Caribou Gear

Colorado Lion and Bobcat Ballot Initiative Update

I hope the "average" Colorado hunter sees the writing on the wall. Its the average hunter that allows these ballots measures to get past. Thinking this doesn't affect me, I don't hunt mountain lions.

I deal with this all the time in Montana, I go to work and talk about things Fwp or the legislature is trying to do and no one has a clue.
I hope this doesn't get past.
It’s very tough reading on HT people who are blatantly against trapping or against the increase in hound hunting opportunity in Montana. Certainly does not help the cause when fellow hunters are opposed.
 
Does the "right to hunt" legislation prevent the banning of trapping, or hunting/baiting of lions/bears/etc, or the use of hunting lions with dogs?
 
Does the "right to hunt" legislation prevent the banning of trapping, or hunting/baiting of lions/bears/etc, or the use of hunting lions with dogs?

makes ya wonder.

probably only questions that can be answered by a state supreme court, depending on how the legislation is written
 
Does the "right to hunt" legislation prevent the banning of trapping, or hunting/baiting of lions/bears/etc, or the use of hunting lions with dogs?
To a degree yes.

For Wisconsin: When something comes up, such as "hey we want to ban running black bears with hounds", the very first line of defense is as hunters and those politicians representing us we can point directly to the state constitution. There are only 26 defined rights in WI and hunting being one of them.

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"...subject only to reasonable restrictions" is then what will get fought. The group trying to ban running black bears with hounds will have to prove their cause that it is a reasonable restriction which is very hard to do.

I'll have to research exact cases but I remember this happening once about a decade ago where they tried to make it illegal to run black bears with dogs and I remember the fight didn't last long.
 
In the recent legislative session in Montana, it was attempted to put the right to hunt, fish and trap on the ballot for a constitutional amendment.


It didn't make it, but I'd expect it to be back in a year. It used the language, "current means and methods", and I heard a lot of assertions about what this could potentially mean. Lawyers use language down the line to support things one may not like. I asked a lot of questions about it that I couldn't get clear answers to, which personally made me uncertain about it.


It’s very tough reading on HT people who are blatantly against trapping or against the increase in hound hunting opportunity in Montana. Certainly does not help the cause when fellow hunters are opposed.

One can hunt and trap and support it as I do. I think one could support hound hunting as I do, and yet be perfectly valid and sound in a position of not wanting to increase hound hunting opportunity in Montana. I suppose there's a lotta nuance in it.

I hope Colorado keeps their cat hunting.
 
In the recent legislative session in Montana, it was attempted to put the right to hunt, fish and trap on the ballot for a constitutional amendment.


It didn't make it, but I'd expect it to be back in a year. It used the language, "current means and methods", and I heard a lot of assertions about what this could potentially mean. Lawyers use language down the line to support things one may not like. I asked a lot of questions about it that I couldn't get clear answers to, which personally made me uncertain about it.




One can hunt and trap and support it as I do. I think one could support hound hunting as I do, and yet be perfectly valid and sound in a position of not wanting to increase hound hunting opportunity in Montana. I suppose there's a lotta nuance in it.

I hope Colorado keeps their cat hunting.
Is it not in there already per C-41?

 
We lost the wolf initiative by a very slim margin, 50.9%:49.1%, these things can be defeated but they are an uphill battle with the voting demographics of this state
Sadly, in your state its likely to only get worse with the uphill battle getting steeper as the urban populations there continue to skyrocket. I'm rooting for you guys and have tried to help where I could.
 
Well, given your apparent lack of knowledge about the effort Colorado sportsmen are giving to fight this attempt to ban cat hunting, I think your blanket statement is BS. What are you doing for Colorado? If you'd like to do something from Idaho, here's a link where you can put your money where your mouth is.
Donate today

When we were dealing with an attack on hound hunting in Idaho, I was pretty active. My comments were read at the Boise commissioner meeting (although not heeded), I was vocal in meetings, and when I felt the hound community was doing an inadequate job of getting the information to the general public (who I thought could be valuable allies) I wrote the attached press release and sent it to media all over the state. It was followed with several interviews and articles (some of the links are below) which would not have happened had I not taken action. I probably did more to bring the lunacy of the IDFG proposals to the public than perhaps anyone else in my state. Non-hunters often agreed with me, but our battle was against deer hunters...and we lost. I can't do every state though, as much as I wish I could.

Lion kill in my region went from 22 females and perhaps that many males on a normal year to about 140 lions last year if I recall.

Anyway, do whatever you want for your state. It sounds like you are plenty happy with the participation of hunters in defending hound hunting. Great to hear.

My suspicion from past experiences that I've either been involved in, or watched from afar, is that the majority of hunters do not care about speaking up for hound hunting because they don't personally participate. If you think that assumption is BS, that's fine. I disagree.

Interestingly, this new Colorado proposal is even more dangerous than the initial. First it was "stop hunting cats," and now it has morphed to, "stop trophy hunting, and we will start with cats."

And thank God those geniuses included the lynx, because it is not like those already have federal protection...






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This reminds me of how most hound hunters hate trappers and refuse to support them.

I’ve watched trapping rights be taken away over the last several decades. The average hunter doesn’t really care because it doesn’t affect them.

Hopefully the measure is stopped before it makes it to the polls. The last thing we need is more ballot box biology.
In my experience, almost every hound hunter I know has trapped, and probably 1/4 to 1/3 actively trap regularly.

I don't think houndsmen are the worst enemy of alternate means of take.
 
When we were dealing with an attack on hound hunting in Idaho, I was pretty active. My comments were read at the Boise commissioner meeting (although not heeded), I was vocal in meetings, and when I felt the hound community was doing an inadequate job of getting the information to the general public (who I thought could be valuable allies) I wrote the attached press release and sent it to media all over the state. It was followed with several interviews and articles (some of the links are below) which would not have happened had I not taken action. I probably did more to bring the lunacy of the IDFG proposals to the public than perhaps anyone else in my state. Non-hunters often agreed with me, but our battle was against deer hunters...and we lost. I can't do every state though, as much as I wish I could.

Lion kill in my region went from 22 females and perhaps that many males on a normal year to about 140 lions last year if I recall.

Anyway, do whatever you want for your state. It sounds like you are plenty happy with the participation of hunters in defending hound hunting. Great to hear.

My suspicion from past experiences that I've either been involved in, or watched from afar, is that the majority of hunters do not care about speaking up for hound hunting because they don't personally participate. If you think that assumption is BS, that's fine. I disagree.

Interestingly, this new Colorado proposal is even more dangerous than the initial. First it was "stop hunting cats," and now it has morphed to, "stop trophy hunting, and we will start with cats."

And thank God those geniuses included the lynx, because it is not like those already have federal protection...






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I apologized privately to IdahoNick for my inappropriate response to him. Nick does more than a big chunk of our hunting community to protect our traditions.

The negativity and dismissiveness from many hunters on this topic is disappointing. Especially those from other states who can muster nothing more than a "boy, Colorado is screwed! Good luck!," before clicking on the next thread. There seems to be a defeatist attitude from many. If enough of us aren't even willing to get in the blocks at the starting line, we are definitely losing the race.

I don't think the issue is decided. I don't think it's a lost cause. I think we can get through the 2024 election and retain a meaningful lion hunting season in Colorado. And if we fight like hell and still lose, I don't think our opponents are going to be satiated by this win. So I guess I'd like to hear a little less "you're screwed" and a little more "what can I do to help?"
 
So
I apologized privately to IdahoNick for my inappropriate response to him. Nick does more than a big chunk of our hunting community to protect our traditions.

The negativity and dismissiveness from many hunters on this topic is disappointing. Especially those from other states who can muster nothing more than a "boy, Colorado is screwed! Good luck!," before clicking on the next thread. There seems to be a defeatist attitude from many. If enough of us aren't even willing to get in the blocks at the starting line, we are definitely losing the race.

I don't think the issue is decided. I don't think it's a lost cause. I think we can get through the 2024 election and retain a meaningful lion hunting season in Colorado. And if we fight like hell and still lose, I don't think our opponents are going to be satiated by this win. So I guess I'd like to hear a little less "you're screwed" and a little more "what can I do to help?"

So if a person had a small donation to fight this where would be the best place donate? I was leaning towards Coloradans For Responsible Wildlife Management?
 
I apologized privately to IdahoNick for my inappropriate response to him. Nick does more than a big chunk of our hunting community to protect our traditions.

The negativity and dismissiveness from many hunters on this topic is disappointing. Especially those from other states who can muster nothing more than a "boy, Colorado is screwed! Good luck!," before clicking on the next thread. There seems to be a defeatist attitude from many. If enough of us aren't even willing to get in the blocks at the starting line, we are definitely losing the race.

I don't think the issue is decided. I don't think it's a lost cause. I think we can get through the 2024 election and retain a meaningful lion hunting season in Colorado. And if we fight like hell and still lose, I don't think our opponents are going to be satiated by this win. So I guess I'd like to hear a little less "you're screwed" and a little more "what can I do to help?"
I appreciated that. Thank you.

I know you do a huge amount of work for the cause of hunting and game conservation. I can see how it would be frustrating to read my post. My intention was not to criticize those doing great work, like yourself and those heavily involved in this, but instead to perhaps spark some interest in those who are on the sidelines. As you well know, this proposed law is such a blatant attack on hunting in general, that I'd hate to see the deer and elk guys have an attitude that it isn't pertinent to them. I am glad CO has guys like you trying to bring attention to this.

The substance of the proposal, as well as the means of attempting to get it into law are so scary. I am glad so many great organizations have joined together to fight this and it is far from over.
 
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