Bulls for Billionaires - MT EQC Meeting today 1:30 PM

Entitlement like if you own land with elk on it you are entitled to a bull tag every year? I support the 15% to landowners they certainly do deserve to have better odds at them. Entitled to have a full schedule of outfitted clients every year? I would like to just see better management and I suspect you do as well.
 
Big Shooter said:
So…..reading all of this over the course of Lord knows how many days, and not chiming in (which is odd), I have some input. Some of you, including Buzz and Gerald….and especially DakotaKid……have some great ideas. But….here is my input…The MAIN reason that the DIY hunter runs into locked access is due to poor hunter behavior over the last x amount of years. The #1 reason that landowners lease to outfitters is…poor hunt behavior. Maybe it’s time to take a look at our punitive system and start to increase fines along with taking away hunting privileges to actually hold your DIY hunting community accountable and then MAYBE some access would open up. I would never throw any of you into this group….but there is plenty of the BS that goes on and the landowners are tired of it. It is the whole entitlement thought that ruins it for everyone. I feel that the increased fines should be first and foremost on the way to “coming together”. If I was a landowner that was partaking in 454 and read this thread…..I’d be out in a heartbeat!! Taking personal shots at the Director as well as the guy with cancer that had a chance to kill a big bull truly showed your colors! But…..I’m not shocked!
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Nobody took shots at the kids with cancer, but to hold that over people's heads like the director did says more about the thinking process of those involved than the rest of the people. I think that's a simple question that deserves an answer: Why do billionaires need to get free permits to let sick kids & our war wounded hunt?

Sad to hear that Hank's cancer is back. Nobody deserves that, especially a survivor.

Regarding fines for hunting violations, absolutely that needs to be addressed, and hunter behavior is something the hunters need to step up on bigly. Based on some of the jurists I've talked with, the Lacey act does more to deter repeat offenders than anything else and regardless of what the law says, but the jurists need to step up and enact the larger fines. Current statute lays the range of the fine, but it's up to the Judge to make the sentence. There are some concepts other that folks are looking at regarding how to increase efficacy of hunter ed, increase accountability on the hunter's end, etc. Bringing back hunter ed in person days, and offering some kind of continuing ed would help. As would requiring that continuing Ed for a special hunt epxerience like has been talked about before (Kelly Flynn had this concept, but it got screwed with transferable tags).
 
I mean let’s look at the chain of events that happened. I heard rumors the director was going to make any over objective unit general before the season setting. The director came out with simplification. Biologist where I hunt had sound science why that couldn’t happen and we were told not to worry about it. Hank came to meetings and assured us that wasn’t going to happen. Then a week before the commission met Hank dropped a nuke let’s make everything on private general without talking to anyone in the commission, they found out when we did. The biologist had a great plan based on science, after all this was going to be science based. People lost their mind not wanting to see the last glimmer of hope in Montana to be destroyed. The commission cleaned up Hanks mess all while he told them nothing you guys decide will have any biological impact and we can give out as many tags as we want. That’s not good faith, I wish the best for Hank this just might not be the job for him. Can we please get some adults in the room to stand up for wildlife management.
 
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Ben Lamb said:
Nobody took shots at the kids with cancer, but to hold that over people's heads like the director did says more about the thinking process of those involved than the rest of the people. I think that's a simple question that deserves an answer: Why do billionaires need to get free permits to let sick kids & our war wounded hunt?

Sad to hear that Hank's cancer is back. Nobody deserves that, especially a survivor.

Regarding fines for hunting violations, absolutely that needs to be addressed, and hunter behavior is something the hunters need to step up on bigly. Based on some of the jurists I've talked with, the Lacey act does more to deter repeat offenders than anything else and regardless of what the law says, but the jurists need to step up and enact the larger fines. Current statute lays the range of the fine, but it's up to the Judge to make the sentence. There are some concepts other that folks are looking at regarding how to increase efficacy of hunter ed, increase accountability on the hunter's end, etc. Bringing back hunter ed in person days, and offering some kind of continuing ed would help. As would requiring that continuing Ed for a special hunt epxerience like has been talked about before (Kelly Flynn had this concept, but it got screwed with transferable tags).
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WTF are you talking about? YOU are the one that keeps bringing up the fact that a guy with cancer got to go shoot a bull through the 454!
 
Greenhorn said:
I can’t see that anybody pulling out the the magical 454 program would have jack shit of a difference to anything in the grande scheme of things. Shots at the director were well deserved in my opinion. Can’t say that I’ve ever seen a leader so hell bent on screwing things up for public land elk and sportsman. I musta missed the shots at guy with cancer. Where was that?
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No…..they were not well deserved! Maybe in your opinion they were. Typical though…..when things go in a way you don’t like you start taking personal shots! I thought you were better than that.
 
Just to be clear, Director Worsech has cancer? That sucks. I am sorry to hear that.

An individual’s health and his management policies are two different things.

I wish him nothing but the best for his health.

Whether he’s healthy or sick has no bearing on how good or bad the policies are he’s been attempting to have FWP implement. Bad policy needs to be opposed because it is bad policy and I have opposed most of what Director Worsech has proposed because of how it will affect our wildlife resources and the majority of Montana resident hunters.
 
Big Shooter said:
WTF are you talking about? YOU are the one that keeps bringing up the fact that a guy with cancer got to go shoot a bull through the 454!
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On Feb. 4th, the director said that the opportunity for that person wouldn't have existed if the Wilk's didn't get their trophy permits. It's been a central talking point of both the lawyer & the director. Was he wrong? Because I know of a number of people who were contacted by one of the agents of the landowners who was looking specifically for kids with illness or wounded vets to make a point.
 
Big Shooter said:
No…..they were not well deserved! Maybe in your opinion they were. Typical though…..when things go in a way you don’t like you start taking personal shots! I thought you were better than that.
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When the Director tries to change policy for the benefit of a few at the expense of many and stubbornly refuses to change his proposals when pushback is immediate, he deserves to be criticized.
 
Big Shooter said:
No…..they were not well deserved! Maybe in your opinion they were. Typical though…..when things go in a way you don’t like you start taking personal shots! I thought you were better than that.
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We can agree to disagree. The guy is completely disingenuous in what he claims to be doing & you know this. His home should be egged.
 
Greenhorn said:
We can agree to disagree. The guy is completely disingenuous in what he claims to be doing & you know this. His home should be egged.
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When I started hunting in Montana in 1979...his house wouldn't have been egged, but, rather, his ass thoroughly kicked in the parking lot of a public meeting.

We've become way too civilized...and soft.

Can't even hardly make a public comment to help wildlife without somebody throwing a shit fit and being offended.

But, the Department, landowners, outfitters, and legislature can say and do anything they want and we have to be respectful and stand there taking it all like a mule deer buck in mid-November.
 
BuzzH said:
When I started hunting in Montana in 1979...his house wouldn't have been egged, but, rather, his ass thoroughly kicked in the parking lot of a public meeting.

We've become way too civilized...and soft.

Can't even hardly make a public comment to help wildlife without somebody throwing a shit fit and being offended.

But, the Department, landowners, outfitters, and legislature can say and do anything they want and we have to be respectful and stand there taking it all like a mule deer buck in mid-November.
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By whom? I’m going out on a limb here….but guessing not you. Just saying.
 
Gerald Martin said:
When the Director tries to change policy for the benefit of a few at the expense of many and stubbornly refuses to change his proposals when pushback is immediate, he deserves to be criticized.
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Very sure in the fact that the personal shots were uncalled for. Not saying that you can’t disagree with what he’s saying or doing…..but some of those were above and beyond what he had coming. Grow up.
 
Greenhorn said:
One more question, you're all over the bad DIY resident hunters and why landowners lease to outfitters.. What's the parallel of that to landowners getting trophy bull elk permits at all cost? This thread is about the hell bent need of that single goal, from the get go, from Hank Worsech and those he's snuggling up with.
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Please tell me where I singled out “bad DIY RESIDENTS”.
 
Big Shooter said:
Very sure in the fact that the personal shots were uncalled for. Not saying that you can’t disagree with what he’s saying or doing…..but some of those were above and beyond what he had coming. Grow up.
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Please quote my personal shots at Director Worsech that are above and beyond what he had coming that are indications I need to “grow up”.
 
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