Bozeman: is it really that bad anymore?

[Dust Rider]

Bozeman really needs a new era trailer park for all the beat down trailer warriors. The removal of the old trailer parks on Aspen, and N Rouse has created neo gypsy caravan issues. The compound by the old Kmart is the nasty one. It’s a complex issue, but it needs to be addressed.

The storm today was awesome! Over 24” of snow and drifts up to 3’ east of town. Took 8 hours with thrower and tractor to dig out.

 

[Beignet]

The housing prices that were worrying in this 1994 High Country News article seem quaint today.

Circling back around, seems like folks had plenty to complain about even when the author of the article OP linked thought it was at it’s best.

Montana town puts out unwelcome mat - High Country News

BOZEMAN, Mont. – This quiet, mountain-ringed college town just north of Yellowstone National Park has now been discovered by everyone from movie stars to footloose entrepreneurs and just plain folks. But to the people who live here the influx is more invasion than discovery. This is how a local...

www.hcn.org

 

[The Hedgehog]

Shitty spring weather doesn’t scare them away anymore. If you visit where the immigrants live now - a little shoveling is not a big deal.

 

[peterk1234]

Bozeman really needs a new era trailer park for all the beat down trailer warriors. The removal of the old trailer parks on Aspen, and N Rouse has created neo gypsy caravan issues. The compound by the old Kmart is the nasty one. It’s a complex issue, but it needs to be addressed.

The storm today was awesome! Over 24” of snow and drifts up to 3’ east of town. Took 8 hours with thrower and tractor to dig out.

It did not suck. A little backcountry skiing today.

 

[Sytes]

Amazing powder! That's dream skiing!

 

[Dust Rider]

It did not suck. A little backcountry skiing today.
View attachment 269966View attachment 269967

What? Massholes that know how to ski? This is not Mount Tom!
Wicked Sweet

 

[sacountry]

Can't believe this thread is still kicking. Who knows maybe HT needs hyper local city pages, not just state pages...maybe from there Randy will develop a subsection...."single white male hunter in search of".....your thread then completes the sentence. "...SWFH with magnum rifle primers" or something to that effect.

 

[PaulRevere]

In Montana, an Avalanche of Wealth Is Displacing Workers

The people who feed, clothe and clean up after the West’s rich newcomers can’t afford to live alongside them.

inthesetimes.com

 

[Treeshark]

From an economic perspective, it seems like these situations would self-equalize at some point.

 

[Straight Arrow]

would self-equalize at some point.

Please define / elaborate?

 

[BirdManMike]

Went to Gallatin Valley mall today. Plenty of young freaks and geeks meandering around. Glad to see malls aren’t completely dead, que nostalgia. Stopped at Rooks, too, to peruse Magic (THE GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME) cards. Bought a couple. Bozeman isn’t all bad.

 

[Hem]

What? Massholes that know how to ski? This is not Mount Tom!
Wicked Sweet

You must be up there in the years if you recall Mt.Tom.

 

[Treeshark]

Please define / elaborate?

What I meant is that either income levels for low to unskilled workers would eventually have to rise/housing be either constructed or otherwise become available or the system collapses at some point.

From the article:

The average rental in Livingston now goes for more than $1,500, while the average renter’s hourly wage is $12.79. Before taxes, that comes out to three weeks of work for one month’s rent.

My point was in response to that in particular- that’s obviously not sustainable, and it only has a few possible conclusions in an environment where living in a tent/outdoors isn’t a viable option year-round. People like this wind up completely displaced, and there is a gigantic vacuum created for those who previously provided vital services. Rich people moving in rely on these people’s work and eventually notice when they are no longer there.

 

[Straight Arrow]

What I meant is that either income levels for low to unskilled workers would eventually have to rise/housing be either constructed or otherwise become available or the system collapses at some point.

From the article:

The average rental in Livingston now goes for more than $1,500, while the average renter’s hourly wage is $12.79. Before taxes, that comes out to three weeks of work for one month’s rent.

My point was in response to that in particular- that’s obviously not sustainable, and it only has a few possible conclusions in an environment where living in a tent/outdoors isn’t a viable option year-round. People like this wind up completely displaced, and there is a gigantic vacuum created for those who previously provided vital services. Rich people moving in rely on these people’s work and eventually notice when they are no longer there.

I completely agree theoretically. However, the situation seems to have just stagnated for several years around Bozeman. Even though fast food places pay higher than ever wages, yet the cost of living far outpaces the wages. The number of old RVs and other living spaces parked on the new streets in yet undeveloped neighborhoods is crazy, especially in the face of a really snowy and often cold Montana winter.

For employees and for employers you would think it would not be "sustainable", but the the situation just continues amid new and greater challenges for both.

 

[Treeshark]

For sure, I agree. When I said “self-equalize” in my earlier posts, two caveats to that thought:

1. That’s on a timeline that’s probably going to take decade(s), not years.

2. I meant equalized in relation to present state- things don’t ever seem to go even close to back to the way things originally were before in these scenarios. Bozeman is kick-ass despite a lot of the current issues, people aren’t going to suddenly forget about it or think it sucks.

I personally know two different guys that would love to buy something out there when things “get less crazy” (and a third that luckily did just a few years ago). They might be waiting a while!

 

[Mountain Man]

Understood. You certainly have earned that right and option for your residences' choices.
As someone with kids and grandkids here, and knowing many young people, I just feel it's a situation very difficult for the many young families who can't buy the American dream of a home of their own to settle into the community and contribute with their great potential the citizenship of belonging.

This is the crux of the issue. Change is a constant, but I feel like the speed at which the housing costs have increased in the small mountain towns over the past 10 years is unprecedented in history. It has happened faster than local municipalities and planning boards could adjust, and has striped away the opportunity to remain in one's hometown for a generation of young families. It truly is a sad situation. Everyone who is over 40 years old and had an opportunity to buy a house in their 20s or 30s, is set. Everyone in their 20s and 30s now who don't own a home are screwed and will either need financial help form their parents to buy or move away from their hometowns.

 

[Mountain Man]

In Montana, an Avalanche of Wealth Is Displacing Workers

The people who feed, clothe and clean up after the West’s rich newcomers can’t afford to live alongside them.

inthesetimes.com

That was a very well written article that covered a lot of ground. Here is the paragraph that jumped out to me:

"When I tell people outside of the West about what’s happening here, I often get some version of this response: “What did you expect? These are desirable places to live.” But this wasn’t al- ways the case. The vast swaths of public land that comprise the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem remained in the public domain for the same reason they retained most of their biodiversity (including one of only two populations of grizzly bears in the lower 48): They were considered undesirable — lands too rugged, steep or remote to be plowed, mined or otherwise exploited. What has changed — what the explosion of the outdoors industry represents — is that companies have found ways to extract profit from these once worthless lands, to sell their wildness and beauty and bio- diversity. To bring to market, in short, things that exist here largely because the landscape’s ruggedness spared them from the market. "

I think this statement is spot on.

 

[Straight Arrow]

That was a very well written article that covered a lot of ground. Here is the paragraph that jumped out to me:

"When I tell people outside of the West about what’s happening here, I often get some version of this response: “What did you expect? These are desirable places to live.” But this wasn’t al- ways the case. The vast swaths of public land that comprise the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem remained in the public domain for the same reason they retained most of their biodiversity (including one of only two populations of grizzly bears in the lower 48): They were considered undesirable — lands too rugged, steep or remote to be plowed, mined or otherwise exploited. What has changed — what the explosion of the outdoors industry represents — is that companies have found ways to extract profit from these once worthless lands, to sell their wildness and beauty and bio- diversity. To bring to market, in short, things that exist here largely because the landscape’s ruggedness spared them from the market. "

I think this statement is spot on.

I agree. The unfortunate result is that the lands once thought too rugged and steep are now being spoiled by the degradation of structure and beauty by enormous earth moving equipment which carves homesites out of the steep slopes to build Mcmansions and dense developments which then ironically eradicate the natural beauty and the pristine peaceful quality of those wild lands, the very quality that attracted those to move west to the mountains. The resultant externalities of such development which are even worse are the continual adverse impacts to watersheds and to wildlife habitat.

 

[Nameless Range]

The article shared above is a good one.

This thread keeps going, but I think it is in part because what is happening to Bozeman really is unprecedented to anyone who is alive. If you look at growth rates, housing markets, even compare it to some of the localized growth explosions Colorado saw 30-40 years ago - no one has seen anything quite like this before.

I go to Bozeman a half a dozen times a year for whatever. Spent the last two days there. It really is a nice place. Has a smallish town feel. Provides access to great country in nearly all directions. People there are nice.

Though, when compared to the rest of Montana, it’s just crowded, busy, and increasingly filled with people who are, in culture and else, very distant from the Montanans who were products of Montana that I knew when I was young and thought I knew what Montana was. Ain’t it so everywhere.

 

[Dust Rider]

You must be up there in the years if you recall Mt.Tom.

Yup. Old man on the mountain.