CO Parks and Wildlife (CPW) Commission Meeting June 1&2, 2022

[COEngineer]

There was a preliminary report on the hunting license survey (online) and focus groups (in-person statewide and online for non-res) regarding seasons, license allocation (res vs non-res and OTC), and preference points. Take-aways seem to be that residents want to get rid of OTC and allocate a higher percentage of licenses to residents (of course). Director Vilsack pointed out some of these options would require drastic increases in resident prices to compensate for the loss of non-res elk tag revenue. Several commissioners pointed out that there may be financial impacts to tourism (guides/outfitters/hotels/restaurants/etc). There didn't seem to be any solid ideas for fixing preference points (more than half of respondents said the current system was ok), but there is desire to give new hunters more opportunity and simplify the system. Personally, I know a lot of people don't understand the current system, so I really wonder about the validity of some (most?) of the opinions on preference points.

 

[vanish]

Thank you as always

 

[jlmatthew]

I got the feeling the CPW was treating our new non-hunting commissioners like mushrooms. Why CPW surveyed an equal number of 3000 Residents & 3000 Nonresidents is pretty bizarre to me. Almost as if they knew the surveys would justify keeping the status quo by letting so many nonresidents weigh in

Of course the CPW conducts meetings and workshops away from the major population area's and during the week to purposely keep Resident hunter numbers low at meetings. If they do have a special workshop in August, I hope it is explained to our un-informed commissioners how all the other western states allocate licenses and what a kick to the family jewels of Residents the current system really is

 

[Alabama]

I hate that NR opportunities are getting smaller everywhere and I'm 100% against outfitter set asides in all states. With that said, NR getting 35% of deer/elk in some hunts is ridiculous, if I was a resident I'd be pissed too.

 

[TOGIE]

With that said, NR getting 35% of deer/elk in s̶o̶m̶e̶ most hunts is ridiculous, if I was a resident I'd be pissed too.

we keep hearing about the outfitter's on their knees hands in the air begging for their handouts in montana and wyoming on this forum.

when they get to suck the teat of unlimited OTC plus 35% in most units here..... my oh my their little red faced tantrums will be heard the world round at any attempts of change.

in the words of steven rinella after his co muzzleloader elk hunt "man, colorado's got alotta problems"

 

[COEngineer]

I got the feeling the CPW was treating our new non-hunting commissioners like mushrooms. Why CPW surveyed an equal number of 3000 Residents & 3000 Nonresidents is pretty bizarre to me. Almost as if they knew the surveys would justify keeping the status quo by letting so many nonresidents weigh in

Of course the CPW conducts meetings and workshops away from the major population area's and during the week to purposely keep Resident hunter numbers low at meetings. If they do have a special workshop in August, I hope it is explained to our un-informed commissioners how all the other western states allocate licenses and what a kick to the family jewels of Residents the current system really is

The Res and Non-res responses were discussed as completely separate categories - none of the charts I saw mixed the two group's responses. All of the in-person focus groups were exclusively residents and there was only one non-res focus group (conducted online).

By your last statement, can I assume you will be attending congressional hearings to advocate for doubling or tripling resident license fees to make up for the loss of non-res revenue?

 

[jlmatthew]

The Res and Non-res responses were discussed as completely separate categories - none of the charts I saw mixed the two group's responses. All of the in-person focus groups were exclusively residents and there was only one non-res focus group (conducted online).

By your last statement, can I assume you will be attending congressional hearings to advocate for doubling or tripling resident license fees to make up for the loss of non-res revenue?

What does Colorado CPW have to do with Congressional hearings? Pelosi doesn't give a crap

I sure hope the same good folks that lobbied for the resident fee increase at the States General Assembly with nothing in return keep their mouths shut if the general public is allowed to speak

I would pay double or triple for 90/10.

I always have to ask, how do other states manage to do things with so much less money? Have you ever looked at other states annual reports? Looked at where money goes here? Major CPW projects are Dam repairs and fish hatchery renovations? Maybe they ought to increase the price of fishing licenses to cover those expenses vs hunting license revenue. When I had lunch with a former DOW Director he explained how the big game management cost the agency virtually nothing, just a revenue generator .

 

[WYelker]

HAHA. Guys in Colorado still think they have a chance to save the state... I love how everyone is all worried about Resident/NR etc. But the real issue is a lack of opportunity because the CPW is going to destroy the resource.

I can not fathom how everyone is worried about points, and allocations when the CPW is straight up destroying the deer herd in the NW. Over 2500 does tags last year over 2300 this year. Between that the increased bucks tags to kill mature bucks, the predators, the pending 200+ wolves they are going to import, it is only a matter of time before none of it going to matter...

Everyone in Colorado better wake up, outfitter, resident, etc. None of that will matter once they are done with the current management practices...

Last year the 2nd week of November we drove from Rifle to WY. IN the mid afternoon on a decent cool day. We counted and saw 32 deer total. Sickening that we are worried and fighting about % when the real fight is with the management practices and the pending lack of game...

 

[TOGIE]

HAHA. Guys in Colorado still think they have a chance to save the state... I love how everyone is all worried about Resident/NR etc. But the real issue is a lack of opportunity because the CPW is going to destroy the resource.

I can not fathom how everyone is worried about points, and allocations when the CPW is straight up destroying the deer herd in the NW. Over 2500 does tags last year over 2300 this year. Between that the increased bucks tags to kill mature bucks, the predators, the pending 200+ wolves they are going to import, it is only a matter of time before none of it going to matter...

Everyone in Colorado better wake up, outfitter, resident, etc. None of that will matter once they are done with the current management practices...

Last year the 2nd week of November we drove from Rifle to WY. IN the mid afternoon on a decent cool day. We counted and saw 32 deer total. Sickening that we are worried and fighting about % when the real fight is with the management practices and the pending lack of game...

i would argue colorado is only slightly bested by wyoming as being a model of proper mule deer management. still have the largest statewide mule deer herd in the west last i checked.

how many mule deer do you see in the midafternoon while hunting let alone on highway 13? lol

 

[Buffs35]

What does Colorado CPW have to do with Congressional hearings? Pelosi doesn't give a crap

I sure hope the same good folks that lobbied for the resident fee increase at the States General Assembly with nothing in return keep their mouths shut if the general public is allowed to speak

I would pay double or triple for 90/10.

I always have to ask, how do other states manage to do things with so much less money? Have you ever looked at other states annual reports? Looked at where money goes here? Major CPW projects are Dam repairs and fish hatchery renovations? Maybe they ought to increase the price of fishing licenses to cover those expenses vs hunting license revenue. When I had lunch with a former DOW Director he explained how the big game management cost the agency virtually nothing, just a revenue generator .

I'd even pay triple for 80/20.

 

[jlmatthew]

HAHA. Guys in Colorado still think they have a chance to save the state... I love how everyone is all worried about Resident/NR etc. But the real issue is a lack of opportunity because the CPW is going to destroy the resource.

I can not fathom how everyone is worried about points, and allocations when the CPW is straight up destroying the deer herd in the NW. Over 2500 does tags last year over 2300 this year. Between that the increased bucks tags to kill mature bucks, the predators, the pending 200+ wolves they are going to import, it is only a matter of time before none of it going to matter...

Everyone in Colorado better wake up, outfitter, resident, etc. None of that will matter once they are done with the current management practices...

Last year the 2nd week of November we drove from Rifle to WY. IN the mid afternoon on a decent cool day. We counted and saw 32 deer total. Sickening that we are worried and fighting about % when the real fight is with the management practices and the pending lack of game...

I will concede you make valid points. I too think it’s stupid with what CPW is doing to the deer herd. I use to hunt a friends place in Craig, but quit a few years ago because the deer herd numbers have plummeted so bad.
I also am of the opinion that nonresidents put way too much pressure on the herd. Residents will generally be out and about on the weekend, but nonresidents grind the whole season. Use to hunt GMU 35 until it became a nonresident hot spot. Sunday afternoon the GMU would empty out, but then it became overrun with nonresidents and mega camps and the place is just a shell of its former self as far as number of deer and quality goes

 

[COEngineer]

What does Colorado CPW have to do with Congressional hearings? Pelosi doesn't give a crap

I sure hope the same good folks that lobbied for the resident fee increase at the States General Assembly with nothing in return keep their mouths shut if the general public is allowed to speak

I would pay double or triple for 90/10.

I always have to ask, how do other states manage to do things with so much less money? Have you ever looked at other states annual reports? Looked at where money goes here? Major CPW projects are Dam repairs and fish hatchery renovations? Maybe they ought to increase the price of fishing licenses to cover those expenses vs hunting license revenue. When I had lunch with a former DOW Director he explained how the big game management cost the agency virtually nothing, just a revenue generator .

Sorry, I meant (and wrote) congress (lower case 'c'):
"a formal meeting or assembly of representatives for the discussion, arrangement, or promotion of some matter of common interest."

Yes, elk are a commodity. CPW wouldn't have much funding if they charged for butterfly hunting. Personally, I am proud to help pay for all wildlife and fear the results of more diverse contributions (general tax dollars). More general funds = dilution of the hunters' voice.

What part of CPW is over-funded? What are they spending money on that you would get rid of?

 

[jlmatthew]

Sorry, I meant (and wrote) congress (lower case 'c'):
"a formal meeting or assembly of representatives for the discussion, arrangement, or promotion of some matter of common interest."

Yes, elk are a commodity. CPW wouldn't have much funding if they charged for butterfly hunting. Personally, I am proud to help pay for all wildlife and fear the results of more diverse contributions (general tax dollars). More general funds = dilution of the hunters' voice.

What part of CPW is over-funded? What are they spending money on that you would get rid of?

I’m not trying to be a smart-ass, but look at our current commission, we have no voice at all. And clearly when residents are saying they want limits on nonresidents and CPW & Commission don’t oblige or ignore, further proves we have no voice.
This issue over allocation finally getting addressed took a bill introduced by Sen Woodward and Garcia to even get this process where it is now.

Fishing side is a huge drain. Make it pay its own way. And yes I fish

 

[COEngineer]

This issue over allocation finally getting addressed took a bill introduced by Sen Woodward and Garcia to even get this process where it is now.

I need a Venn diagram of the overlap of 1) people who complain about non-residents 2) people who are willing to pay 3x the current resident prices and 3) people who will freak out if resident prices go up by a penny.

From my point of view, if (when) licenses are totally limited, it makes very little difference to me if the other guy is from Florida or Denver. If he's from FL, I tell him thanks for paying for my wildlife management.

 

[jlmatthew]

From my point of view, if (when) licenses are totally limited, it makes very little difference to me if the other guy is from Florida or Denver. If he's from FL, I tell him thanks for paying for my wildlife management.

The way I see it, coming here as a NR is a bonus hunt in addition to hunting their home state. I just want to hunt my home state

 

[Buffs35]

I need a Venn diagram of the overlap of 1) people who complain about non-residents 2) people who are willing to pay 3x the current resident prices and 3) people who will freak out if resident prices go up by a penny.

From my point of view, if (when) licenses are totally limited, it makes very little difference to me if the other guy is from Florida or Denver. If he's from FL, I tell him thanks for paying for my wildlife management.

I have no problem with NR hunters. I hunt other states as often as I can. My problem is with P&W and how they run the show.

 

[COEngineer]

I have no problem with NR hunters. I hunt other states as often as I can. My problem is with P&W and how they run the show.

I'm honestly curious. What specifically do you not like about CPW? jlmatthew says to charge more for the fishing licenses (make it pay for itself - stocking, etc).

 

[Buffs35]

I'm honestly curious. What specifically do you not like about CPW? jlmatthew says to charge more for the fishing licenses (make it pay for itself - stocking, etc).

They prioritize their cash cow (selling nr otc tags in units that can't support the pressure, whoring out wildlife with rfw, etc) at the expense of the resource while completely ignoring Colorado residents. P&W should be a wing of the state tourism board, at least they would be honest.

 

[Bullshot]

I'd even pay triple for 80/20.

Why would you want to pay triple for a 23% increase in your available licences assuming a current 65/35 average on 1st choice is changed to 80/20? And all of that 35% is in units where residents have far better odd requiring far fewer points already. Many high demand licences already give less than 35 to NR, some give none. Ones that give a high percentage are the ones that residents don't seem to prioritize. Seems like many NR would need to lose at least twice as much opportunity for you to gain a little (and pay a lot more). What’s the real problem, you having trouble getting a tag each year now?

 

[Buffs35]

Why would you want to pay triple for a 23% increase in your available licences assuming a current 65/35 average on 1st choice is changed to 80/20?

Because I said so. Hope that works for you, doesn't work with my kids.