Colorado lead ammunition ban

[belly-deep]

I don't think it needs to go to recreational shooters, even in CA they haven't attempted that (yet). I would seem as it is those that are killing critters one way or another with lead that are causing the continued lead poisoning to condors. CA DFW has noted very high compliance rates among hunters, though I suspect that is pretty much limited to big game.

The shooting community has shown in the last 6 years a vast majority of them are willing exorbitant amounts of money for ammunition. We have no idea what the market response will be to a significant shift in demand due to regulation. I'll be good money though that with a policy shift driving an increase in demand Nosler, Hornady, Freedom Group, ATK or all of the above will step up and expand capacity.

There aren't many industries where prices increase with expanded manufacturing capacity...the learning curve/experience curve analysis has been proven true since first developed aeronautics industry in the 30's.

Maybe CA hasn't done it yet, but it is the logical end. If raptors are eating the gophers and prairie dogs, they're going to pick up rec shooters' lead.

And sure, the shooting community has shown they are willing to pay $$$ for ammo, but that doesn't mean a whole lot. Everyone I know has become pretty stingy with their 22LR. Kids can't go out and burn through a brick of it in a day anymore. You can't tell me that is helping them get out of the house and off the internet.

Frankly, I'm not worried about hunters. I hunt with Barnes and Nosler copper bullets. No big deal. But I NEED lead for my 22LR.

 

[belly-deep]

I keep telling my wife that not showering and just going Liver -eating Johnson is for the environment, but she keeps kicking me out to the doghouse until I do a little man-scaping.

Fine figure of a man, yes?!

 

[Ben Lamb]

Fine figure of a man, yes?!

Maybe old Bear Claw had it right.

I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads. I lodge-poled her at Deadwood Creek, and traded her for a Hawken gun. But don't get me wrong; I loves the womens, I surely do. But I swear, a woman's breast is the hardest rock that the Almighty ever made on this earth, and I can find no sign on it.

I really hope my wife doesn't see this.

 

[sbhooper]

Well, since we are all of a sudden concerned about killing the killers, we had better ban cars and trucks, because there are thousands killed on highways every year while eating road kill. This crap is getting way out of hand. Those birds are not endangered, so why is everybody trying to destroy the life in this country that so many fought and died for? Everything is being banned and scorned. Before long nothing will be left because of this society that thinks we can live in a great big nirvana.

DISGUSTING!

 

[TheJason]

Well, since we are all of a sudden concerned about killing the killers, we had better ban cars and trucks, because there are thousands killed on highways every year while eating road kill. This crap is getting way out of hand. Those birds are not endangered, so why is everybody trying to destroy the life in this country that so many fought and died for? Everything is being banned and scorned. Before long nothing will be left because of this society that thinks we can live in a great big nirvana.

DISGUSTING!

So it's disgusting to have an environmental conscience and to care enough to try and do things better?

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Well, since we are all of a sudden concerned about killing the killers, we had better ban cars and trucks, because there are thousands killed on highways every year while eating road kill. This crap is getting way out of hand. Those birds are not endangered, so why is everybody trying to destroy the life in this country that so many fought and died for? Everything is being banned and scorned. Before long nothing will be left because of this society that thinks we can live in a great big nirvana.

DISGUSTING!

Deer and elk are not endangered either. If someone was poisoning deer and elk would you want them to stop? I don't claim to know if a lead ban is helpful or not but simply dismissing the idea as not needed because they aren't endangered seems over the top. Not sure how a lead bullet ban will destroy the way of life in America. Can you elaborate? How has the 30 year ban on lead waterfowl ammo hurt your freedoms?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Well, since we are all of a sudden concerned about killing the killers, we had better ban cars and trucks, because there are thousands killed on highways every year while eating road kill. This crap is getting way out of hand. Those birds are not endangered, so why is everybody trying to destroy the life in this country that so many fought and died for? Everything is being banned and scorned. Before long nothing will be left because of this society that thinks we can live in a great big nirvana.

DISGUSTING!

This one goes to...

 

[Zach]

I had the oil changed in my truck in July. After my pronghorn hunt, I still have over 2,000 miles before I need to change it again.

So, my impact is being minimized.

Well said, JLS.

Zero exhaust? C'mon, you gotta go all in on this.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Zero exhaust? C'mon, you gotta go all in on this.

My two favorite sporting goods stores are only a few blocks away.

But I have to walk almost 3/4 of a mile to get where they sell tofu and birkenstocks.

 

[RUT JUNKEY]

I can't believe none of the waterfowl hunters haven't tossed their hat in to this . . .we haven't been able to use lead for quite some time. I'm not a big fan of banning the lead, if it saves a few eagles i'm good with that. . .but tons on turkey buzzards around here that a little lead wouldn't put a dent in their population. (I also agree with all of the .22 comments)

 

[bmack]

What confuses the hell out of me is why are condors in CA seeing the same benefits. That's the question I can't find an answer too. If you put a ban into place, and see a positive response in some species but no the key species you are seeking to protect, there must be something else out there or is it that the condors are ultra sensitive?

Condors are sensitive to life. Possibly the dumbest bird on earth. Tejon Ranch is loaded with them and the consensus is natural selection is trying hard to remove them however they are protected in so many ways we are keeping them alive.

Beyond the lead ban they have to take serious measures to mitigate any amount of risk that may cause the birds harm.

 

[jryoung]

Bmack, I know you have a contact at Tejon, do you know how the condors a are doing there? Are they faring better than the rest of the state since regulations are much tighter?

 

[Gr8bawana]

I can't resolve myself to ethically believe that we shouldn't care about poisoning other critters. Just seems rather selfish.

Hmm? How many amimals get hit by vehicles every year. Thousands I'm sure. So lets start banning vehicles.
Got bugs in the house? We can't spray poison for them cause something might die.
Can't use mouse traps anymore either.
My point is where does it all end?

 

[TheJason]

Hmm? How many amimals get hit by vehicles every year. Thousands I'm sure. So lets start banning vehicles.
Got bugs in the house? We can't spray poison for them cause something might die.
Can't use mouse traps anymore either.
My point is where does it all end?

Apples to oranges.

You can control your vehicle, and hopefully do so in a manner that you are not hitting animals on a regular basis.

How much control do you have over the gut pile left with lead fragments in it?

Do you spray pesticides selectively, or just leave them out where anything and everything can get to them.

I'm not saying we have to freak out on everything we do that could impact another critter's life, but it sure doesn't hurt to think for a moment and make changes where we can.

At one point in time it was okay to dump cleaners, petroleum products, etc down storm drains. Thankfully, we've moved past that and do things differently now. Can we keep finding ways to do things even better? I'm sure we can if we keep an open mind.

Having an environmentalist mindset does not have to be a bad thing.

 

[RobG]

Hmm? How many amimals get hit by vehicles every year. Thousands I'm sure. So lets start banning vehicles.
Got bugs in the house? We can't spray poison for them cause something might die.
Can't use mouse traps anymore either.
My point is where does it all end?

The arguments are pretty silly. We don't ban vehicles because it would devastate the whole economy that has become dependent on them. We would, however, take the lead out of the gas because it affects the learning abilities of our children. And in spite of all the predictions of doom, the negative impact of eliminating it was negligible. It is just a cost/benefit analysis.

If the lead is poisoning animals it is probably also going to find a way to get back to us, directly or indirectly. The cost of banning lead for hunting is pretty small. You really shouldn't be shooting lead into your food anyway. But it may be difficult to ban lead for hunting and not affect the ability to get reasonably priced bullets for practicing.

 

[Ben Lamb]

We took the lead out of paint, yet look where this country is in terms of a well educated public.

 

[noharleyyet]

We took the lead out of paint, yet look where this country is in terms of a well educated public.

...let's leave the teachers' unions out of this.

 

[sbhooper]

Deer and elk are not endangered either. If someone was poisoning deer and elk would you want them to stop? I don't claim to know if a lead ban is helpful or not but simply dismissing the idea as not needed because they aren't endangered seems over the top. Not sure how a lead bullet ban will destroy the way of life in America. Can you elaborate? How has the 30 year ban on lead waterfowl ammo hurt your freedoms?

For one thing, deer and elk poisoning is not happening-except when the lead poisoning is done by me- so it is irrelevant. Besides that, there is a difference between a food animal and one that is just out there looking pretty. Apples and oranges.

That is the same mentality that has gotten gun bans passed. Oh, this is OK to ban because we can get by without it. Then they go for the next step and the next. Where does it stop? Pretty soon all you ban-the-bullet guys are wondering why you have no right to do anything for fear of harming something.

Stuff dies due to human causes. The only way to change things is to take humans out of the equation and that isn't going to happen, because they breed like rats are ruining every inch of the country bit by bit. If one of you environmentally uber-conscious types wants to exchange all of my lead bullets for good mono-metals, then step up and do it or leave them alone.

 

[Ben Lamb]

For one thing, deer and elk poisoning is not happening-except when the lead poisoning is done by me- so it is irrelevant. Besides that, there is a difference between a food animal and one that is just out there looking pretty. Apples and oranges.

That is the same mentality that has gotten gun bans passed. Oh, this is OK to ban because we can get by without it. Then they go for the next step and the next. Where does it stop? Pretty soon all you ban-the-bullet guys are wondering why you have no right to do anything for fear of harming something.

Stuff dies due to human causes. The only way to change things is to take humans out of the equation and that isn't going to happen, because they breed like rats are ruining every inch of the country bit by bit. If one of you environmentally uber-conscious types wants to exchange all of my lead bullets for good mono-metals, then step up and do it or leave them alone.

There have been plenty of elk-die offs due to algae blooms, toxic fungus, etc. We spend thousands of man hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars looking for the cause and then trying to mitigate against it.

I'll send you a box of mono-metals. Just PM me the address and the caliber/grain weight.

 

[Ben Lamb]

...let's leave the teachers' unions out of this.

I want to talk about the Texas Board of Education, but the Ebola scares me away.