Bullet Failure? (Open at your own risk, graphic)

[Ridge Runner]

I would have to say the bullet did its job but made the mess by having to much retained energy for such a close shot. Probably a bullet designed for long range work and rapid expansion at longer ranges. Up close work it's just a flying grenade. I had the same problem on a little blacktail last year.Higher velocities and close range work is not what some of these bullets are built for.

Bullet separated from the core.

Curious to see what bullet you were using. Nice critter you got there though

 

[snake river rufus]

The bullet didn't "fail" but maybe didn't perform as expected? Nosler ballistic tip?

 

[danr55]

You can't say the bullet failed. It did exactly what it was supposed to do. Although it performed to the extreme. Perhaps one of the new Hornady Polycarb tipped wonders, or some type of hollow pointed projectile (Moosie's favorite!)

OR>>>>>>> Is that one of the new fangled Triple shock or Triple something bullets? From the size of that hole, it looks like a perfect cone was blown out of the deer. Was he standing against something, like a rock or a tree?

 

[antlerrick]

I was using an accubond bullet on my deer and from 320 yds it left an exit hole the size of a golf ball...Hit it in about the same area as Bambistew's shot......I'm really curious as to what kind of bullet you were using!!
Sometimes from longer shots like that, you can find the bullet against the skin on the opposite side of the entry hole....Not this time!!!

 

[Bambistew]

I think its interesting how no one can give a clear answer of if the bullet "failed" or not. We all have our own expectations of what a bullet is supposed to do I guess.

Personally I think it worked just like it was supposed to. The buck is dead and dropped on the spot or within about three steps. I was just a little surprised by the bullet exploding upon contact with a rib. It's supposed to be one of the new "wonder" bullets. I can get that kind of performance out of a Ballistic tip or "gasp" a Sierra... The internal damage was fair. The front side lung had a single hole in it approximately twice the diameter of the bullet, the top of the heart and all the blood vessels were completely shredded, and the back side lung had a fair size hole in it. My guess is the bullet had a pretty big frontal diameter once it came in contact with the rib and all the flattened lead and copper just blew off when it hit, resulting in a big hole. The back shank about 3/8-1/2" long was found just under the skin on the off side with a perfect mushroom twice the diameter, along with a bunch of copper and lead shards. Personally I think the more damage that you can do to the internal organs the more likely you will be to recover the animal quickly.

There's nothing like gutting an animal and having to just "pour" out the boiler room... I really don't like having the entrance and a small just over caliber size exit wound. Most of the times the animals have very little internal damage and can sometimes run for quite a ways. Which can mean the diffrence of an easy pack or packing out of a hell hole...

One of the guys that was elk hunting with me last week, shot a very big cow at about 200 yards with a 340 Roy and a Nosler partition. She ran probably 300 yards before she stopped and stood there for about 20 seconds and then just fell over... A classic double lung shot. If that would have been in a diffrent spot... we could have been in big trouble, but luckily she ran closer to the road...

I can't say that I have EVER had an elk run more than about 20-30 yards after being shot in the ribs. Most all have dropped with in a step or two. THAT to me is what a bullet is supposed to do. Put them down fast not prolong their experience just so you get an exit hole... for what? A blood trail??? Why the hell would you need a blood trail, when you can dump em on the spot with a good shot? Personally I think "premium" bullets are over rated AND over priced.

It was a 140 grn. Nosler Accubond. I took some pictures last night and will try to get them dumped tomorrow. The recovered bullet weighed more than I though it would, 99 grains for about 71% weight retention. Which is more or pretty much on line or more than all the partitions I've ever seen in action, and they are "supposed" to be the cats meow right? Most all the Sierras that I've recovered weighed that much or close to it...

There was very little blood shot and the only meat wasted was right around the hole. I'm planning on just sticking with them for now. They shoot really well. Also I shot a cow with the 160 acb's at a little over 300 yards. It blew her spine to mush and exited... also very little blood shot and wasted meat. She was dead before she hit the ground, not the most perfect shot, but she's in my freezer.

Come on Ithica... give me a little credit... The entrance side was right were it was supposed to be, the deer was slighly quartering away from me. I grew up in a family with those same “values” less meat wasted is a good thing. I may have lost about a pound of meat off this buck maybe… I was pretty impressed that the whole back side of the shoulder wasn’t wasted.

That brings up another good point. If you are only shooting for ribs why do you need a super duper premium bullet? Your average cup and core would do the same thing every time.

Of probably close to 75+ head of game I've shot. This deer and the cow that I shot are the only two that I've ever shot with "Premium" bullets. The only animal that I've lost was a bull that was just a bad shot... no wonder bullet would have killed him either. Last I checked knee caps aren’t part of the vitals.

On thing that I will say about non premium bullets is that they sometimes do cause extensive blood shot. This is one of the reasons for my switching. I like to eat the meat, not throw it away… But I can't compare it to Premium bullets as I've only shot two animals with them so far... Give me about 5-6 years and I'll let you know what the consensus is...

One last thought… The first elk I shot with a bow, had some of the most extensive blood shot I’ve every seen… One whole shoulder was almost completely ruined... it also had blood shot all the way up and around his rib cage. I’ve also killed deer with a bow that blood shot badly as well… Maybe I should switch to a “premium” broadhead too.

 

[Bambistew]

And just for Ithica... You can see the entrance hole.

Right behind the scope between the bell and the adjustment knobs. Back end of the "slats" where my granddad always said to shoot em!

I really think it would be tough to say what kind of penatration I could have gotten... The bullet already traveled through about 12-14" of goo before it "failed"... I personally find it funny when people say the bullet "failed" when thier standing over a dead animal.

BTW that was the view I had walking up to the sucker... Just about needed a clean pair of shorts.

 

[Elk Turd]

After your answer I will give my 2 cents! hehehe

Years ago I shot an elk with a 7 mm mag at 30 yards, cheap bullet, broadside, and there was no exit wound. No blood trail, but dumped it in 30 yards. During the processing, we found bits of the bullet all over the animal. I would consider that to be bullet failure, but it still killed the elk.

This year I switched to the Hornady InterBond and shot a deer at 35 yards (I know, shooting in self defense!) and the exit wound was the size of a quarter. Dropped the deer in 20 yards. That, I consider is a great bullet. BTW it was shot from a 300 win mag.

I like the new bonded bullets, and think that yours did the job!!!!! And that sure is a nice deer!

 

[BuzzH]

Two words...Nosler Partition.

Nothing works better or more consistantly, and worth the extra few cents a year. A perfect blend of explosive front, but also retains about 60%, with good penetrating abilities.

I shoot cheap bullets for sighting in and practice, then fine-tune with my hunting bullets. Best of both worlds, cheaper practice bullets and premium hunting bullets. I've killed 15 animals with ONE box of (50) 250 grain partitions through my 338, shot another 8 at the range...and still have another 27 to go. I'll probably have to break down and buy another box in 5-6 years, but well worth the $35/box. I shoot "cheap" sierras for practice and go through 50-100 of those a year, but at $10/box who cares?

Why anyone would worry about a couple cents a bullet when you consider all the other costs invlolved with hunting, is still a mystery to me????

The problem with the more explosive bullets comes in when a less than desirable shot is taken or large bones are hit...

Everyone has to learn the hard way.

 

[Bambistew]

I agree with ya buzz, but I've broken large bones on quite a few elk with a "gasp" sierra... Due to the fact that they have just as high or higher sectional density as your 250 .338... meaning high penitration... It killed em still to. AND that was with a lowely 160gr .284 bullet... Not ideal, but I really doubt that a partition would have done any better. Like I've said, Sierras will reatain just as much weight as any partion. Dead is dead! Bullet failure or not. I've probably killed somewhere in the neighborhood of 18-20 elk with those POS Sierras... My hunting buddy is right up there too. None escaped and I really can't even think of one that took much lead either... with the exception of a couple tough ones. I shot a spike bull and cow that each took two, but they were walking dead... I can think of a couple bulls that got thier shoulder busted and still dropped. Ive had lots of exits with those sierras at over 300 yards too... They work just fine for me and will continue to do so until thier all gone and then I will switch to the accubonds.

I try and avoid hitting the shoulder bone, but it happens. We could argue on this all day long, and I won't change your mind and you won't change mine... Both do what they're intended to do... kill!

 

[Horn Seeker]

Yep, like Buzz said, your shots aren't always going to hit where you plan, heck, even I hit a few inches off once in a while (only if he's running at 300 yards!)

If you hit the front shoulder, especially where that little rib deal runs up the scap, you could be SOL with a cheap bullet!

Does anyone have any experience with the Barnes No leads? I am thinking about trying the X or the new Triple Shock. Will they perform at 30-06 velocities??

 

[BuzzH]

Bambi,

You wont get any argument from me either, we just have different experiences. No problem.

I've made the decision to only shoot partitions for many reasons. They arent that expensive for a premium bullet, very consistant performance, nearly always an exit hole (about 50 cent piece sized), enough damage to kill, but not excessive meat damage, big bones arent a problem, they shoot well in my rifles (although I admit the sierras and ballistic tips shoot a "pinch" better in some cases). Finally, I dont want to wait for a "perfect" shot (in my experience you dont always get the perfect shot, you either take the shot offered or you go home) because I know my bullets arent capable of making a hard raking shot, etc. I also know I'm an average shot at best and I do hit shoulders, etc. once in a while. I dont want any "maybes" when I pull the trigger. I have nothing but cofidence in partitions, they've performed exactly as advertised. I cant say the same for sierra, speer, or hornady...I havent shot anything with barnes.

Like I said, I expect everyone has to learn the hard way.

 

[Buddy]

BuzzH

Elkturd asked me to share Barnes X performance. I have killed 2 Sitka Black tails with them and they performed perfectly. I was shooting 185grn BT’s out of my .338 (3000fps). One shot was at 70 yards and the bullet went in through the back bone just in front of the back hip and ended up in the chest cavity making jelly out of the spleen and lungs (ouch).

The second one was at about 220 yards out….. Boom he was down. I hit a little high and hit the top the front shoulder but the bullet went completely through breaking both shoulders and the backbone. I will stay that he went down hard and didn't go anywhere.

Elkturd and I recovered on of these this season after he shot a rock at some 300 yards and it still retained more than 70%! They can be a challenge to load but they KILL animals

I used to shoot Sierra’s because the shoot so well but I am not impressed with the terminal performance at close range. But to their credit Sierra states clearly that they don’t recommend many of their bullets for ranges under 150 yards.

Due to cost of the Barnes, I really like the Hornady and Elkturd’s Kill!!! reinforces that. But with that said for my .270 and 7mm I prefer/plan on using Barnes X.

 

[antlerrick]

I had an interesting experience this year on our LE elk hunts. My uncle, who also had a tag along with my daughter, and hasn't hunted a lot, asked me to buy him some practice ammo, and some good quality ammo to hunt with, which I did. I bought some 165 gr soft points for practice and then some 165 gr Accubond bullets for fine tuning and hunting with. My daughter dropped her bull like a ton of $hit with the accubond. I called a bull in for my uncle a couple of days later, and he got a little anxious and shot before I could look at the bull and give him the go ahead. The bull was about 90 yds away and quartered to us, and he hit him right behind the shoulder blade on the right side. The bull lunged, and then took off. I made him sit down and gave the bull some time to expire. It had snowed a couple of inches that night, so I knew we would be able to track the bull if he had hit it. We went up to where the bull was standing when he shot and I started following its tracks while everyone else took off up the hill. I had seen the bull turn and go a different direction so I let them go. I never found a drop of blood but noticed one leg would drag every 4 or 5 steps. The bull was jumping logs over 3 feet high, but no blood. I followed the bull for about 100 yards and found him over a small rise in the pines. There was no blood even where I found him dead. Upon examination, the bullet had entered behind the shoulder and was in the hide on the opposite side right in front of the hind quarter. I was really puzzled as to why no blood was found. To make a long story short, we got back to the truck and he was playing with some bullets from his pocket. I asked him why he had those as I knew they were his practice rounds. He said that was what he was hunting with. He felt pretty dumb when I told him they were his practice rounds. The "cheaper" bullet had traveled completely thru the elk to the other side, but no blood came from the entrance hole. Do you think that was due to the "practice round" rather than the better quality ammo he should have used? When I removed what was left of the bullet, I found both pieces, but they were separated, and I'll bet it didn't weigh over 50-60 grains. We may not have found that bull with no snow, but it really gave me the creeps thinking that the thing didn't bleed one drop.
We found a nosler 150 gr from another bull we killed the next day with my neighbor, and it had to still be 125 grs or so, and was found in the opposite side also.
What do you guys think on this???

 

[T Bone]

Looks like the bullet did well.

IMO there are lots of quality bullets on the market.

I have 100% faith in Hornady's standard Interlock bullet. I've seen elk, deer, antelope, bear,and wild boar go down to 165, 180, and 190 grain bullets out of 30-06 and 300 win. Never had a bad experience with them. I'll keep using them.

I've personally seen good results out of Partitions and Remington Coreloks as well.

The only bullet I've seen fail is the Nosler Ballistic tip. 150 grain out of a 30-06 on a quartering on shot on a mule deer. Bullet impacted on shoulder and completey blew up. Didn't penetrate into chest cavity. Buck was recovered after some extensive sprinting and shooting.

 

[TheTone]

I saw a disaster once with a 180gr Winchester Powerpoint from my cousins 308. He shot a big 6 point bull at about 35 yards right on the sholder. He got no penetration from the bullet into the chest cavity, there was just a pit from the bullet on the shoulder and muscles. Luckily he blew enough pieces of shoulder blade apart to send chunks of bone into the lungs and tear them up. I couldn't believe how lucky he was. Knocked the bull down initially, then he got up and stumbled about 25 yards before going down for good.

 

[Buddy]

I have seen the no blood thing a couple of times. One these occasions the entrance wounds were high and clean therefore all the bleeding occurred internal to the animal. This happen on a deer I shot in Utah using my .308 and a 150grn Sierra Gameking. The bullet entered just above the front shoulder (high) and traveled to just under the skin on the opposite hind quarter. The recovered bullet retained 72% and was a picture perfect mushroom as shown in pics in the reloading manuals. The deer went 150 yards and didn't leave a single drop of blood on the trail nor did it have any blood anywhere on the outside on the hide. It took a few minutes to find the entrance wound, which we traced back from the bullet because it was bulging in the hide of the hind quarter. When cleaning the chest cavity was completely full of blood.

 

[Horn Seeker]

Buddy, you could load a kernal of corn in a 338 and kill a Sitka!! LMAO!!

In 98 I worked for an outfitter as camp cook and this guide and dude came back with a story. The guide got the dude on a bull, the dude fired and dropped him, 300 win. Just then 3 monster bulls step out in the open by the dead raghorn. The dude gives the guide his rifle and says "go gettem". So the guide takes off to cut them off. This big 6 with a dropper on each antler steps out at 40 yards, he puts the crosshairs on the shoulder and squeezes. Boom. Bull jogs off. Blood trail ends quick (in snow) Guide goes and gets other to help get dudes bull out and he goes back on the track. Tracks him for 3 miles and NOTHING. No blood, no bull. Several weeks later another guide sees the bull feeding like nothing is wrong.....

Can that be a true story??? Or do you think the guide flat missed and made the story up?? Maybe the winny had 125's loaded in it???? But it had just dropped a raghorn??

Buddy, just ribbin ya up there, thanks for the bullet performance info! I am seriously looking at loading the X or Triple shocks in my 30-06 this year.

HS

 

[Woodrow]

First of all, congrats on the buck Bambistew. I don't know that the bullet failed, but I am surprised by the amount of expansion it seems to have had for a bullet that is supposed to penetrate deep into big game. If that were a quartering shot on an elk, I wonder if the expansion would have been so wide that it would hinder the penetration?

In regards to bullets, it's not a real applicable report for most of you guys, but I'm loading 130gr Hornady InterBonds in my 270win this year...I shot a 70 lb spike behind the shoulder at 100 yards and got plenty of expansion on such a small deer, hitting no major bone or muscle. The exit hole was about quarter size and the blood trail was easy to follow. I have heard excellent reports on how tough this bullet is, but in lots of my hunting, a bullet can be too tough...not the case with most of yall of course. The InterBond is not necessary for 80% of the hunting I do, but what I like is that I feel it fully covers all my possible needs...the biggest thing I'll likely shoot is 200 lb deer or a big hog (Hopefully one of these days I'll get to head to the mountains).

Horn Seeker, I think that story could be true, but that certainly doesn't mean it is...

I know of a guy that shot a Tx whitetail doe (under 100 lbs) in the neck with a 270, he dropped her, but she got up after several minutes and took off. There was "a good amount of blood" where she had fallen, but they never found her. Several days later, another guy saw the doe out and about w/ a huge scab on her neck...both sides.

I also know of a guy that shot a Tx WT buck (est. 140 lbs) high on the shoulder (don't know the caliber here, but it wasn't a pee shooter)...they found blood, but never found the deer. The next day they found the same buck chasing does and he put him down for good that time.

Crazy things happen, a lot of stuff doesn't seem explainable...but the more we know about our equipment and our quarry, the better off we are. I don't think there is a #1 caliber or a #1 bullet, but the more we know about all aspects of what we are doing, the better we can determine what we need...

 

[hunter cameron]

Hey I have a question the deer I shot this year had a entry hole about the size of a peach. I hit it about 5 inches back from where bambi stew hit his . But it never had a exit hole . The deer was a mule deer .This was a winchester 150 grain super X power point bullet. I was using a winchester 70-70 30-06 . It dropped the deer exactly broadside at 150 yards . Then it got back up for 3 seconds didnt move just was wobbling then dropped again , and died . I went , and viewed my buck he was dead .On inspection . The deer did bleed a little when first hit. Then the cavity had a little blood also . I wasnt concerned about recovering the bullet which I should of I was to excited . It was my second deer . But I hit the back of both lungs an the liver . It gelled about half of both lungs , and about half of the liver .There wasnt an exit hole when I went up to him . When I came home I skinned my deer . I seen the entry was exactly round as a peach as I mentioned . But the other side had a Just one cracked rib but no exit . The hide also had no exit hole . It looked as if the rib cracked , and broke it but then came back in. Do you think that is why he dropped again after the first time cause the bullet just did more by not exiting? I want to know why there was a big entry , and no exit ? Let me know what you all think . Here is a pic of my buck the side you can see of him is the side that didnt have a exit . The opposite side was the entry .

later , hunter cameron

 

[hunter cameron]

Here is the pic of my deer