to oat meal! Forget those ads about "hunger in America"!
Oh, and don't forget about the ban on plastic bags at the grocery store. They now cost 10 cents each with 5 cents going to the grocery store (that used to give them away) and 5 cents going to the Government. This is supposed to eliminate plastic bags being strewn all over the landscape. Guess what happened? In talking to the grocery employees, people are just continuing to use the plastic bags and paying the 10 cents. So I guess it is just another tax which is called a "fee". I have noticed that it makes it easier to steal at the self checkout stations!!

This whole chicken thing was what I meant with the disconnect in agriculture. There was many things with this legislation that affected most all livestock production. Coincidentally in predominately ag producing counties, Polis did not win those counties, but front range and ski towns where the influx of out of state transplants have flocked, he won.

 

[Shodan]

They? Who is they? You participate in electing them so you should demand they care about the environment.

They - politicians.

I cannot "demand" anything. I can only advocate my values to the people I come in contact with, like here.
And, yeah, I can try vote. And I did vote when given the (relatively rare) opportunity. I voted for Trump, and I voted for Wayne Williams as the Colorado Springs Mayor a couple months ago... And in both elections - well we got sleepy Joe in 2020; and now last month we got Yemi Mobolade as Colorado Springs mayor We already see how Joe is doing... As for Yemi... Okay, okay - I'll be optimistic until proven otherwise!

But I believe elections are rigged/FUBAR, and regardless of that - I don't think politicians can or should have try to enforce change of people's habit or behavior.
It's neither Trump's nor Wayne Williams's job to encourage people to care about trivialities like minimizing plastic bag usage. Or minimizing hunting. Which some might lump into the same bit as "environment-preserving" policies.

I see it like this - if I ask politicians to "care about the environment" (meaning, in my opinion, promoting 4-bin recycling cans installed around the city instead of 1-dumpster-takes-it-all) - then some anti-hunter would see that as an opportunity to promote hunting restrictions. And something's telling me that if both topic get voted on by the public - I'd get outvoted.

So, I'm not sure if attracting more social attention on the political level will help more than it can hurt our cause... If I think we'll be outvoted - best to not bring up the issue in the first place?

 

[Shodan]

Mutualism? Does this mean the elk are going to be allowed to start hunting us? I can’t support that until I see what the tag allocations are going to look like.

Perhaps not elk - but mountain lions... and any theoretically remaining wolves and grizzlies.
AFAIK any of those get capital penalty nationwide, without any trial or jury, for even a failed attempt of hunting humans?
It would be interesting to see anyone argue that a confirmed human-eating predator let live because "he's just doing the natural behavior for it's species!" or something along those lines...

 

[stk]

O

Perhaps not elk - but mountain lions... and any theoretically remaining wolves and grizzlies.
AFAIK any of those get capital penalty nationwide, without any trial or jury, for even a failed attempt of hunting humans?
It would be interesting to see anyone argue that a confirmed human-eating predator let live because "he's just doing the natural behavior for it's species!" or something along those lines...

Happened recently in Italy

Bear that killed man in Italy had previously attacked two others | Italy | The Guardian

Female bear that killed Andrea Papi close to mountain village last week attacked a father and son in 2020

amp.theguardian.com

 

[one ate E grain]

I can't imagine anything improving policy wise in CO. Polis has set the tone, urban Democrats look to control both sides of the legislature for the foreseeable future and they've already packed all relevant boards and committees. Not that Polis or Dems are bad mind you, it's just that they know very little about hunting and if issues are presented to them in the right way they will vote against all lion, wolf, bear, hunting at a minimum.

Polis is very bright, good natured, and understands how to work the levers of power. His husband is a radical animal rights defender. It would be much better if Polis overreached by supporting a gun ban or something. He'd never make that mistake.

Frankly I doubt it would be possible to organize and change the direction of things. Fifteen years ago we might have passed a right to hunt law, not anymore.

I'll probably be able to fill the freezer until I'm too old (too soon) too bad about future generations.

 

[hossblur]

I love the bush hippies "free range eggs, chicken", etc.

Then the same bush hippies seek to end pheasant hunting.

Gotta eat grass fed beef, then they end elk hunting.

Waking up every day as a lib has got to be exhausting, trying g to keep track of all the stupidity that trends daily in that circle.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I like how they target reducing wild animals for human benefit while conveniently displacing wild animals to raise grain for livestock, and graze livestock, which most of them eat.

 

[Pucky Freak]

“societal values toward wildlife have shifted in the United States toward more of a “mutualist” perspective, meaning people are more focused on wildlife protection and compassionate management”

I am really struggling to understand the mutualist view. Perhaps someone has some insight into how it can make sense?

Here’s how I view wildlife management:

-There were established ecosystems across the Americas prior to the arrival of humans.

-As humans colonized the land, it ushered in a mass extinction, mostly of megafauna.

-A second mass extinction event began with European immigration in the 15th century.

-In the late 1800’s and early 1900’s an increasing number of people desired to slow, halt, and even reverse the mass extinction by focusing on habitat and wildlife management.

-Through the rest of the 20th century we restored, managed, and protected wildlife and habitat on an unprecedented scale, largely through funds generated from hunting. Meanwhile, new threats to wildlife and habitat grew as we continued to modify natural landscapes.

-In the 21st century there is a far broader base of support for maintaining wildlife and habitat, making hunters a small minority of the total base. However, hunters continue to fund a disproportionately large share of wildlife and habitat management.

-Nearly every ecosystem in the US is now highly disrupted as a result of human activity. Habitat oftentimes exists in small fragments, and there are token populations of many wildlife species which used to be far more abundant.

-In order to preserve species and historic habitat, humans must continue to actively manage both. If we take our hands off the wheel, habitats and species disappear.

-If you end hunting, a massive alternative funding mechanism for managing wildlife and habitat is necessary.

-If you end hunting, you destroy the segment of the population who values habitat and wildlife more than any other advocacy group of similar size or larger size.

-Hands off management is impossible in today’s world, if we care about keeping species from going extinct. The only way to restore non-human “natural” management is to restore the pre-Columbian habitat, and relocate the whole human population from North America.

-Culling animals from an ecosystem is now an essential component of successful wildlife and habitat management. If you ended deer hunting in Iowa within 10 years deer would swarm across the landscape like locusts, destroying everything and causing a ton of motor vehicle collisions.

-If you eliminate hunting, animals are then culled by paid professionals via sharpshooting, and trapping. The only the difference between paying someone to shoot and trap and allowing the public to hunt and trap is the former is funded by taxpayers and the latter actually pays the government for the opportunity.

Hunting by humans in NA is only an unnatural activity if we turn back the clock to the Pleistocene, which we cannot do. Humans have been part of ecosystems in the Americas for thousands of years. We hunt, fish, trap, gather, and modify landscapes, today just like we did 10k years ago. I’d you want prudent and sustainable support for wild things and wild places, hunters are a fantastic asset, and also an involved member of ecosystems and animals.

Lastly, wild animals live violent and competitive lives. They often starve, kill, or injure one another or get ripped apart by predators. Shooting an animal vastly shortens that animal’s suffering.

So given all this, how is eliminating hunting a net positive for the antis?

 

[Shodan]

So does anyone have recordings or other speeches from this conference? At face value, there's no mention of "hunting" there, and for the topic outlined - hunters are the ones MOST interested in advancing. And even the top sponsor for the event is "CO Fish and Wildlife service":

Pathways 2023 – Managing Wildlife in an Era of Mutualism

sites.warnercnr.colostate.edu

I'd really like to read about what was actually discussed and proposed there before jumping to conclusions. It might be that hunting is seen as part of this "mutualism", as opposed to i.e. caged chickens or disturbing nature.

I mean, if someone actually does what they preach and wants to preserve wildlife - one would look at the charts showing what kinds human activity causes loss of wildlife in the first place.
Upon realizing that - they might find that hunters are the MOST interested in actually conserving wildlife and improving it's habitats, and the ones funding the work (by $ or directly contributing labor) that actually executes the "mutualism" - by building and improving wildlife habitats.