Bounty Hunting

[Oak]

Why not sell a handfull of tags to rich people ?

It's a heck of a lot more than "a handfull" in Utah.

This leads into Land owner tags, Etc. If someone is against a Goveners tag, You should also be against Landowner tags (I would think).....

I am against landowner tags. See above.

(I'm assuming this was the Goveners tag ? If it's not, the same arguement still applies). We have "SUPER TAGS" in Idaho, chances at those if you fill out your Harvest report on time or buy a lottery tag. Same thing, If you don't like the G-tag, you should be fighting to do away with them all.

Apples to oranges, Mooseman. I said hunting opportunities should not be sold to the highest bidder. An ID supertag can be won by anybody that can come up with $6.25 to buy a ticket. How many Governor's tags are auctioned for $6.25?

Where's Browtine? He can tell us where Jim Ryan got his tag.

 

[Steiny]

I could give a rip what those guys want to do, but that aint for me.
I'd rather do things on my own terms, and who cares if the bull is that big?

I like killin big critters and I aint got nothin against guided hunting, but if we need a whole team, I aint interested.

 

[Spitz]

We live in a society where money can buy privileges. I'm okay with that, even though I don't have much money, I have some pretty sweet privileges. I get to hunt as much as my family and job will let me which is quite a bit.

Auction tags don't bug me, they usually only sell one per species and the tag generates a bunch of money.

Any bull taken on public ground with a bow is about as tough as it gets. If I had the cash and knew that Doyle could find me a bull like that, you bet I'd hire him. All he can do is find it, he can't tie it up and shoot it for you.

 

[Oak]

Why not sell a handfull of tags to rich people ?

Auction tags don't bug me, they usually only sell one per species and the tag generates a bunch of money.

You guys should think about where we are heading, not where we are at.

Here's a quote from the Utah DWR website (my emphasis):

The Division of Wildlife Resources has issued conservation permits to generate funds for specific species since 1981. The program began with a “high bid permit” for a desert bighorn ram and has expanded over the years to include all big game species as well as cougar, bear and wild turkeys.​

So utah started out with one auction tag. Here's a list of the Conservation Tags given to organizations for auction in 2007:
2007 Utah Conservation Permits

Wildlife management in the U.S. is based on the Public Trust Doctrine. The more we offer hunting opportunities to the highest bidder, the farther away we get from this basic premise. Here's a good essay on the Public Trust Doctrine if you're not familiar with it (including a bonus jab at Texas ):
Public Trust Doctrine

 

[BuzzH]

I think its ridiculous, for all the reasons Oak and Greenhorn have already listed.

Plus, I think its tough on the game animals themselves anytime big money is involved.

Some of those animals are harrassed and "scouted" nearly year around. The "posse" is out there constantly looking for sheds, photographing them on winter range, keeping track of them during the summer. Those animals just dont ever catch a break.

But, it really isnt about whats best for wildlife for people like Doyle and his rich clients...its all about magazine covers, ego, and money. That is a fact.

 

[Moosie]

An ID supertag can be won by anybody that can come up with $6.25 to buy a ticket. How many Governor's tags are auctioned for $6.25?

The same ticket get's sold and Used. Does it matter if a Rich man or a poor man or a Lucky man get's it ?

Utahs Animals are onthe rise. They produce some Kick ASS Critter tags as of late. Is it, or could it be because they sell alot of Tags to Rich people ?

You're saying they sell alot of tag's. And they used to not. Can you tell me how many more quality animals and hunting opperrtunities have been available since they have had that program ? I might be wrong, but I'm thinking Alot.

Buzz, You shed hunt... so ? Do you fall uner the same deal ? Not all shed hunters harrass game.

There are pleanty of chances for the Average guy. We're not Picked on, Yet we whine at the opportunities rich people have. Whaaaaaaa

 

[Oak]

The same ticket get's sold and Used. Does it matter if a Rich man or a poor man or a Lucky man get's it ?

It doesn't matter who gets it, but the means by which he gets it do.

Utahs Animals are onthe rise. They produce some Kick ASS Critter tags as of late. Is it, or could it be because they sell alot of Tags to Rich people ?

You've got cause and effect backwards. They sell lots of tags to rich guys because they took the initiative to reduce harvest to a point that they could retain older animals. They aren't growing kick ass critters because rich guys are buying tags. I'm not saying the money the tags generate doesn't help maintain what they have, but I don't think it's growing more animals. Limited harvest is the primary reason they are where they are today.

You're saying they sell alot of tag's. And they used to not. Can you tell me how many more quality animals and hunting opperrtunities have been available since they have had that program ? I might be wrong, but I'm thinking Alot.

See above.


From Utah DWR:

One statewide conservation permit may be authorized for each conservation permit species. A limited number of area conservation permits may be authorized with a maximum of 10% of the total permits, assigned to a hunt area or combination of hunt areas, for rocky mountain bighorn sheep and desert bighorn sheep. A maximum of 5% of the permits or eight permits, whichever is less, for any unit or hunt area for the remaining conservation permit species.​

Hey, they're only auctioning off 10% of their sheep tags. What's the big deal? Sheep tags are easy to come by.

 

[Moosie]

...UHhhhhhh.... OK.

 

[BuzzH]

Moosie,

I shed hunt, but I dont follow bulls around and watch them day after day after day for their sheds to drop. Matter of fact, I pick up more "white" antlers than brown antlers.

I also dont have 50 people keeping tabs of elk for me from June-December either.

I also dont rely on public owned wildlife for my income. I also dont need to make the cover of a magazine to feed my own ego. I would be embarrassed to have a picture of myself with 8-20 other people in the photo with a dead critter. If I ever get to the point that I need a "posse" of bounty hunters to help me find an elk to kill...thats the day I hang it up.

Look, you can justify it all you want, but wildlife has not gotten to the point it has today because of the johnie-come-lately governor tags and the rich dudes that buy them. It has gotten here because of the average guys, both resident and non-residents, who have unselfishly supported wildlife conservation for the last century. Thats a fact. Those people donated time and income when they likely didnt have much of either to spare...and they didnt have to be offered a state-wide 365 day trophy tag for that effort either. They did it because they cared about the wildlife and they hunted alongside the rest of the public with tags that everyone could buy or apply for. They didnt expect special privileges, long seasons, or hire posses of people to hunt with their tags. They just went out and went hunting...gee, theres a novel idea.

Wildlife (the publics wildlife) should not be auctioned off to the highest bidder...ever.

 

[Moosie]

Look, you can justify it all you want, but

I shed hunt, but I dont follow bulls around and watch them day after day after day for their sheds to drop.

I also dont need to make the cover of a magazine to feed my own ego. I would be embarrassed to have a picture of myself with 8-20 other people in the photo with a dead critter.

Uhhhh OK? Justify it all you want, Doesn't mean that Utah Shed hunters always sit on bulls till the antlers fall off ?

And you know nothing about that hunter, Neither do I. Maybe he doesn't need to feed his Ego, Maybe he's just like you or me. Wants to hunt hard and edges the bet the best he can. You are speculating and Ranting like Schmalts So what, He has money, Lots of it. Maybe he drew that tag and Hired Doyle, MAybe he bought a Gov' tag. So ? Doesn't mean he doesn't hunt hard, doesn't mean he's a Fat A$$ ATV rider. You're labling him. Guessing, I.E. Making Chizz up because he has Money.

Doyle takes pics with the Posse in all his pictures. Alot o' guys probably felt that elk was part theirs for the effort they put into it. Most of my critters are part other hunters as well. Other guys I hunt with Are part mine. I want to be in the picture You'll see a couple guys in all my pictures (Usually), I feel proud to hunt with guys. Thats a big part of the hunt. I went on my fist "Fully Guided" hunt this year. Hunted with a Good ol' boy from back east. Had a Great time. I spotted game for him and tried getting him on a good animal (Even though I wasn't a guide). The only diff was I didn't get paid to do it. So what ?

Wildlife (the publics wildlife) should not be auctioned off to the highest bidder...ever.

Why can't a few ? I still don't see your point. So what ?

 

[Oak]

Why can't a few ? I still don't see your point. So what ?

Define a few. Go ahead, set a number. How many is ok...how many is too much?

 

[Moosie]

Well..... 10%

 

[The Hedgehog]

Moosie, Oak and Buzz have some points.

And let me say it again, maybe Jim Ryan drew the permit, hired an outfitter, and got it done like so many other hunters that hire a good outfitter when they can. Not to take anything away from Doyle Moss, outfitting, etc.. The guy obviously knows how to conquer elk in Utah.

It is kind of a bum deal to see so many quality permits going to guys with the fattest wallets. ..and those platoon photos, ugh.

Bye.. booty call.

 

[Oak]

I have no problem with Doyle Moss. He's just charging what the market will bear for his service. I don't care for his posse, or the fact that they follow those animals for (what Buzz and I estimated to be) about 10 months of the year. I also don't think he would be able to get nearly as much for his hunts if there were no auction tags sold. Fat wallets created the market for his services.

I'm surprised that you're willing to give up 10% of public hunting opportunity to the highest bidder, Moosie. But I guess you are a fat cat.

 

[BuzzH]

Moosie,

Who said I was referring to the hunter? I didnt see where I said jack about the hunter or his ego.

Hmmmm...lets see...who's logo (copyright) is in the lower right corner of the photo?

Who's ego and pocket is really being lined here? Could it be the guy that has the most to gain by whoring out the publics wildlife? Naaaaa.

 

[Moosie]

Bye.. booty call.

Dam.. I'm still 1/2 hour away, But I did make it home for lunch today hump

Oak, My guess is you're a fatter cat then me. Truth be told, I used 10% because you posted it. I think 1 tag, for each species, should be sold to the Fattest cat that wants to pay for it. All the money should go back into habitat or some "for the animal" deal. Non of this SFW auction tag crap were they pocket part of the coins.

After that, There should be nothing. Although, I'm not against land owner tags. If landowners have a Substancial amount of ground they should be able to get a tag for it. Once they get the tag, They can't sell it though. And non of this Roundabout crap like they do here of giving the tag away and selling a "tresspass" fee. Thats total BS.

If, the landowner sells the tag to the highest bidder, then they should be required to let anyone use their land. That way it opens up the land if someone truely wants deer or elk gone, they should be doing that anyways.

Why should a LAndowner post his land, then ask for tags, to be sold to the highest bidder, then ask for Dep. Money for the crops.

So, If you truely want to knwo what I think, there it is. I am a firm believer of the 10% to Out of staters though. Just not to 10% to the highest bidder.

Bit then again, You knew all along probably how I felt, Sucka

 

[Moosie]

Who said I was referring to the hunter? I didnt see where I said jack about the hunter or his ego.

you're right, I assumed

I'm guesing Mossback is doing what we do as an Engineering firm. When we do a Project we plaster out Logo on it when it' sa 400 Class Bull.. Err Project Yep, everyone will look, and someone with money will use us. He would be a fool if he didn't.

Doyle isn't the only one whoring out wildlife, He just does it better then alot of others

 

[Oak]

Moosie, I had a feeling I was being played, but I played along anyway.

BTW, I remember that you didn't want to leave the stuff in the back of your truck when you parked at my house in the middle of the day, 'cause of the neighborhood. And you're calling me a fat cat...

 

[Moosie]

You still live at that Gheto ? (Actually it was the Kids outside, I have 4 kids.. I know.

Back on the Subject, I am sticking to the point that just because someone pays the coins doesn't make that hunter a joke. Guys like the guy in the picture get's labled by the Mass's as a Cheater because he hired Mossback. Would he have killed a 440 bull without the help of those guys ? Maybe not, I'd go so far as saying probably not. Would i have gotten my Utah bull without help ? Maybe.... But for someone to say they aren't impressed with him because he had help doesn't fly with me either. It was a bow hunt first off. A public hunt second. Big kudos for him. I truely don't have a issue with a couple tags getting bid off to the guys with money.

 

[Oak]

Um, I never knew we were discussing the hunter personally. I don't know the guy from Adam, and am not going to pass judgement on him. If Governor's tags cost $6.25, I'd buy one too. I'm talking about selling premium tags. If you go back through the archives on here, you'll see that at one time I supported auction tags. But they have gotten so out of hand that I can't do it any more. The ridiculous disturbance to the animals, the posse hero pictures, the stories of run-ins with high profile outfitters by average Joe hunters, etc, etc....it has become too much to justify the benefits. It makes us all look like Utards.

No, I moved to a different ghetto. Moving to a new hood in two weeks.