Canned hunts...

[Michaelr]

When I was young and crazy I snuck into a private fish hatchery and caught a couple giant rainbows,

and showed them to my buddies and bragged about what a great fishermen I was.
Then I grew up

Now 20 some years later I wouldn't even consider or even think about doing it, I enjoy the challenge of wild rivers and native trout.
The same analogy would apply to fenced/canned hunts!

99% of the enjoyment I get from hunting is the challenge of finding and harvesting an animal that is wild and educated

I guess going with a bunch of guys and having a good time like you all did in texas would be a hoot, but I would consider it more of a party than a hunt

 

[Tom]

If there was lots of cover, I think it would be fun to hunt an elk on a smaller piece like 200 acres. It depends more on the cover and how the animal(s) have been treated, than it does the size. If they can run and hide, it makes it more like hunting out in the wilds.

I think those TV shows are like the $12,500 private elk hunts. Lots of animals and low hunting pressure means big ones walk out in front of you, if you're there. The people that own those places are rich enough and like animals enough, that they are willing to have a lot there and support them. It means they charge a lot, for the ones shot too, to recoop some costs and keep the pressure down.

280, I bet I could take you to a square mile ranch here, 640 acres, that has a lot of aoudads on it, and you couldn't get one for several days at least? Its real thick cover, its covered with rocks, and the aoudads are pressured enough and smart enough that they are pretty nocturnal, plus you'd have trouble with the heat. Its only up to 80 here now, but humid and could be 100 any day now.

 

[Lostagain]

OK== you guys are saying that if:
1)a big enough area (several thousand acres) with a few critters.
2)critters from a private herd wouldn't count in the books.
3)the operations would not be supported with sportsmen dollars.
4) and the people all know the fact that Bubba shot that private critter and couldn't pass it off as a public one.
Then such a game farm would be ok.
I know other folks are just opposed to private ownership entirely.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-09-2003 13:02: Message edited by: Lostagain ]</font>

 

[JoseCuervo]

Lost -- I don't think I said what you typed, as I have no idea what you typed???

I will call BS on the idea that a 200 acre fence is enough for a challenging Elk Hunt.

200 acres is only 1000 x 1000 yards. (And my Remington Rifle has 700 stamped on the side, assuring me that 700 yard shots are well within the range.)

Yes, I know Elk can hide in some small areas, but with a reasonable amount of time, I think anybody would be able to bump an Elk in that small of an area. I don't think that is fair chase.

You would almost be able to smell the ol' boy, if you hunted into the wind, even if you had thick timber. Or hunt downwind, and just let your stink push him into a mistake.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-09-2003 12:49: Message edited by: Elkgunner ]</font>

 

[dgibson]

Lost, I would also qualify things a little more by saying that the term "game farm" implies to me that the animals are fed & watered like cattle. I'm more talking about animals that act just like the wild ones, feeding off browse, drinking from natural sources, etc., etc. That's nothing but semantics but that's another one of my impressions of "game farm" versus "enclosure." I guess "game farm" is actually a subset of "enclosure," because by my inexperienced definition a game farm is necessarily in an enclosure, but not all enclosures have to be game farms.

 

[Lostagain]

OK=== only difference to me is
publicly owned vs. privately owned critters.
Publicly owned= the shooter needs a state permit to shooter, all regs set by the state F&G.
Privately owned= the shooter buys from the owner of the operation. No state tag needed.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Lost, I agree with your definition. That is simple, and all that is needed to differentiate between a game farm(canned hunt) and a real hunt.

 

[280]

don`t bet anything you don`t want to lose on your aoudads. There is no way a bull elk would last 1/2 day on 200 acres with a hunter who had even a little bit of a clue about elk hunting. See Tom elk are not whitetails they don`t hide like a deer. They will hide till pushed then when jumped right under your feet they head at a dead ass run for the next county. crossing 200 acres would just warm him up

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-09-2003 13:39: Message edited by: 280 ]</font>

 

[DKO]

we do have elk in fla. moosie and you too can come shoot and elusive fla. elk! you have to call in advance to see if they have one for you to come shoot or order you one ( from montana )and when it gets there you can go shoot it! and depending on how big it is will determine the price 275-300 is like 8,000 ,300-320-10,000 and 350-up you can negotiate with them! cool huh! funny shit when ya ask somebody where they shot that elk and they say fla!

oh and you should see the quality of these fine animals livin swamps and palmetto's skinny as hell ,ribs and hips showin with spindly damn horns its pretty sad to see!

 

[Moosie]

So by 280's explination of "There is no way a bull elk would last 1/2 day on 200 acres with a hunter who had even a little bit of a clue about elk hunting.",..... I think he means the elk would be safe if HE hunted there

 

[Tom]

I'm not going to pay for the aoudad hunt and I'm pretty sure 280 is not going to do it, so we'll likely never do the bet.

I don't know what an elk would do on 200 acres, I've never seen it. I was thinking of hunting with a bow, and that he could run like hell, as 280 predicts he will, and he'll be out of bow range. That would make it a hunt. Hopefully, elk are smart enough, that he would hide again before I got over there where he ran with my bow. I'm not advocating that people do that, I was just reacting to the question posed above.

If the 200 acres was open enough for a 700 yard shot, and you hunted with a gun, it wouldn't be much of a hunt. Also, isn't it reasonable to say that anyone who knew much about hunting elk could come upon and shoot an elk in any decent public elk hunting area given a reasonable amount of time? If so, that would make a more reasonable comparison of the two hunts. I don't really hunt anyplace where I don't think I have a reasonable chance in a reasonable amount of time, to fill a tag. I don't think anyone would hunt anyplace that they didn't believe that. Unless you were hunting the 1 in a 100 trophy someplace, then people hunt places with a smaller chance of success, that is possible on a private ranch hunt also.

Here's an interesting example about how the ranch hunting is different. The guy that wins "Hunter of the Year" in Records of Exotics writes a story about it. Its 10 animals and you've got to have the biggest total score for the 10 that year to get it. You can win it multiple years if you keep getting a bigger one of the 10 and enter a new total. They are called the "Super Exotic Slam", the 10 animals, and are Axis, Fallow, Sika, Blackbuck, Mouflon, Aoudad, Corsican, Ibex, Red Deer, and Catalina. A few years back the guy who won it paid for a big red stag and the owner saved it for him, till he killed it. It took him two years, but he got a big red stag. That's different, but he still had to work at it and hunted hard, and got some neat animals doing it.

Would you call BS on the thick cover 200 acres hunting the one elk, with a bow, also? It would certainly be different, but I'm not sure its BS, but an elk is big. There are record books where that elk can go right now I know, just not B&C or P&Y, but I know TGR, Trophy Game Records of the World would take it, if there was lots of cover and you didn't do a drive, but just outsmarted the elk and got him. I'm sure of it, I just looked in their 1999 record book and there's lots of public, Indian reservation, and private ranches listed. They list, if there is a guide, an outfitter, its public or private, who got it, with what kind of weapon. Its neat because if a guy got it on his own in a public place with a bow, then you know he did a pretty good hunt. If he got it with a modern arm, on a ranch, with a guide and an outfitter, you know it was pretty much set up for him. All of that is listed in the book, besides how big and how nice the animal scored. They don't accept animals from drives or places where the animals can't hide or get away, that's basically they're fair chase criterion, TGR.

 

[280]

moosie once again speaks up on something he knows nothing about, but for his benefit I have shot more bull elk then he is years old

 

[Moosie]

Add up the ones ya didn't poach !!! Numbers add up alot less eh ? HAHA !!

 

[danr55]

Well, Two Eight Zero.. and heavy on the zero.... I think we'd all agree that you are an expert at shooting something... but I'm not sure it's bull ....well maybe, but not bull elk...

 

[280]

danny boy, danny boy how many elk have you shot danny boy


moosie, your just not worth the time it takes to type,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Lostagain]

This sure digressed into who shot the most bull? I have to agree with dan, twoeightZERO does.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I thought this is Sportsman's Issues, where everybody loves everybody...

Tom,
Your "Super Exotic Slam" is kind of like what we have in Idaho. We call ours the "Super Sign Slam", where people hunt the planted versions of Highway Signs, and we keep track of who has the best signs. Most people do not attempt this with archery, usually centerfire weapons, including shotguns is the best.

The signs generally included are:
Stop - Always a favorite, and somewhat challenging, as there is often cross traffic, just behind the sign.
Yield -- poor man's version of the Stop sign
Exit -- adds a bit of adventure, if you get to mess around with federally funded interstate highway signs

Rest Area -- frequently taken while stopping to relieve one's self.

School Zone -- some debate around here on this one by the various scoring organizations, as some feel shooting in school zones is of questionable ethics.
Deer Xing -- the grand daddy of them all.

Just as high fence hunting is accepted in some areas of the country, by driving the roads of Idaho, you will see that this sport is commonly accepted, based on the amount of ventilation in highway signs.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-09-2003 16:15: Message edited by: Elkgunner ]</font>

 

[Tom]

I shot a mouse once in Idaho, do you have something for that Elkgunner, it looks like you're interestedn in mice from your posts?

It took 3 of us to track him down. We were all standing around where I shot him and couldn't see him. The blood trail was about a foot long and we found him following the trail. I figure my night hunting experience with hogs here helped me get him, the two Idaho guys couldn't.

He kept leaving droppings in camp and we were worried we wouldn't see one and end up eating it. I figured he was staying in the wood pile and coming out at night. So, I baited him with a little piece of cheese. Sure enough, he couldn't resist, came out early, and I nailed him with an open site 22 from the campfire. It took all three of us, but the tracking wasn't that bad. Its just the blast from that round knocked him into the air for a bit, so we had to look for him.

Elkgunner, have you ever even seen any of those Super Exotic Slam animals? They're not like signs at all.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-09-2003 17:17: Message edited by: Tom ]</font>

 

[The Hedgehog]

Moosie, my man! Here's you chance.. what a bargain! 1/4 the price of a hunt on a Ted Turner Ranch, and this is guarenteed!! And you only have to stay for 2 nights!! Good times with good friends, and some sure-fire art for the mantle!

I looked at the outfitter's web-page... they have 100 acres.. PLUS you get a guide! What a bonus! It says, "plenty of opportunity for fair chase hunting."

Tom here's your chance to kill an elk!

And I swear there's a picture of DanR on the description with a small elk. I know what happened. After years of not being able to draw an elk license in his home state of AZ, he decided to go to Maine and kill an elk.

My guess is Tom and 280 will have a bidding war!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3603160913

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-09-2003 23:38: Message edited by: Greenhorn ]</font>

 

[dgibson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>YOU ARE GUARANTEED A GOOD CLEAN SHOT AT YOUR TROPHY, OR IF YOU WISH YOU CAN BOW HUNT FROM ONE OF OUR TREE STANDS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm...so you can get a clean shot, OR you can bowhunt. No clean shooting for bowhunters, though.

Greenie, be fair; they have "over 100 acres of high-fence enclosed woods with plenty of opportunity for fair chase hunting." It's on the internet, so it must be true.