Canned hunts...

[Tom]

Texas has a legal definition of a canned hunt and they are illegal here. Its basically, you can't release a dangerous animal to be hunted, like a lion. There's an actual list of the animals where its an illegal canned hunt.

This is definitely different than a high fence hunt. Some people have different personal definitions of a canned hunt, it seems.

Even P&Y has some high fence animals in their record book from hunts prior to 2001 when they stopped judging high fence hunts on a ranch by ranch basis. Here's some comments from Chuck Adam's biography, Life at Full Draw, also

Even Chuck Adams said, "As far as my Pope and Young animals, everything's been free-ranging except the three Texas whitetails that the club accepted. Those deer were wild as hell, and club was right to accept them."

He has way more P&Y animals than any other human being alive or dead, he was the first to get the North American 27, i.e. the Super Slam. His word is better than mine, the high fence hunt can be good and those 3 whitetails are still accepted in P&Y.

Here's some personal comments on the next question posed above. One of the differences for me on outfitted versus high fence, is that there are a lot of neat animals to get here in Texas, that are way cheaper than outfitted hunts elsewhere. Another difference, is that on a high fence hunt, you get right to the hunting part and on an outfitted hunt you spend a lot of time, eating, camping, horseback riding, and hiking and less time actually at the meat of the hunting. That's some personal response there though.

I'm not an anti ranch hunter though. I'm not an anti public land hunter either. Its all great stuff by me.

I'd say Turner's ranch is not a canned hunt, but I don't know, I haven't been there. Apparently some hunts are easier than others, some are harder, no big news or big surprise there. That's common knowledge.

 

[Dick Reece]

Yeah,what Tom and Elkhorn

said,Moosie

 

[Moosie]

PC mech...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Moosie, some of us aren't as good as you or others at hunting ,I don't know what you've killed on game farms or public land,and personally it doesn't amount to a hill of beans to me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just for an FYI, I've never killed a deer or elk on a ranch. Matter of fact, I've never killed a deer or elk on Private ground that I know of, (My Montana buck might have been, but I'm not sure ?)

I've taken a hog and a few Exotics is all..

That being said, I still don't think that elk/deer ranches should get bashed for the wrong reasons.

And I know not all hunters are Trophy hunters... BUt even an "EXCLUSIVE" meat hunter like yourself would shoot an 8 pointer over a spike....

Remember, It's about the bone

 

[JoseCuervo]

Some of the most challenging hunts are the private property hunts, where you got to hurry and get the game off the private property....

 

[Dick Reece]

Just for an FYI, I've never killed a deer or elk on a ranch. Matter of fact, I've never killed a deer or elk on Private ground that I know of, (My Montana buck might have been, but I'm not sure ?)

Like I said, it makes no difference to me one way or the other.Whatever makes your boat float.I wasn't being accusatory or anything,from the looks of the photos you've posted you must be one hell of a trophy hunter.


That being said, I still don't think that elk/deer ranches should get bashed for the wrong reasons.

I'm sorry,I must've misread the post,I thought we were discussing each hunter's definition of a canned hunt ? I will say I've watched a lot of ranch whitetail hunts on TV,until I just got sick of them.It takes a pile of money to hunt those places consistently,and not a single one of them is a true reflection of the real hunting world.
Jackie Bushman couldn't hunt a fairy diddle on his own

.

And I know not all hunters are Trophy hunters... BUt even an "EXCLUSIVE" meat hunter like yourself would shoot an 8 pointer over a spike....

I don't believe I indicated I was "exclusively" a meat hunter,what I inferred was that I am an opportunist, I will take the first legal animal that comes along.There are lots of reasons for this,many of which are economical.Like I said, if I could shoot an 8 or a spike,I'd take the 8 if I could,but only because I've never killed a big antlered animal of any kind.All mine have been does or small bucks.
What I was trying to point out was a difference in attitudes,which I believe is also a large part of the reason why there are many who like to do canned hunts,and there are many who don't.Sure,there are some who simply don't do it because there's no way they could afford it.But that's not the only reason for me.There is no way I'd spend $12,500 to kill anything,even if I was a billionaire.I'd spend it on a rifle, maybe,but not just to kill one animal.Like I said,it's a matter of what your particular priorities are. I'll bet if I killed a few trophies,I'd start leaning the other way and kill the smaller,younger animals,because the meat is better.

Remember, It's about the bone

For you,it's about the bone and having a good time. For me,it's about hunting in the wild and having a good time.I can't really afford to be choosy year after year,but if I could,I doubt that I would. If I hated the taste of venison and didn't eat it,I'd quit hunting them.I used to love Duck,but I have eaten so many of them in the last 20 years just the thought of eating one makes me ill.So,I quit hunting them.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-08-2003 17:58: Message edited by: PC Mechanic ]</font>

 

[Moosie]

LOL ELKGUNNER... I'm sure everybody has a story or two like that

PC , I like the italics and the Calm posting you do

I don't get fired up by your comments although I try !! HAHA

NOW about the Canned hunt, My definition of a canned hunt is a "SURE THING". By definition it's like hunting inside a can. like fishing in a bucket. And speaking of fishing, I think it's Hillarious how there are thousands of ponds that people stalk fish, and it is WELL accepted all over teh world to plop a fishing pole in a "STOCKED", small pond and walk away with a limit of fish... I'm guessing the same people that bash ranch hunting wouldn't blink at a fisherman fishing in a pond. NOW, you might bash him if he's using LIVE bait..

My point is were do ya draw the line.. I know it can go either way, but I'll take it this way for this time.. Why not stop bear baiting , hell, thats a given isn't it ? What challenge is it to sit over a pile of Stink and let a bear walk to ya, At least the ranch hunting guys walk acros the road to shoot one ? Then lets stop food plots for deer, becasue thats just silly, and then let's stop hound hunting, cuas what challenge is that ? HAHA !! Anyone can Shoot a kitty out the tree, then lets stop..... Well, lets just stop

I know I was being silly above but here is how I see it. I think there isn't anythnig wrong with Fenced hunts as long as the Fencer's or the animal pay for their operation. YOU can worship the Elk and deer and say that it shouldn't be in a cage but I'll tell ya I don't think Cows should be inside a fence either. Or Chickens, thats just crazy what this world is coming to !!!!!! (We can keep the sheep fenced cuz they're just flat out hard to catch otherwise !!!) Hehe

 

[JoseCuervo]

Moosie,
Everybody has a private land story? Or a brothel story??

 

[Washington Hunter]

Well Moosie, some people get it and some just don't, and never will, and you're one of those. I have to say, your fish in a pond analogy, I personally wouldn't want to catch a fish that way either. I'd prefer wild fish that were there because the habitat was good, and so they chose to be there. But I'm not going to make a big deal out of a fish. A fish is not an elk. I actually do have a complaint with the fish and wildlife department in this state...they have stocked the lakes around here for years and years, with rainbow trout, and now the cutthroat trout that were native in these lakes are extinct. And I never hear anything about it, and they just keep putting those rainbow trout in the lakes, although the water quality has gotten so bad that the native trout couldn't survive on their own. They put the rainbows in there, and everybody goes fishing and catches a lot of fish and think everything's cool. But none of these people realize the native fish were wiped out. To most people, they just couldn't care less, I'm sure. But I would like to see them bring back those native cutthroats. Heck, maybe I'll go have a talk with somebody about it tomorrow and see why those fish aren't on the endangered species list. Thanks for giving me the inspiration Moose.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Oh, and Moosie, one more thing. Starting this topic on canned hunts was a good idea! Maybe sportsman's issues will pick up a little. Sure has been boring here lately.

 

[dgibson]

The theoretical justification for stocked ponds is that a fish can't crawl out of a "natural" body of water and hop over to a manmade one...if you want to fish anytime soon you have to stock them. Of course, there's a big difference between keeping a sustainable population and overstocking simply to catch more fish. So it turns out being another instance of Greenhorn's example of improving your chances versus creating a sure thing. Now, stocking in natural water where there are already fish is a whole other kettle of...um...fish.

 

[danr55]

Let's take this a step farther.. At what point does it stop being a canned hunt? How much acreage do you need before it's considered fair chase? The ranch I hunt on is 1.7 million acres...or at least it was. (I understand that some of it has been sold off for development.) Some is fenced some not.. Still, that's bigger than some states...

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-09-2003 02:04: Message edited by: danr55 ]</font>

 

[JoseCuervo]

Dan,

How about the requirement to have a hunting license and follow the hunting regs being required for a "fair chase" hunt.

And a canned hunt is one that does not require the license, and is actually just killing the animals owned by the ranch?

Just throwin' it out for a possible definition.

 

[Dick Reece]

Whoooweee! This is good stuff here, my kinda debating! I have learned some things on this one! Tom and Moosie have taught me that fences can't define a canned hunt unless we're talking small acreage,so I've altered my own definition a little.

Elkgunner has taught me that there are brothels on the private canned hunt ranches in Wyoming,so I've already started a canned hunt savings account

I just hope the women can stand this much good looking man at once

!!

The fish pond analogy is a good one.Jackie Bushman is still a sissy.

 

[Moosie]

PC, I won't argue that Jackie's a Douche bag, but someone has to be. I'll save my penis .. Errrrr.. Pennies (I meant) for that Wyoming hunt with ya

Hey WH, "some people get it and some just don't, and never will," ... HEHE AMEN bro.... /AMEN

"Sure has been boring here lately."

I never pop my head in here much, so I wouldn't know how buisy it was, Like 1-pointer said, "I'd argue with Moosie, but just can't. Competiting in the Special Olympics would be harder!!! "... HEHE

Dgibson, your reasoning behind the Fishing pond is good !! So if they want Elk in Florida (for example), on the same note as stated above, Why not stock a ranch there, right ?

 

[dgibson]

Well, sort of...1_pointer would say that's a no-go because elk weren't native to Florida. I'm talking about taking fish native to Kentucky and stocking them in a new lake where they haven't been established yet, or taking elk in Montana and developing a private herd in Montana. The deciding factor as I understand it is whether the herd is maintained for quality and not quantity and whether the ranch is large enough to prevent a guaranteed hunt. A 2-acre pond with 200 bass in it is a canned hunt; a 20-acre pond with 200 bass is a managed enclosure. That's the theory as I understand it, anyway.

 

[Moosie]

How about 1 elk on a 200 acre fenced piece of land as apposed to 1 elk per 20 acres. Would that be good Elk management

 

[Tom]

Here's a thought. Would putting a high fence around the edge of Kodiac Island that allows fish in and out, but not grizzlies, deer, etc. change the great hunting that it is?

Pretty hypothetical, but I say h*ll no.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Hey Tom... Good point.

What if you put a fence around the entire United States? Doh!

 

[280]

christ tom, are you still beating that dead horse? you need new material to justify your way of killing

 

[dgibson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>How about 1 elk on a 200 acre fenced piece of land as apposed to 1 elk per 20 acres. Would that be good Elk management<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You tell me, Moosie...you deal with elk a lot more than me. My initial thought would be "no," because elk traditionally cover a lot more ground than that. I might more agree to 5 elk in 1000 acres, which is the same ratio, but gives more room for all of them to run. Does that make sense? But I'm no elk expert.