Colorado Buck Quality

[FREAK]

I actually thought that it looked like an old deer.

Must of been on the decline…I doubt there was any teeth left .

 

[Bambistew]

I actually thought that it looked like an old deer.

Its an old warrior. I heard he gored a few bucks before he was taken out of the gene pool. Those big forks are murderous.

 

[antlerradar]

I actually thought that it looked like an old deer.

I agree, looks like he should have been taken out of the gene pool about 4 years ago.

 

[FREAK]

When did it become mandatory to use phrases like “put in the work”; “paid off”; “old warrior” etc

These dingbats sound like a bunch of mfing colorado archery elk hunters

2 tanks of gas ain’t cheap, I’m sure he worked hard for that gas!

 

[FREAK]

That was my last sarcastic comment for a bit, back to Colorado deer hunting…

 

[bigsky2]

When did it become mandatory to use phrases like “put in the work”; “paid off”; “old warrior” etc

These dingbats sound like a bunch of mfing colorado archery elk hunters

“Old warrior” is now the default term to describe any mature buck that doesn’t have a big rack. Get with the times.

 

[TheTone]

Yep, forgot to quote @TheTone.

I’ve always kind of liked big forkies. I’ve let a few go over the years I truly regret. Some I thought were old and some young

 

[FREAK]

I'm not sure it's even debatable that moving the season closer to the rut and maintaining or increasing license numbers will increase the harvest rate of mature bucks. But you can't really look at the situation at the state level, as management (or mismanagement) decisions are made at the DAU level. I'll use @wllm's numbers as an example.

There is a lot more behind those 2015 and 2022 license numbers than just a "total quota." License numbers are based on post-season population and B ratio estimates, as well as the management plan. The unit used as an example above has had a new herd management plan written since 2015 (which resulted in a lower population objective), and CPW also changed the population model they were using. And post-season 2014 the B ratio was estimated at 27:100, while in 2021 it was 37:100 (objective 25-30 both years). And 110 of the 210 license increase occurred in 2022, likely in response to the B ratio.

As much as some of us don't like it (me included), the vast majority of CO is not managed for "trophy" deer hunting. It's managed for a population objective, a B ratio, and a CWD prevalence rate. Clearly the one that influences trophy quality the most is B ratio, and CPW has been making an effort to bring those ratios down where they are above objective (primarily b/c of CWD). The result is going to be fewer bucks and fewer mature bucks.

How does CPW collect that data? Is it winter range observations, hunter surveys, or a combination? To me this seems like it would take a lot of resources to continually monitor each GMU, but would also be very effective at maintaining target buck:doe ratios.

Are these ratios public information? I’d be curious to see the data on objective vs observations over time for a couple of the units I’m familiar with.

 

[Dsnow9]

How does CPW collect that data? Is it winter range observations, hunter surveys, or a combination? To me this seems like it would take a lot of resources to continually monitor each GMU, but would also be very effective at maintaining target buck:doe ratios.

Are these ratios public information? I’d be curious to see the data on objective vs observations over time for a couple of the units I’m familiar with.

Not sure how they collect data but it is posted in the same place as draw statistics every year. Here is last years, this years isn’t loaded yet.

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Hunting/BigGame/Statistics/Deer/2021DeerPopulationEstimates.pdf

 

[FREAK]

Post in thread 'Mule Deer Population trends'
https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/mule-deer-population-trends.313915/post-3416204

This was another post by @Oak that kind of clears up my question.

 

[Oak]

How does CPW collect that data? Is it winter range observations, hunter surveys, or a combination? To me this seems like it would take a lot of resources to continually monitor each GMU, but would also be very effective at maintaining target buck:doe ratios.

Are these ratios public information? I’d be curious to see the data on objective vs observations over time for a couple of the units I’m familiar with.

Data is collected primarily by winter aerial surveys. Often the percentage of the total population that is classified is quite small. The data you are asking about can be found in this spreadsheet for the most recent years. Lots of info, tough to read.

 

[WYelker]

Without a doubt the CPW is to blame for the horrible condition of many units. They are hammering the deer. The move to later season dates was horrible then to have many units see increased tags for the season is just a double whammy. It is criminal what they are doing in the NW Corner and according to the new comment periods, they are going to continue down the same path.

Let’s remind everyone why they went to the later season dates.

The CPW sent out a survey, it simply asked if hunters would like to see a longer break between seasons. It did not explain how this would be accomplished or what it would mean to season dates etc. It was simply one of the stupidest survey questions ever.

Who the hell would not want a longer break between seasons to allow for animals to rest and return to “normal”.

So the new season dates were put in based on this horrible survey.

Then in the NW they take out JT who would have likely stood against the BS they have pulled. After JT is gone they somehow decide we have too many deer. So let’s hammer the doe and let’s hammer the bucks. Let’s kill them all.

We will do it in the name of CWD. We will claim that our current herd numbers are too high and we are the most amazing mangers ever as changing the population objective means we have 5000 surplus deer to slaughter.

It is absolute crap… regardless of what they claim, they are doing the worst job managing the herds imaginable. Seriously when you pull up to the meat packers plant and they have 30 doe deep waiting to be skinned.

Then you drive through unit 3 from Baggs highway to craig, then county road 7 2xs and you see around 150 deer and one fork horn buck. It is simply destruction and absolute crap. For years I supported the CPW, but now they are on a different path and a very scary path at that…

 

[DFS]

Without a doubt the CPW is to blame for the horrible condition of many units. They are hammering the deer. The move to later season dates was horrible then to have many units see increased tags for the season is just a double whammy. It is criminal what they are doing in the NW Corner and according to the new comment periods, they are going to continue down the same path.

Let’s remind everyone why they went to the later season dates.

The CPW sent out a survey, it simply asked if hunters would like to see a longer break between seasons. It did not explain how this wild be accomplished or what it would mean to season date etc. It was simply one of the stupidest survey questions ever.

Who the hell would not want a longer break between seasons to allow for animals to rest and return to “normal”.

So the new season dates were put in on this horrible survey.

Then in the NW they take out JT who would have likely stood against the BS they have pulled. After JT is gone they somehow decide we have too many deer. So let’s hammer the doe and let’s hammer the bucks. Let’s kill them all.

We will do it in the name of CWD. We will claim that our current herd numbers are too high and we are the most amazing mangers ever as changing the population objective means we have 5000 surplus deer to slaughter.

It is absolute crap… regardless of what they claim, they are doing the worst job managing the herds imaginable. Seriously when you pull up to the meat packers plant and they have 30 doe deep waiting to be skinned.

Then you drive through unit 3 from Baggs highway to craig, then county road 7 2xs and you see around 150 deer and one fork horn buck. It is simply destruction and absolute crap. For years I supported the CPW, but now they are as much an enemy as the anti hunters.

I hunted Colorado this year and agree with your assessment. Don’t forget though Montana FWP is sitting up here saying hold my beer and watch this. Colorado hasn’t seen bad…yet. The war on muleys is real.

 

[WYelker]

I hunted Colorado this year and agree with your assessment. Don’t forget though Montana FWP is sitting up here saying hold my beer and watch this. Colorado hasn’t seen bad…yet. The war on muleys is real.

I hunted in MT the first time in 2015. I saw the writing on the wall for MT mule deer. In fact I called out the slaughter and the absolute lack of deer back then… I was hammered on the forums, people said I full of crap, that I did not kill a buck because I did not work hard enough, etc. But here we are almost a decade later and things have only gotten worse.

They will keep selling the tags as long as people keep buying them and hammering the 2 year old fork horns…