Bounty Hunting

[BuzzH]

I'll say that just because some dude has the money to pay for governors tags and hire mossback...doesnt automatically mean the guy is a good hunter either.

Some guys that kill animals are just "clients" all their lives and couldnt find a turd in a cesspool without a guide and a posse.

 

[schmalts]

. You are speculating and Ranting like Schmalts ?

I don't rant anymore about shit head ORGS like SFW and the UT embarrassment to hunting with all the auction tags anymore. I used to years ago and was called a whiner, now i can sit back and say "i told you it would come to this". I am glad to see other guys like Greenhorn and Oak step up and say something.
Bottom line is this, UT is out of control, and i truly believe the elk population and quality is the best it will ever be and cannot be improved so i say cut all the wealth tags now and listen the whining of those chairpersons that make over 70K a year to organize banquets. Besides, I don't believe that much of the elk hunting quality and habitat has much to do with the ORGS as much as what the DOW has done. Prime example, the deer hunting in UT still sucks compared to what it used to be. But anytime there is a great improvement in UT SFW beats it's chest saying it was because of them, but when there is a failure it is because of yotes and wolves.

 

[Whiskers]

Could it be the guy that has the most to gain by whoring out the publics wildlife?

Now guides are WHORES? Clients are Johns? I think all the guides are doing is trying to make a living. All the clients are doing is trying to hunt as ethical as possible in an area they are not familiar with. Not all are, but most.

As far as fat cats and fat wallets go, thats all amatter of perspective. To some people I am a fat cat, with a fat wallet, because I worked for the last 44 years, saved my money. To me you guys that live out west are rich, just because of where you live.

One of the problems the hunting community has and must overcome is the in fighting. Just because someone wants to pay a guide, doesn't make him any less a hunter, or less passionate about his sport than those that don't pay a guide. It just means he doesn't have the time to scout areas as some others do.

I used a guide once on a trip to Maine, because I didn't know the area, the regulations, didn't have a place to stay. I didn't kill a deer either, didn't even see a buck, one doe, several moose, and a Wolfe.

 

[The Hedgehog]

All the clients are doing is trying to hunt as ethical as possible in an area they are not familiar with. Not all are, but most.

Yeah right.

Even more confusing, why would a hot babe try to stick her finger in a guy's ass during sex?

 

[Whiskers]

Greenhorn, maybe you like it.

What would you rather have, someone unfamiliar with the area coming in, trespassing on private property (unknown) getting lost (costing taxpayer money to rescue). Or this person pay an outfitter so he is not wandering across private property, and increasing revenues in the area.

In my area, we have headboats, fishing guides, duck guides, and some deer guides. We have game farms for bird hunts. Are all these guys whores? Trying to make money off the fruit of the land or sea. Are commercial fisherman Whores? How bout a farmer that rapes the land to grow tomatoes.

 

[BigHornRam]

Oak you said...."There are lots of other ways to make money, with or without the use of tags, that don't exploit the animals the way the current system does."

So far you have only given ONE example. Can you please share with us a few more "lots of other ways"? Thanks.

 

[BigHornRam]

"I also dont rely on public owned wildlife for my income." So what do you rely on for you income Buzz? Is what you do more important than how anyone else makes a living? Does a game warden "rely on public owned wildlife for his income"? Is that bad?

 

[Moosie]

Greeny, Thats a Good question. Click here :

ADULTS ONLY

Schmalts, It's better then ever hunting Utah, You could argue that it is because of the Money just as well as you can Argue it's not.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Moosie, get real. It's good elk hunting in Utah due to highly restricted bull elk hunting, period.

Just ask yourself.. What would Chuck Adams do?

 

[Moosie]

What ? Limiting the amount of hunters help the Elk population ? Lemme think about that for a bit.

I just care if you saw the video.....And if that was you in it ?

 

[Spitz]

Even more confusing, why would a hot babe try to stick her finger in a guy's ass during sex?

Greeny, are you sure it was a babe and are you sure it was a finger? Maybe you shouldn't fall for the blindfolded sex next time.

Where is Utah elk hunting going to go from here? Have they started down a slippery slope where for the sake of the money and the elk, it'll become more and more exclusive as more auction tags are sold, or will the Utah Fish and Game pull their head out of their arse and keep the system one of a LE draw permit with just one auction tag per species?

 

[The Hedgehog]

Hey don't drag me into this.. it was just a question.

 

[MattK]

It seems to me everyone speaks of a "slippery slope" when dealing with gun control. They even talk about it when speaking of hunting grizzlies, bison, black bear (using dogs), trapping, etc...all of which have been limitted or stopped at some point. All of this is also seen as a detriment to hunting or diminishing hunting rights. I would have to concur these do limit hunting and all of it has shadowed hunting. I personally think "bounty hunting" and super tags are another limitation being placed on hunting. Having tags that are sold to the highest bidder, who could be the same person year after year, takes away hunting opportunity from anyone else who doesn't have the large wallet. Landowner tags are essentially the same thing. The more limitted the "average" hunter is the more interest is lost in a sport we all love. If enough people lose interest...it goes away and would be lost to everyone. I don't always believe in the "slippery slope" argument but look at the number of hunters today compared to the past. Interest has decreased significantly and a lot of it has to do with the decrease in opportunity. So are super tags, landowner tags, etc actually helping or hurting hunting? Just something to think about...

 

[schmalts]

Moosie, get real. It's good elk hunting in Utah due to highly restricted bull elk hunting, period.

Just ask yourself.. What would Chuck Adams do?

exactly... what do you think else is the reason?? UT isnt hurting for water, they areant hurting for habitat, and SFW didnt go and make this all happen by making ponds and buying land. It is restrictions. But Don Peay will pound his chest defending all the wealth tags saying that those were the reason why. Dont get me wrong, they may have helped, but not anymore than the F&G could have if they wanted to do the same. Bottom line, you cannot improve the elk hunting in UT anymore, It isnt possible when you have to have "management hunts" because there are too many bulls so drop the wealth tags and let the hunters get the tags.
So explain again why the deer hunting still sucks compared to years ago?? Same reason as elk, they let out too many tags on certain units, had a few bad winters, ect.

 

[Oak]

Oak you said...."There are lots of other ways to make money, with or without the use of tags, that don't exploit the animals the way the current system does."

So far you have only given ONE example. Can you please share with us a few more "lots of other ways"? Thanks.

Have lots of other raffles. Sorry, I'd like to stay and debate this, but I'm going to go try to kill a Colorado raghorn with my $45 tag. Later, ladies...

 

[JohnSWA]

Animal? What animal? All I see is a bunch of folks dressed in "Wish I had that kind of money".

Pathetic.... Very sad

 

[1_pointer]

Besides, I don't believe that much of the elk hunting quality and habitat has much to do with the ORGS as much as what the DOW has done.

I would only agree to this on the level that the UT DWR limits the amount of tags. Right around 70% of this state is in Federal ownership, so (I would even go as far as to say most) much of the habitat work that has benefitted these species is through Federal dollars.

UT isnt hurting for water

It is the 2nd driest state in the Union. I'd say it IS hurting for water, not so much for the animals to drink, but to grow more productive habitat.

I am not against 1 auction tag per species per state, but ALL the money goes to the state wildlife management agency. Giving these tags to groups like SFW, RMEF, FNAWS, is crap IMO. Especially the amount of tags that UT has deemed fit to give these groups. Not that these groups don't help, but Christ, this state is only a step away from giving all tags to the largest landowners or the richest folks.

UT has the best trophy elk hunting in the country, IMO, due solely to the fact that they have managed the majority of the herds for 8+ year old bulls. This has been accomplished mostly through limiting hunter opportunity for bulls. In many of these same units they issue lots of cow tags to keep the herd numbers at objective. Sure there's a pittance of any bull units to hunt during the general season, but most units are spike only and then the LE tags on top of that. Now for the bad news. There's a big push in the state to lower the management objective for bulls down to 4-6yrs depending on the area. All just to sell more tags which in turn will generate more revenue. I hope it doesn't pass, but we may be looking at the 'Golden Age' of elk hunting in UT right now...

 

[TheTone]

I was told of the original issues on this elk (chasing it off private land, army of "guides" chasing other hunters off, etc.) two days after that bull died. The thing is the people telling me about it were in Idaho, not even in Utah. To me that says there must be some truth too it. Utahs biggest problems are the massive amount of tags that have been stolen away from the common man to go to the highest bidder, the fact that a huge groups of arm chair biologists have gotten there way with running the management of the states wildlife, and the absolute lack of oversite they have on guides in the state. I believe I'm correct is saying that outfitters don't have defined territories there as well as stating that pretty much anyone can be a guide without any sort of difficulty in obtainting the license. I'm surprised that the hunters in Utah are putting up with watching their tags continually go to the same rich guys year after year, while the common guy waits to maybe have a chance at one tag in his lifetime. Looking at Mossbacks trophy room on their site will show the same 4 or 5 dorks consistently whacking one of these monsters year after year on a money tag.

Any state with elk could do exactly what UT has done to get these monsters. Its simply a matter of reducing the number of tags to let the bulls reach maturity.

 

[1_pointer]

I'm surprised that the hunters in Utah are putting up with watching their tags continually go to the same rich guys year after year, while the common guy waits to maybe have a chance at one tag in his lifetime.

Nearly all, if not all, of the tags provided for auction come out of the non-res quota...

 

[A-con]

With regards to money controlling opportunity in trophy hunting, the thought occurs to me that Utah is rapidly becoming Texas.