CO CPW Draw Process Working Group

[elkduds]

Based on the preliminary recommendations in the Draw Working Group memo posted on the Commission website, this is probably a moot discussion.

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2024/March/Item.27_March_2024_DWG_Memo.pdf

 

[Foldem]

I honestly miss point banking. Having 8 points and being able to hunt a 3 point unit for 2 years in a row was awesome. I think the only people that whined about it was people that didn't save up points ahead of time. If I took the time to bank the points, you could have too.....

Point banking causes point creep in low point units. Punishing the guys that hunt low point units every year including me and my kids.

 

[JohnCushman]

Point banking causes point creep in low point units. Punishing the guys that hunt low point units every year including me and my kids.

You can gather points just like me......

 

[Browning55]

So hypothetical...rules change. Units are 50 % points, 50% random. Unit X takes 7 points to draw. Resident Hunter 1 has 4 points. New rules kick in, he does not want to blow his points on any tag from a 2nd, 3rd, 4th leftover, or even a B list cow tag so he applies only as first choice and doesn't draw for several years. The tags he could have drawn as 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc don't go to him, they go to a nonresident cause he could care less about his Colorado point total, the NR still has points in 5 other elk states. In a few years, nonresident points get cleared out by a reasonable percent. For a resident Unit X goes up in point creep because every resident with points is doing the same damn thing(staying home) and the quota for points was cut in half. Meanwhile because Unit X is now hard set at 25% non residents, nonresidents can draw with fewer points then a resident? Then we limit everything, hundred of zero point hunt codes are created, and all sold to nonresidents?

What am I missing? Where am I wrong? All those points represent PEOPLE who should not be thrown under a bus for playing by the rules. We know Togie could care less, the only time it matters if it becomes a problem for him. Selfish, lack of compassion, the world we live in I guess.

New rules work great if everyone starts at zero. We aren't doing that. Who will be the winners, who will lose? Who cares about anyone but themselves??

Am I missing something here? I don’t believe the new rules imply a hard 75/25 cap. I believe they still operate on the premise of soft cap 75/25 only on first choice and looking at all first choices. Therefore cpw will conduct the entire first round of draw before moving to 2nd third etc.

If a hunt code has less than 75%resident demand then the quota can get filled by non residents in first choice.

Additionally on paper the bonus point random draw sounds good but is flawed if all choices in an application aren’t considered. How does this inspire people to burn points and not bc point holders…. I would dump all my points next year and never plan on accumulating but then I could essentially loose all chance of hunting in co. Ie I put unit 2 as first choice bc it’s random and then I put a unit like 71 or 70 or the new 81s etc as second choice…. Essentially I’m playing lottery with pick one but realistically plan to hunt a zero point archery tag. This would work great if all choices considered. But if they only look at choice one, you are gonna be playing odds like .15% or lower for a glory tag and also eliminating yourself from getting a tag second choice bc non residents will gobble them up first choice as the soft cap will only be in first choice. So the idea of giving low point holders an equitable chance is essentially a ruse bc they trade the opportunity to hunt as a result.

 

[Hnthrdr]

"Customers could still take their chance in the random Secondary Draw where no preference points are used, if they wanted an opportunity to hunt every year."

There ya go sir. Go hunt.

haha this will only work if i identify as a 13 year old…

 

[Mallardsx2]

haha this will only work if i identify as a 13 year old…

Their words, not mine.. Lol

 

[Hnthrdr]

Their words, not mine.. Lol

Haha oh I know, I appreciate what they are trying to do. And I think the days of having the cake and eating too are done. I am firmly in the camp that archery/ rifle should remain otc to residents, so you can get a tag every year in this god forsaken sh@t show of a state, but yes all A list tags should take points

 

[Foldem]

You can gather points just like me......

No thanks, I like to hunt every year

 

[seeth07]

but yes all A list tags should take points

it was extremely disappointing to see that the recommendation from the DWG was to not do this. The logic they state on why not is lame.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Minds are being blown. lol

 

[JohnCushman]

No thanks, I like to hunt every year

I hunt every year on leftover and reissue tags while collecting points. I'm not a whiner that can't figure out how to get those tags. I hunt every year until I get the tag I want with points. Don't whine about hunting every year if you can't play the game.

 

[TOGIE]

I hunt every year on leftover and reissue tags while collecting points. I'm not a whiner that can't figure out how to get those tags. I hunt every year until I get the tag I want with points. Don't whine about hunting every year if you can't play the game.

it's a great strategy. that is until the broad effect of point banking eventually could start to severely limit and potentially eliminate solid leftover and second choice tags that we love. the old point banking that was briefly tried didn't last long enough to see those effects.

with point banking, low point unit demand goes up. i believe that will have very undesirable and broad ripple effects.

 

[Foldem]

I hunt every year on leftover and reissue tags while collecting points. I'm not a whiner that can't figure out how to get those tags. I hunt every year until I get the tag I want with points. Don't whine about hunting every year if you can't play the game.

Yeah OK. I never hunt or kill anything...

 

[Foldem]

I hunt every year on leftover and reissue tags while collecting points. I'm not a whiner that can't figure out how to get those tags. I hunt every year until I get the tag I want with points. Don't whine about hunting every year if you can't play the game.

And I'm not whining, I'm just saying your idea is dumb and will increase point creep, which is what CPW says they want to "fix".

 

[JohnCushman]

And I'm not whining, I'm just saying your idea is dumb and will increase point creep, which is what CPW says they want to "fix".

"dumb" is not being able to play the game or having patience to gather points. What's stopping you from gathering points while you play the game and hunt every year? You're limiting yourself. I hunt every year because I learned how to play the game, and this year I'm using my points for a good tag. The only thing 'dumb' is whining about not hunting when the opportunity is there.

 

[TOGIE]

"dumb" is not being able to play the game or having patience to gather points. What's stopping you from gathering points while you play the game and hunt every year? You're limiting yourself. I hunt every year because I learned how to play the game, and this year I'm using my points for a good tag. The only thing 'dumb' is whining about not hunting when the opportunity is there.

pretty sure all of us here know how to play the game and do, in fact, hunt every year.

we're trying to make sure we can keep doing that.

point banking is the anti solution.

 

[Foldem]

Thank you Terry and John Legnard for showing point banking and averaging are dumb.

 

[JohnCushman]

My old landlord I had before I bought my house had 19 points saved, but was always a year behind the tag he wanted. He got access to a ranch in a 2 points tag unit, and blew them all to hunt it. That's bullshit to blow 19 points on a 2 point tag. If that's not a call for point banking, then I don't know what is. I could have gotten the tag I want this year that I could have gotten as a reissue, but I chose a different tag instead. The point is, I had that choice. If you're going to limit yourself to low point tags, and refuse to hunt without playing the reissue/return tag game, then you are a whiner. Don't bitch about point creep, because the tags are there for everyone who is willing to try, without using points. Hell, a tag I liked used to be able to get as a leftover until Eastman's put it as a good unit and is now grabbed like crazy and takes at least 3 points to get now. Do I bitch? Do I whine? No, I find other places to hunt each year until I can hunt that tag again. The point is...I'm hunting

 

[Foldem]

My old landlord I had before I bought my house had 19 points saved, but was always a year behind the tag he wanted. He got access to a ranch in a 2 points tag unit, and blew them all to hunt it. That's bullshit to blow 19 points on a 2 point tag. If that's not a call for point banking, then I don't know what is. I could have gotten the tag I want this year that I could have gotten as a reissue, but I chose a different tag instead. The point is, I had that choice. If you're going to limit yourself to low point tags, and refuse to hunt without playing the reissue/return tag game, then you are a whiner. Don't bitch about point creep, because the tags are there for everyone who is willing to try, without using points. Hell, a tag I liked used to be able to get as a leftover until Eastman's put it as a good unit and is now grabbed like crazy and takes at least 3 points to get now. Do I bitch? Do I whine? No, I find other places to hunt each year until I can hunt that tag again. The point is...I'm hunting

Just think... if your landlord was smart he could've hunted that 2 pt tag 5 times with the current rules.

 

[hunter49]

Your landlord choose to chase a unit.

Then he choose to burn his points on a private ranch hunt.

Everyone's has the ability to make their own choices on when/where/how they want to hunt.

It's all a gamble when to play the game.