Building arrows??

[Scott85]

I’ve shot the same arrow; carbon express maxima hunter since 2011. I feel that it’s time to upgrade and I’ve narrowed it down to Victory VAP TKO Elite and I think I want to build them.
How much should I worry FOC or what about overall weight?
What type of fletching to go with? 3 or 4 vane? Offset? Or whatever else?

 

[p_ham]

I've done the VAPs, I like the RIPS better. Easier to get everything concentric. I'm doing 4 fletch Bohning Heat vanes. I think I settled around 525 grains but It's been a while since I put them together. You're welcome to come over to discuss/ build and check out my setup. I've got an arrow saw and fetching jig too that you're welcome to.

 

[std7mag]

I've been thinking of going to a 4 vane delta v type setup.

With the limitations on my spare time, i find it hard to get in the reloading room, or doing some badly needed smithing, much less pick up a new hobby.

So i'll get someone that has the equipment & know how to do it.

 

[blackbeard]

I did 4 fletch aae max pro on my bloodlines a few years ago, really tightened up my groups. Guess I've never weighed or measured FOC though.

 

[Redman]

I have never used the VAP but seriously looked at them. I went with Black Eagle X Impact. I believe heavy FOC improves arrow flight dramatically. You can get a variety of heavy field points pretty cheap from 3 Rivers Archery on line. My set up is 200gr with 4 2.5 in AAE fletch. It shoots Blazers pretty much the same. When you shoot a heavy FOC arrow you will notice a totally different feel to your bow and it will be very quiet. The penitration is unbelievable with a good one piece cut on contact head. I use Valkyrie Blood Eagles.

 

[p_ham]

I have never used the VAP but seriously looked at them. I went with Black Eagle X Impact. I believe heavy FOC improves arrow flight dramatically. You can get a variety of heavy field points pretty cheap from 3 Rivers Archery on line. My set up is 200gr with 4 2.5 in AAE fletch. It shoots Blazers pretty much the same. When you shoot a heavy FOC arrow you will notice a totally different feel to your bow and it will be very quiet. The penitration is unbelievable with a good one piece cut on contact head. I use Valkyrie Blood Eagles.

I've noticed the FOC having an effect on lessening wind drift and increasing penetration. Quieting the bow and reducing shock is more related to total arrow weight though.

 

[Redman]

I've noticed the FOC having an effect on lessening wind drift and increasing penetration. Quieting the bow and reducing shock is more related to total arrow weight though.

Put a 100gr point on your arrow and then put a 200gr point on. You will see the difference.

 

[p_ham]

Put a 100gr point on your arrow and then put a 200gr point on. You will see the difference.

Moving to a heavier shaft will do the same thing as far as noise. Where you put the weight doesn't matter.

 

[Redman]

Moving to a heavier shaft will do the same thing as far as noise. Where you put the weight doesn't matter.

Yes but moving to a heavy shaft changes FOC so to get optimum performance you should use the lightest spine that gives you the best FOC. I have tested this over the years.

 

[p_ham]

Yes but moving to a heavy shaft changes FOC so to get optimum performance you should use the lightest spine that gives you the best FOC. I have tested this over the years.

So have I, the ONLY point I'm arguing is the physics of what causes the bow to get quieter.

 

[Redman]

So have I, the ONLY point I'm arguing is the physics of what causes the bow to get quieter.

Heavy point up front causes shaft to bend more AKA absorbing more energy from the bow which in turn makes the bow quieter. There is a point where to light of a spine will cause serious issues with arrow stability and possibly failure. Dr. Ashby gets real involved with it. It is even more amplified with a light recurve bow. Get a light spined shaft and gradually increase point weight. You will see what I am talking about. There is a long process you can get into if you like to tinkering around. Each arrow can be tuned based on the "sweet spot" of the spine. You can find that by knock tuning. I have done this and spent a lot of time. Basically can shoot impressive groups with field points and no fletch on the arrow. Just like handloading for a rifle to get optimum speed and accuracy but you have to read pressure signs, velocity spread, and etc. With spine you have to read what it is telling you before failure.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Heavy point up front causes shaft to bend more AKA absorbing more energy from the bow which in turn makes the bow quieter. There is a point where to light of a spine will cause serious issues with arrow stability and possibly failure. Dr. Ashby gets real involved with it. It is even more amplified with a light recurve bow. Get a light spined shaft and gradually increase point weight. You will see what I am talking about. There is a long process you can get into if you like to tinkering around. Each arrow can be tuned based on the "sweet spot" of the spine. You can find that by knock tuning. I have done this and spent a lot of time. Basically can shoot impressive groups with field points and no fletch on the arrow. Just like handloading for a rifle to get optimum speed and accuracy but you have to read pressure signs, velocity spread, and etc. With spine you have to read what it is telling you before failure.

Never heard that before but it kind of makes sense. It sounds more like a weaker spine (which is impacted by point weight) is the real factor beyond total arrow weight and not point weight.

 

[Fire_9]

I’ve shot the same arrow; carbon express maxima hunter since 2011. I feel that it’s time to upgrade and I’ve narrowed it down to Victory VAP TKO Elite and I think I want to build them.
How much should I worry FOC or what about overall weight?
What type of fletching to go with? 3 or 4 vane? Offset? Or whatever else?

I’d shoot for 450-470 grains. I wouldn't worry about FOC at all. Like zero thought about it. Different fletching configurations may or may not make a difference. Trying them is the only way to find out

 

[Sheltowee]

I’ve shot the same arrow; carbon express maxima hunter since 2011. I feel that it’s time to upgrade and I’ve narrowed it down to Victory VAP TKO Elite and I think I want to build them.
How much should I worry FOC or what about overall weight?
What type of fletching to go with? 3 or 4 vane? Offset? Or whatever else?

I would have a rough idea of target weight and FOC in mind but don't obsess over 0.1% here or there. I build my own Black Eagles (Spartans, most recently) and have greatly enjoyed the tinkering process. I shoot a 3 vane with slight offset and have experimented with a few fletchings/jigs over the years. That said, the best luck I've had was with the NAP Quickfletch-- just make sure your water is heated to a whisker below boiling, then submerge the fletched shaft for 20-30 seconds.

For what little it is worth, this has been my favorite recipe so far for my Elite Impulse drawing 60lbs but it is likely *too* heavy:

 

[Redman]

Never heard that before but it kind of makes sense. It sounds more like a weaker spine (which is impacted by point weight) is the real factor beyond total arrow weight and not point weight.

There is a sweet spot when chasing FOC. You can go with a heavy arrow/stiff spine but you aren't gaining the "optimum" performance and you are increasing your point weight to get more FOC. If you can play with different arrow spines and increase point weight and turn your nock to find the sweet spot you will find what you are looking for. There is a limit to where a heavy arrow will stall and not penetrate as well as a lighter shaft with higher FOC. The ATA spine recommendations for arrows is a "guide" not 100% fact. You will also find that arrow manufacturers will not give a thumbs up on going on a lighter recommended spine...lawyers have made them afraid. Chronographs and paper tuning (without fletch) tell the story on what your arrow is doing.

 

[Redman]

I would have a rough idea of target weight and FOC in mind but don't obsess over 0.1% here or there. I build my own Black Eagles (Spartans, most recently) and have greatly enjoyed the tinkering process. I shoot a 3 vane with slight offset and have experimented with a few fletchings/jigs over the years. That said, the best luck I've had was with the NAP Quickfletch-- just make sure your water is heated to a whisker below boiling, then submerge the fletched shaft for 20-30 seconds.

For what little it is worth, this has been my favorite recipe so far for my Elite Impulse drawing 60lbs but it is likely *too* heavy:
View attachment 261219

When you get to 20+% FOC then you will notice good things.

 

[N2TRKYS]

3 vanes and don’t sweat FOC cause it doesn’t matter as much as folks think it does.

 

[Fire_9]

When you get to 20+% FOC then you will notice good things.

Unless you’re shooting past 30 yards. A 450 grain arrow that flies true with a good broadhead will kill anything in North America with ease. If a guy doesn’t care about trajectory, you’re correct, load it up. If a guy cares about having his pins closer together, find a balance…

 

[Smtn10pt]

The first thing I do is to put a bare shaft on the string and mark the top of it with a sharpie. The shoot it at a target from about 5 feet and take note of what way your arrow spins coming off your string. You will want to choose fletching that works with the natural spin of your arrow.

 

[ccc23454]

The first thing I do is to put a bare shaft on the string and mark the top of it with a sharpie. The shoot it at a target from about 5 feet and take note of what way your arrow spins coming off your string. You will want to choose fletching that works with the natural spin of your arrow.

Your going to left fletch if arrow spins left? Many arrows do, good luck keeping your points installed.