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Canada shotgun ban

It was a quickly and poorly written "law" which came in the form of an Order in Council. This was not a legislation passed in Parliament, discussed and voted on. The Minority Liberal Government (lowest minority of all time) abused of special powers (Order in Council) given to them given the pandemic and the fact that we don't have a sitting Parliament. The OICs are intended to get sh*t done quickly for public safety as we are in a pandemic and Parliament is closed, it's meant to achieve things quickly for the greater good.

Canadian politics is a lot different then the USA's. The Liberal Gov't abused of these powers during a pandemic to push their agenda. In 2011, the Conservative Party ran a campaign with the "destruction" of the Long Gun Registry as one of their main points on agenda. They were elected as a majority Gov't, by a landslide, which was a clear message from voters. Fast forward to these last elections, the Liberal party ran for re-election (after a successful Majority Gov't) with unclear future gun legislation as a point on agenda. They barely made it and the lowest minority Gov't was placed in "power". What does this mean for Canada? The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, and his minority Liberal Gov't would have to sit in parliament and sit on egg-shells as most legislation they would pass could face a vote of no confidence and send us back into elections. For this reason, they avoided anything major WRT changing gun laws to avoid being challenged by other parties and potentially face a vote of no confidence.

Well, the pandemic gave them the special powers they needed to push their agenda, while dancing on the not yet buried graves of the victims of the largest mass murder in Canada. The OIC essentially rendered 1500 models of firearms prohibited overnight. It was a poorly written document which, I sh*t you not, included AR15 Airsoft variants, AR15 models which were in fact websites (for example the AR15 model AR15.com, was now banned). Also on this list, were weapons 20mm in caliber+, 10,000 joules at the muzzle+, surface to air missile platforms, surface to surface platforms, howitzers, mortars, rocket launchers, etc, all items that were mostly already prohibited under other legislation. This list was clearly quickly put together, in a matter of hours most likely and poorly vetted.

On 20mm, the intent was clearly to prohibit certain rifles only, but the new legislation is open to interpretation and unclear. The way it is worded, shotguns with removable chokes 12g+ were now prohibited. They clarified things and "assured us they weren't after our hunting guns" (more on that later). This is what happens when a bunch of politicians with no knowledge on the matter sit together and pull things out of their asses, with no extensive proof reading and information from actual experts, as it is the case for ALL legislation or document passed in Parliament.

As for hunting, the Liberal Gov't has always promised us they wouldn't touch hunting or bolt action rifles. Well, they lied again, the 10,000 joules limit now affected a myriad of bolt guns intended for hunting. Not only that, but the Prime Minister and his cabinet went out to say that the rifles on the list WERE NOT hunting rifles and that NO ONE needed any of those rifles for hunting, stating things like the .223 not being a hunting caliber (which is false, .223 is legal in some provinces for big game hunting). They made this statement, in writing and verbally, and immediately followed by saying this new legislation DID NOT apply to indigenous who used them for hunting. Wait, I thought you said these rifles weren't designed for hunting?

Finally (but there's a lot more), the Gov't promised a buy-back. But the OIC cannot do that, any expenditure must be passed and voted on in Parliament. This means that the buy-back option is not yet possible, if ever. Now, they're saying there will be the option to grandfather the weapons so that those, like me, who own them can keep them, locked up, until the day we die (at which point they will be destroyed). So the Gov't is telling us that these hundred thousand+ rifles are too dangerous for Canadians and that we have no business owning them, BUT, they create a legislation that allows us to keep them, achieving absolutely NOTHING for public safety...
 
The legal opinion does a great job of explaining the nuts and bolts of the issue.

I'm not weighing in on Canadian gun laws, I was simply pointing out that from the text it seems like legislators were trying to ban 20mm rifles and given their limited knowledge of firearms didn't think about how it would effect shotguns. Most hunters probably wouldn't realize that a 12 gauge shotgun would have a bore greater than 20mm... I doubt 99% of hunters could even tell you the diameter of a 12 gauge if we are being honest.

As I've stated in my last post, I believe you are correct. It was a poorly written order which did not go through the usual proof reading/vetting process. Legislations and Laws (or anything that goes through Parliament), has to be properly written with facts. Also, these laws go through a second set of verification before being passed/receiving royal assent as they must be translated in both official languages English and French, meaning they need to pass the sniff test in both languages.
 
The legal opinion does a great job of explaining the nuts and bolts of the issue.

I'm not weighing in on Canadian gun laws, I was simply pointing out that from the text it seems like legislators were trying to ban 20mm rifles and given their limited knowledge of firearms didn't think about how it would effect shotguns. Most hunters probably wouldn't realize that a 12 gauge shotgun would have a bore greater than 20mm... I doubt 99% of hunters could even tell you the diameter of a 12 gauge if we are being honest.

The 10,000 joule limit is stupid also. Say goodbye to most Nitro Express, safari grade weatherby magnums, etc cartridges. Their intent was to eliminate 50 BMG's, but in their infinite wisdom, they chose a lower joule rating than the BMG is loaded too (which I think is around 14,000 joules).

Sausage was made. It's crap sausage.
 
I do not disagree with your premise, but knowing those involved I do believe they knew and decided to see how it would play out, knowing they would have to change it---while, saying/thinking--lets see what they complain about and then only change what we need to change at this time so as to get as much in as possible. I am not a conspiracy nut, but I have experience dealing with these people, or at least some of them. Brent will or might say I am painting with a broad brush and he would be right. We do become "jaded" after being told white is black so many times. The "creep" technique has worked for them in the past. Also, I do have a dog in this fight as I was researching a "dreiling" type firearm and the rifle part of it might not now be possible. BUT that is a very very small part of my concern and complaint. I have ranted enough, I will log off and go hunt something;)

No, they're not smart enough. They've always promised they wouldn't touch hunting rifles, bolt guns, etc. The caliber and joules restriction does that, it affects a multitude of hunting firearms. They needed to pass this order as quickly as possible in the hopes that it would go unnoticed given the pandemic, so it was probably written with crayons on a napkin and a quick list of firearms models with basic limitations on caliber and energy produced at the muzzle was thrown together. Well, they were wrong, even hardcore Liberals are pissed. Also, the fact that they abused their special powers is a serious concern for a lot of Canadian citizens.
 
@Panda Bear and @Ben Lamb

100% agree.
I'm up to my ears trying to figure out how to "be legal" in a state with very ill conceived laws. I was trying to keep my comment to the specifics of the law rather than the politics of the law.

@Panda Bear if you really want to talk wingnut laws... apparently Massachusetts classifies spent shotgun hulls or rifle cartridges as "firearms" and if you get a firearm license "a LTC" your license plate is flagged. Therefore if you go to the range, clean up your hulls toss them in a trash bag on the back seat, then your spouse (who doesn't have a LTC) takes your car to the grocery store, gets pulled over for rolling through a stop sign, they can then be charged with unlawful possession of a firearm if that bag of trash is still in the car. - Fun fact/ anecdote learned in my mandatory firearms course taught by a state trooper.
 
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Today's Update.....

The province of Ontario police are trying to get clarifications from the Federal Government on the new regulation. There was no exception in the regulation for law enforcement, so basically any police carying a shotgun or AR in their vehicles (Yes our police carry these firearms for their jobs) is now in contravention to the new regulation. They even made the cops criminals......

I really feel for our military here in Canada. Most who serve are real true blooded Canadians who hunt and fish, and are impacted personally by these same laws. A good friend of mine is a decorated retiree from the Canadian Military, and competes in IPSC on a global stage. It must to hard to serve the country right now....
 
@Panda Bear and @Ben Lamb

100% agree.
I'm up to my ears trying to figure out how to "be legal" in a state with very ill conceived laws. I was trying to keep my comment to the specifics of the law rather than the politics of the law.

@Panda Bear if you really want to talk wingnut laws... apparently Massachusetts classifies spent shotgun hulls or rifle cartridges as "firearms" and if you get a firearm license "a LTC" your license plat is flagged. Therefore if you go to the range, clean up your hulls toss them in a trash bag on the back seat, then your spouse (who doesn't have a LTC) takes your car to the grocery store, gets pulled over for rolling through a stop sign, can then be charged with unlawful possession of a firearm. - Fun fact/ anecdote learned in my mandatory firearms course taught by a state trooper.

That's insane.
 
So glad I live in Wyoming...
As these migrations of people occur from areas that had overly strict firearms regulations/bans that then bring that ideology to other places, the fight might be on your doorstep sooner than you think. I've seen quite a few discussions that with this epidemic we may see even more migration from urban areas to suburban and rural areas. A paradigm shift in working remotely can further facilitate this.
 
As these migrations of people occur from areas that had overly strict firearms regulations/bans that then bring that ideology to other places, the fight might be on your doorstep sooner than you think. I've seen quite a few discussions that with this epidemic we may see even more migration from urban areas to suburban and rural areas. A paradigm shift in working remotely can further facilitate this.
Maybe, but I'm not losing any sleep over it
 
I'm definitely not a defender to government and their overreach.... But these laws are written by people who know nothing about guns. While I agree they want to restrict lawful gun ownership as much as possible, I wouldn't be surprised that they didn't know they were restricting common hunting shotguns. Same story when Oregon was trying to outlaw purchasing more than 20 rounds per month, instantly making buying a box of shotgun shells impossible. I think they figured a box of ammo is 20 rounds so make it a box a month.

I don't disagree these people aren't sneaky but I also think they are clueless when it comes to hunting and shooting.
I’ve done enough work in government policy to know that very little gets through the process without significant review by lobbyists and industry interests of all different persuasions. Especially something as controversial as gun laws. To believe that perhaps the people pushing this “didn’t know” would be naive. If they didn’t know, it’s because they intentionally decided not to know. I’m sure lobbyists picked apart every word of this, and those on the side of gun rights would have been looking for any and every way to attack it. This “oversight” is one that would have been obvious to activist groups.

we can all have opinions about lobbyists, it most of them do actually read the documents. Which is more than can be said for many of our politicians. They rely on the lobbyists to tell them what’s in it.
 

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