Colorado Elk Harvest falls short again......

[Deerslayer]

Todd......yes, they are expecting more of a winter kill this year. But remember...they are about 100,000 over the "optimum" carrying capacity, so even with a winter kill above normal.....there will still be too many elk according to their objectives.

My suggestion is to buy a few extra boxes of ammo.....clean the ol' 338 up real nice.and get primed for some "herd reduction" again this year

Washington hunter......this year you could get 3 elk tags and 3 deer tags all for the same season. I would look for similiar opportunities this year.

They went a step farther and let anyone who didn't fill their drought tags to continue to hunt in that particular unit after the last season had closed.....an "extended season" so to speak

yepper, where else can you go as a non res and kill 3 elk in one season for roughly $600!

...prive that out by the pound and you can't afford not to hunt!

Dan.......good point!....good thing we got out of there when we did...I was afraid we would be trampled that last day......thought we were gonna have to shoot our way out!

.at least it would have helped herd reduction.

.......I'm buying another set of chains for the front....adding a winch.....bought that big barrel stove with the water heater on the side......and just bought another horse..all with that hunt in mind!

.......taking no prisoners again his year@!

 

[tmsander]

Thanks, Oak...

Although it always seems that you get contradictory information depending on who you talk to about some of this stuff. A DOW officer we talked to in the fall said that the animals were heading down early because the drought conditions had little forage up high. Now they are saying the animals are headed back up because that's where the feed is.

 

[Deerslayer]

...they did come down about 6 weeks early in our area Todd. They were down on winter range in early October.....usually is late Nov/early Dec there before they come down. Made for a great hunt...but you gotta wonder about the long term effects....

 

[tmsander]

It was a strange year, for sure. I hunted a lower area that has a number of elk in it all year round. I expected to see more elk in there this year since the elk had supposedly moved down already. But I saw fewer elk than I normally do. The range looked in pretty good condition to me (although I'm not a range ecologist) and there was plenty of water, so I was surprised.

Most of the larger number of sightings I heard reported were on private ground.

Also of interest is that I saw no deer at all. This is an area I've been saving preference points for because in a normal year I would see 10 to 15 bucks over 28".

I also didn't see a single hunter in the field, although a fair number of them were buzzing around the roads on ATVs (I did report a couple of them that had their rifles slung over their back to the game warden and was pleased to hear they were ticketed).

Bottom line.... conditions were ripe for seeing tons of elk... but they just wern't there. Go figure.... gotta love elk hunting!

 

[Deerslayer]

....oddly enough.....the deer were non existent where we were as well.

Something to consider......there is winter range and then there is critical winter range....the two sometimes overlap but are also very different. I wonder which this year classified as on our hunt. I found elk in the "critical winter range"..where they are not listed as a regular wintering area.

The drought had some strange effects on the elk movement...but just because they moved down, I don't think they necessarily kept with normal wintering patterns. You gotta remember, the pressure is much different for them if they move down in October verses December.....

 

[tmsander]

I hunted transition habitat. I've been experimenting over the years with different seasons to see when the elk move through there. So far, I haven't got it nailed down. Its an area that contains sign from different seasons. There are wallows and rub trees. The aspen are barked. I find sheds. Its also kind of an island relative to hunting pressure. Areas around where I go get hunted a lot, although mostly be road hunters. But I rarely see anybody hunting were I go. Maybe there is a reason for that?

I'm starting to wonder if there is a small resident herd in there and that's it. I've always seen elk in there, whether hunting, camping, or scouting; just never very many. One thing for sure, however, is that I'd sure like to see the bull again that I saw a mile off a couple years ago. He was magnificent! All the other bulls I've seen in there have been raghorns, though.

 

[Boman]

Well I guess I just figured out what my problem was.. I didn't see any damn elk but about 300+ deer!!

DS, I just got my regs and how do you figure I can get 3 elk tags and 3 deer tags? are you talking about drought management tags that haven't been announced yet?? Just tell me what the hell I'm missing. I obviously don't get it. Thanks again.

 

[pa mt man]

How accurate do you think their herd numbers are? Me and my friends always get a chuckle out of the breakdown (bulls,cows,calves), when less than 50% of us get a call. Sometimes none of us. Where do they get their info? Hope there isn't something we are missing in the reporting process. Not complaining, we always have a great time. Don

 

[Deerslayer]

Don.....believe it or not, they can get a very accurate count when the elk come down to the wintering grounds. They pile up on mostly open private lands for the hardest part of the winter. No, their numbers are not exact.......but they have professionals that have been doing this for a living for a very long time, and they have a pretty good handle on the various herds as far as numbers and condition. Remember.....we go hunt one week out of the year......but these guys are monitoring the herds pretty much year round. I have confidence in the abilities of our DOW. Call me naive....but they do have my faith and trust, as well as my support. I am very greatful for all their hardwork.

Todd, sounds like a good little niche. You'll get the kinks worked out in time. Just to have a place to hunt elk without a lot of pressure is worth a lot.

Boman....I was speaking of last year with the 3 tags for deer and elk. They may do it again, but we will have to wait and see. You get your first tag like you always do......then, as the season progresses....the department will announce any plans for additional tags. There is no doubt there will be some.......just have to wait to see how many and for what units. It is always kind of a last minute deal.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-26-2003 14:42: Message edited by: Deerslayer ]</font>

 

[Oak]

I think Don was talking about their estimation of harvest by hunters. You're right Don, they don't call everyone. I was curious about this as well a few years ago and dug around on their web site. I couldn't find anything that said exactly how they do it, but I found a bit of information that said that they had called about 87% of the hunters that year. I don't know a lot about statistics, but I would imagine you could get a pretty good estimate on total harvest by surveying 87%. BTW, they called me last week.

Oak

 

[Boman]

DS,

Ok thanks for the explanation. Yeah I see where we can 2 for our units we talked about for now.. hopefully more to come.. Thanks again

 

[Deerslayer]

Terry, your right, I assumed when he said ......."How accurate do you think their herd numbers are? "......he was talking about the size of the herds.

As far as harvest and hunt surveys......I get called every year as well as my sons...for every species I hunt. I think they call more res hunters...maybe it's a cheaper phone bill

......because I never got called when I lived in LA.

 

[Shaky]

Hello All,

I don't want to get into any battle over who, when, where, why or how BUT I do have some input

Seems to me if the selling of additional tags doesn't/didn't accomplish CO's harvest goals then making the seasons longer may work better. I elk hunted last fall in CO for elk and the season was 5 days (the first season). Instead of having it set-up that way, why not have a 3 or 4 week season. I would of hunted 2 weeks if that were the case and maybe I would of harvested an elk, maybe not. At least I would of had a better chance at getting 1 or more. Seems to me if they want to reduce the numbers, have the hunters out longer. I know there are seperate seasons, but to me that sounds more like a Money Game in that one had to purchase an additional tag for that season.

I don't live in CO and don't pretend to know how it all works. Its so different where I live, it seems confusing to me even though it may not be.

Lets say I wanted to buy 1 cow elk tag as a non-resident of CO. Can I, without having to buy a bull tag. I must agree, to a degree with one of the other posters. I don't intend to pay the $480.00 some odd dollars for a bull tag and MAYBE see and/or kill a 4 point (2 on a side). I am not saying that the $480.00 some odd dollars is high. Based on what I saw last season, it seems a waste for me. I know, its called hunting for a reason.

Just curious from those that live in CO and understand the system - I don't.

I did get a call from the CDOW and listed my results to them - or lack thereof.

Thanks,

Don

 

[Oak]

Shaky,
I agree wholeheartedly that Colorado's system is confusing. It's only easy for me because it's all I've ever known. So, I'll try to explain it as best I can. If I don't do a good job, let me know and I'll try again.

The reason that CO has so many short seasons rather than one long season is because there's far more elk hunters here than anywhere else. They need to spread the hunters out over several seasons. I'm sure that when you hunted here you didn't exactly feel like you had the place to yourself, did you? Imagine three times as many hunters in the woods. All the elk would be on private property three days before the season started.

I don't really think it's a money game. I understand what you're saying about making guys buy another tag to hunt the next season, but that's not exactly how it works. First off, most cow tags must be bought long before the seasons open. You usually (not always) cannot buy a cow license the day before the season opens. Secondly, you can only buy one bull license. So this doesn't lend itself well to what you're saying. You can't just wait to see if you kill an elk, and if not, buy a license for the next season. Until last year, you COULDN'T hunt in more than one of the combined seasons.

I'm not sure, but I think you were asking if you could just buy a cow tag? The answer is yes, for $250. I also understand that the quality of elk, in regards to size, isn't as good as most other states, but CO can't simply charge less. They charge 'market value', which makes sense. I think many hunters want them to charge what they perceive to be 'fair market value'. The fact is, Colorado can charge what they do because you can come here and buy a tag over the counter after you've lost out in all the other draws in the West. The price of the tag shouldn't be based on the size of the antlers on the animal.

Hope I answered your questions and made a little sense!

Oak

 

[Deerslayer]

Oak...let me add that the size of the antlers can be as good as other states in some of the "managed units". CO grows big elk, you just generally have to bide your time, as with any state when in comes to the better quality units.

Shaky, I have to ask you......have you ever been on an out of state elk hunt for two whole weeks? It is a very tough proposition.
Some studs like Greenhorn or Weekend Warrior or Moosie

I could see doing it.....but if you wanna be real honest, that is a tough order for most guys. After about 4 or 5 days of hunting REAL hard, the energy starts to wain, as well as enthusiasm, and positive outlook. By day 6 or 7, a guy begins to figure if it was going to happen, 7 days is plenty.......if it ain't happened yet, what you have is a tired, wore out hunter who is starting to think more of a warm house and a warmer mamma at home than he is of changing his luck after 7 days of none.
I ain't saying there aren't guys that would stay two or even three weeks......I'm just saying the many hunters I have been around usually are ready to call it a hunt after 7 days in the rough. I do plan a 10-14 day bowhunt in New Mexico this year....but that is not the norm. It is a high dollar tag and you don't get the chance to hunt that state too often, so if I draw....me and my partner or in it for the 15 day season if necessary. But I know going in we will really have to be on our game to keep our concentration level up. A wilderness hunt is tough under any conditions........but when it goes more than a week, it can drain a guy in a hurry. I have spent two weeks afield in a stretch on a few occasions...and I think a guy would be better served to come out and regroup.....and out-of-staters can't hardly justify two trips. So the current season structure in CO keeps the maximum number of hunters in the field at one time. For almost 3 months fresh legs and minds hit the mountains with great expectations.....and with all the options on when and how you can hunt, it is a pretty darn good system.

Lengthening the seasons would lump hunters in the woods at the start......and they would quickly fade out after the first week.....I have seen this first hand in Wyoming. Colorado's system is one that manages the largest number of hunters in any state against the largest elk herd in any state.....the problem is not the system, but rather the shitty weather cycles we have had for the last couple of years. I personally am liking it, and will buy myself two or three tags again this year and blow up some elks. To sum up CO elk "problem" I can only say one thing.....CARPE' DIEM

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 02-26-2003 18:42: Message edited by: Deerslayer ]</font>

 

[tmsander]

Just thought I'd point out that a 4 point bull, which is the minimum legal size in most units, is not 2 per side, as Shaky seemed to indicate,... its 4 per side.

 

[Deerslayer]

Good point Todd!....I didn't even catch that.

Hey Shaky.....for what its worth, I really enjoyed your story about your Colorado Elk hunting adventure this year. It was a damn good story. Not many storys that don't end with dead critters were so interetsing, but that was a good read. You seem to really enjoy all the folks you met.......and het, I appreciate the kind words you had for my fellow Coloradans!

 

[Shaky]

Oak, Deerslayer and others,

I guess I messed that up. I didn't mean to be negative in any way, shape or form

I surely didn't mean to imply that CO has tiny elk or they don't have elk that can grow some nice racks.

It is so different from the regulations back here that its all somewhat confusing, to me. I understand how weather can really mess up any chances of killing an animal.

Would I have liked to of killed an elk last fall? Yes, thats why I went elk hunting. No sour grapes for not killing one though. I did enjoy myself, thats for sure. As to the way the seasons where set up, at least last year. If memory serves me correctly the first season started on Saturday and ended on a Wed. That alone seems weird to me. When asked if have ever hunter for 2 weeks out of state, in one stretch, yes I have. In fact I have hunted 3 weeks in one stretch before. Again, maybe I am different then most. Getting back to the season ending on Weds. Had I been allowed I would of hunted Thursday, Friday and Saturday of that same week to try to get an elk. If memory serves me correctly there wasn't an elk season at all those 3 days, was there?

Other then the weather messing up a hunt, which happens, if they extended the seasons they would have a better harvest. As far as there being to many hunters I would say there were to many hunters where I hunted based on the few elk that were in the area. Then again, a lot of hunters can be good to keep the elk moving.

I have to smile to myself a little bit since most hunters out west that never hunted here don't really know what a LOT of hunters look like. Pennsylvania legislature passed a new law last year stating that only one hunter allowed per tree (thats a joke, smile now). When I saw 30 or 40 hunters, possibly more, per day in CO it was a lot for the few numbers of elk in the area but it surely didn't look like home.

I admittedly am spoiled. We have 80 deer per sq mile where I deer hunt and I see at least 30 hunters a day while in my stand. I realize I am talking about watching over 100 acres here and not miles of ground like we hunted in CO, I think you get the picture. I don't mean to imply that killing an elk should be or is easy but the numbers seen and/or reported seen by other elk hunters I talked to indicated that they all headed south for the winter. I got it, maybe they went to Cal since most of the Cal people go to CO,

I had a great time and one day I will go back and try again but I don't think I will go for a bull, I would just get cow tags. I never have been a trophy hunter anyhow. Maybe I got to used to killing the doe, here back home.

Have a good one all,

Don

 

[Deerslayer]

Hey Don....you didn't mess anything up.....we all got opinion and yours is welcome. You made some good points, and an update for you...they have extended one of the first seasons for this year, either first seperate or combined, not sure without looking. You are one tough Hombre if you were out 3 weeks in one stretch! The longest I did was 24 days in Alaska on a float trip, but we had cabins along the way to refresh.

Anyway...good luck and good hunting!

 

[Shaky]

Deerslayer,

The 3 week stint was back in 1991 when I was a BIT younger and a LOT thinner.

I have some time yet before I have to make a decision if I am going back this fall or not. The buddy I went with last year has offered a return this year. Depending on my schedule I may go back this fall. I already have 2 other hunts booked so have to see how much $$$ in left in the pot.

I did learn a lot last time and would definately do some things different the next time. The next time I won't move as much. I moved when and where a local told me to. I realize he wanted me to kill elk and he tried to get me in places where he knows they travel. But, its all good, I had fun and enjoyed the hospitality of everyone plus I met a lot of really nice folks (hunters) from other parts of the country.

I would take my 300 win mag and set up watching over a mesa. I sit here for days on end and it doesn't bother me and I would use the same tactics in CO. Sooner or later I would see elk and if not, thats the way it goes. Using my 300 win mag I am good to 650 yards so it does give me some additional hunting area to cover.

In any case, thanks for the info. I enjoyed the discussion.

Have a good one,

Don