Border closure and spring outfitting season

[OntarioHunter]

Lol Ontariohunter. Those numbers are from cdc website. Where should I look if that doesn't suit you? If you can't get hernia surgery maybe Canada's Healthcare system isn't perfect just like ours isn't perfect. Seriously if your system is overwhelmed with that number of cases something is fubar. How is Trudeaus plan going to get all your vaccines from someone other than your closest ally? Even with a moron in charge we pumped out vaccines and are back open. If Trudeau has done such a great job canada would be back up and running already. At least be honest about the current situation if you want to have a discussion about which government made more mistakes in dealing with this. We could go round and round about this all day so let's just agree that we disagree.

Try CBC website, today's news. Look for third wave has crested in Manitoba but rough waters ahead. ICU patients still climbing even though infections start to drop. Elective surgery just opened up here late last week but the backlog is huge. I am fast approaching an emergency situation so I'll probably get bumped to the head of the line soon ... when my junk is the size of a soccer ball. We got hit hard by the South African and Indian variants. Made a huge mess of things very fast. Canada obviously does not have the same level of health care as US. We are a relatively small populated country with a relatively large land mass. Our regional hospital only forty minutes from the border has all the bells and whistles but it serves an area the size of some small states. Our COVID restrictions are designed around the ability of the physical facilities to respond. The needs of out of country cottagers are a little further down the list.

 

[OntarioHunter]

You have to remember that he has crossed the border several times in the last year. Please, Do as I say not as I do.

Twice which is far from "several." Once in November before the second wave and then again three weeks ago to get vaxed. When hunting in Montana I stayed in my trailer or in the field with the dogs. Groceries and gas were the only limited contact and less of that than if I'd been home. I left home for Minneapolis at noon, arrived at the VA hospital exactly at 6:00 p.m. (vaccinations between five and eight p.m. only), got my vax, got gas (paid at the pump), and drove straight home, only stopping for a brief nap in my car at a rest stop outside Duluth. Arrived at the border at 4:45 a.m. and after the hassles was home at just after six in the morning. Except for the hospital and border crossing, I was essentially in quarantine the entire trip. But I still had to quarantine at home for two weeks. Personally, I think Canada and US should allow anyone who can get a vax appointment in the States to cross the border for it if they can get back in less than six hours. No quarantine. Anyone who stays longer or shows up with goods purchased can get slammed with a nice hefty fine and quarantine. I think the benefit of expediting vaccinations would offset any minimal risks of spreading the virus.

 

[Murphyt]

Ontariohunter I'm trying really hard to see any sense in your argument. I'm quoting facts. 1600 cases and 19 deaths in the whole friggin country has you on lockdown. It's ridiculous. If your country's Healthcare system can't handle that you're in serious trouble up there. And seems laughable that you try and explain why it's safe for you to travel to u.s. but someone like me, who is vaccinated couldn't travel safely to my cottage. Scientifically speaking I have no higher chance of spreading any disease than I normally do. The whole thing has long since left the point of we are just trying to keep the people safe. I will say I agree with you on one point. Why in the F doesn't that idiot Trudeau let Canadians cross at will to get vaccines? We are overloaded with them and throwing God knows how many away every single friggin day! He's too stupid to even help himself out. You don't need appointments down here. Just stop in almost anywhere they are giving them and they will shoot you up and be on your way.

 

[Panda Bear]

Why in the F doesn't that idiot Trudeau let Canadians cross at will to get vaccines? We are overloaded with them and throwing God knows how many away every single friggin day! He's too stupid to even help himself out.

Sir:

I am in disagreement with Trudeau and the Govt on several issues, but I dont see how speaking like this helps.

There are other issues surrounding opening up the borders of The Territories, which I touched on yesterday and we have had only 6 deaths in all three Territories.

I fall on the side of opening the borders --with some measure of testing/caution/vaccinations--but I am in the minority.

p.s. some refuse to take the vaccination because: they are giving the "real" vaccine to everyone but Inuits and they are giving the Inuits a vaccine that will eventually ( in a year or two) kill them People have come to blows over these issues, which of course violates the 6 foot distancing rule

 

[Europe]

Sir:

I am in disagreement with Trudeau and the Govt on several issues, but I dont see how speaking like this helps.

There are other issues surrounding opening up the borders of The Territories, which I touched on yesterday and we have had only 6 deaths in all three Territories.

I fall on the side of opening the borders --with some measure of testing/caution/vaccinations--but I am in the minority.

p.s. some refuse to take the vaccination because: they are giving the "real" vaccine to everyone but Inuits and they are giving the Inuits a vaccine that will eventually ( in a year or two) kill them People have come to blows over these issues, which of course violates the 6 foot distancing rule

He, like so many others are frustrated. Restrictions, mixed messages, rumors, isolation etc, it is taking its toll. Things are pretty calm here on the forum compared to the rising murder rates, carjacking, riots, verbal outbursts, etc in the U.S.. So much mis information, politics, finger pointing. I think many of the posters on this thread, like those getting into fist fights in your area are simply tired and frustrated.

And dont forget my opinion and a nickel will buy you absolutely nothing.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Ontariohunter I'm trying really hard to see any sense in your argument. I'm quoting facts. 1600 cases and 19 deaths in the whole friggin country has you on lockdown. It's ridiculous. If your country's Healthcare system can't handle that you're in serious trouble up there. And seems laughable that you try and explain why it's safe for you to travel to u.s. but someone like me, who is vaccinated couldn't travel safely to my cottage. Scientifically speaking I have no higher chance of spreading any disease than I normally do. The whole thing has long since left the point of we are just trying to keep the people safe. I will say I agree with you on one point. Why in the F doesn't that idiot Trudeau let Canadians cross at will to get vaccines? We are overloaded with them and throwing God knows how many away every single friggin day! He's too stupid to even help himself out. You don't need appointments down here. Just stop in almost anywhere they are giving them and they will shoot you up and be on your way.

1 June: 735 new cases and 17 deaths. But just two weeks ago on 15 May there were 2400 new cases. The peak was end of April with over 4K new cases per day. So things are progressing with new infections. Hospitals are still dealing with the effects of that last wave. I think as soon as they start to empty and as vaccinations are FINALLY ramping up, we should see some relaxing of restrictions. My only concern is that many are not getting their second shots till September and even October. Just how well will they be protected until then? Doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion about that. Will certainly affect decisions about opening the border.

Trudeau can't get the vaxes if the US won't give them up. A lot of crap seems to be going on under the table. I still don't know why the Johnson vax is still unavailable up here. Seems Pfeizer has got some kind of lock on the supply. Something stinks there. Things are finally progressing with vaccinations but it's been retarded. Logistics have been a Chinese fire drill. I have no idea why they decided to put a military general in charge of distribution. Should be someone with experience in the transportation industry. There were way too many fingers in the distribution pot: pharmaceutical companies, various pharmacies, local health units, provincial health, federal military. A confused mess.

Keep in mind that being vaxed doesn't mean you're immune. You can still catch and carry COVID, you just won't be sick or as sick. So until enough people up here are vaccinated, I can see the logic in restricting movement, especially with the new hi-speed variants running amok. It's not about whether or not you will get sick when you go to your cottage. It's about you possibly making others sick on the way, regardless if you are vaxed. The only ones who MAY be immune are the people who got sick with COVID and survived. However, there have been incidents of people getting infected twice. Anyway it's impossible to document who's been infected and who hasn't so those folks have to ride along with restrictions for general population. Cottagers and campers were a big problem when things were relaxed after the last wave. People thought because they're out of sight they can get away with shit like big family parties, reunions, etc. Unfortunately everyone suffers due to the idiocy of a few.

 

[Murphyt]

I'm aware there is a miniscule chance vaccinated people can still get or possibly spread it. There is a miniscule chance anyone could spread an infinite number of diseases. They yap about following science and the cdc has said vaccinated people can travel safely and also don't really need the stupid masks. Just want them to either follow the science and open things up for vaccinated people or admit it ain't about keeping everyone safe. If cdc is the heath and safety gold standard then at least listen to them.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I'm aware there is a miniscule chance vaccinated people can still get or possibly spread it. There is a miniscule chance anyone could spread an infinite number of diseases. They yap about following science and the cdc has said vaccinated people can travel safely and also don't really need the stupid masks. Just want them to either follow the science and open things up for vaccinated people or admit it ain't about keeping everyone safe. If cdc is the heath and safety gold standard then at least listen to them.

So how do you know who in the grocery store has been vaccinated and who hasn't? Honour system? Yeah, right! Until enough people have been vaxed for herd immunity, everyone wears masks. Similarly, how do you know which travellers are vaccinated and which aren't? A vaccine passport is something that should have been ironed out last year between US and Canada. What did they think, vaccines were going to magically appear on everyone's doorstep the same day? I think we both know which side was dragging its feet back then. I see the European Union is finally just getting their vax passport initiated. What's our problem over here? Again, too many cooks in the kitchen. Diplomats, federal and state bureaucrats, and transportation industry all just want to sit around and talk about who will run the program and who will pay for it.

 

[mtmiller]

If cdc is the heath and safety gold standard then at least listen to them.

When the narrative fits anyway. Stupid masks.

 

[Carnage2011]

When the narrative fits anyway. Stupid masks.

That goes both ways. I do some contract work for a company that sends an email daily about Covid. They’ve preached for the last year that they will follow CDC guidelines with mask mandates, social distancing, etc. Two weeks ago the CDC changes their tone about masks and that company says....well we aren’t sure that we agree so masks are still required. You know, whatever fits the narrative.

 

[Rainer]

As someone who works for the Ministry of Health filling out death certificates and helping with funeral arrangements this thread has become humorous to some extent. You want to know the numbers to get the border open? The US will need 75% of the population to be fully vaccinated as well as a vaccine passport and Canada will need a minimum of 50% of the population fully vaccinated. Right now the States has been stagnate at around 50% and Canada is only around 6%. Deal with it, the border is closed and hunts will have to happen next year

 

[OntarioHunter]

As someone who works for the Ministry of Health filling out death certificates and helping with funeral arrangements this thread has become humorous to some extent. You want to know the numbers to get the border open? The US will need 75% of the population to be fully vaccinated as well as a vaccine passport and Canada will need a minimum of 50% of the population fully vaccinated. Right now the States has been stagnate at around 50% and Canada is only around 6%. Deal with it, the border is closed and hunts will have to happen next year

You're kinda doing an apples and oranges comparison. Let's go with percent of population with one dose vaccinated. On both sides of the border it's about the same. Between fifty and sixty percent. US has forty-some percent fully vaccinated but Canada only about six percent. Why the US has so little spread between one dose and fully dosed can probably be explained by Johnson vax which for some reason no one wants to address, is still not available up here. Our govt apparently got spooked by Astra vax's clotting incidents climbing way above the company's and govt's original projections and decided to throw full weight behind "preferred" Pfeitzer type vaxes. Johnson had clotting issues too ... 1/740,000 doses and all of those seventeen out of 8 million were women under age sixty. 1/740,000 is still a lot better odds than driving to the grocery store.

The million dollar question is how effective are the other vaxes if only one shot is given? Even if they are somewhat effective at promoting herd immunity, does it make any sense to say so? Millions will just say to hell with getting the second shot and send everything even deeper into the Twlight Zone.

 

[Murphyt]

Hey Ranier you pulling those numbers out your ass or they come from Trudeau and his inept government? Part of people's issue with this whole shutdown is their refusal to give any sort of metrics for a reopening. You know someone might hold them accountable if they did. Clearly as a government worker this isn't affecting you but Millions of folks on both sides of the border have been affected and are suffering. I agree hunters are probably far down the list but to us its still a major issue.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Hey Ranier you pulling those numbers out your ass or they come from Trudeau and his inept government? Part of people's issue with this whole shutdown is their refusal to give any sort of metrics for a reopening. You know someone might hold them accountable if they did. Clearly as a government worker this isn't affecting you but Millions of folks on both sides of the border have been affected and are suffering. I agree hunters are probably far down the list but to us its still a major issue.

What would be the point in Trudeau govt lying about the numbers? That's the problem with conspiracy theorists: the conspiracies they propose often don't make sense. But that doesn't matter. The government must be lying even when the lies don't make sense ... because that's just what the government does. Reality on demand.

 

[Murphyt]

That's my question. Has Trudeau given 75% of Americans vaccinated and 50% of Canadians before he will open up? I haven't seen anywhere that he will even discuss any kind of numbers for an opening. I'm far from a conspiracy theory guy but government has and always will have many reasons to lie about stuff.

 

[OntarioHunter]

That's my question. Has Trudeau given 75% of Americans vaccinated and 50% of Canadians before he will open up? I haven't seen anywhere that he will even discuss any kind of numbers for an opening. I'm far from a conspiracy theory guy but government has and always will have many reasons to lie about stuff.

Check the news today. The "delta" variation from India has "taken hold" in Canada. The concern is that it not only spreads more easily but research in UK indicates it's also nastier. So how do you expect the govts to lay down any blueprint for reopening when the situation is changing day to day? How do they know how many vaxes will be delivered on time (which has been a problem)? How do they know how many idiots are refusing to get vaccinated until the numbers come in? I was watching the NBA playoff game in Texas last night and shaking my head. If a half dozen people in that packed house have the new variant and only half the people in the state are vaccinated ... it ain't going to be pretty down there in a few weeks. Everyone waving their masks instead of wearing them. Stupid. Looking at that foolishness and we're supposed to throw our borders open those people? Only takes a few idiotic states to wreck it for everyone. I can tell you this with all certainty, the US would be a lot safer to open its borders to Canada than vice versa.

 

[Murphyt]

I expect that government would after this long have some sort of plan to get things open. I mean seriously let's just bury our head in the sand because this or that variant may kill us all. I am a dummy but looking at this objectively I don't think covid ever goes away completely. Either we figure out how to live with it or we are all doomed. And hopefully soon US will open to Canadians. I have seen some chatter that's exactly what may happen later this month. The numbers up there are miniscule and anyone down here who wants a vaccine can get it. You either are vaccinated or living your life like normal, Nothing else you can do. Why would anyone here give a rip if Canadians come visit? We are basically back open. The imaginary line of the border don't mean shit. Covids everywhere already

 

[SaskHunter]

The ongoing border closure is no longer a COVID issue, but a political one. There is still no plan in place, again, we don't want to know when, we want to know how we'll get there. Two of the top first world nations can't even sit down and have a plan in place for the world's longest undeffended border. Shameful.

 

[Carnage2011]

Check the news today. The "delta" variation from India has "taken hold" in Canada. The concern is that it not only spreads more easily but research in UK indicates it's also nastier. So how do you expect the govts to lay down any blueprint for reopening when the situation is changing day to day? How do they know how many vaxes will be delivered on time (which has been a problem)? How do they know how many idiots are refusing to get vaccinated until the numbers come in? I was watching the NBA playoff game in Texas last night and shaking my head. If a half dozen people in that packed house have the new variant and only half the people in the state are vaccinated ... it ain't going to be pretty down there in a few weeks. Everyone waving their masks instead of wearing them. Stupid. Looking at that foolishness and we're supposed to throw our borders open those people? Only takes a few idiotic states to wreck it for everyone. I can tell you this with all certainty, the US would be a lot safer to open its borders to Canada than vice versa.

If it’s so dangerous and wreckless why aren’t we seeing huge surges of people getting sick? We are living life with basically no issues, and we haven’t had any since things reopened. Hell, Texas has been open for months.

You put too much trust in your government/dictator. At some point he needs to pull his head out of the sand and realize he’s losing people to mental illness. People have a need for social interaction and staying at home everyday for months is a great way to cause depression. Shutting businesses down for 18 months will cause even the most financially stable people to have stress and anxiety.

I don’t care when the boarder opens, but I feel terrible for people trying to make a living in Canada. I can’t imagine trying to raise a family up there right now.

 

[Gellar]

As someone who works for the Ministry of Health filling out death certificates and helping with funeral arrangements this thread has become humorous to some extent. You want to know the numbers to get the border open? The US will need 75% of the population to be fully vaccinated as well as a vaccine passport and Canada will need a minimum of 50% of the population fully vaccinated. Right now the States has been stagnate at around 50% and Canada is only around 6%. Deal with it, the border is closed and hunts will have

We’ve known all along the numbers would be like this to get the border open again, but if I’m vaccinated and I show proof when I cross the border why does it matter if United States Citizens who aren’t crossing the border, never have crossed the border and don’t plan on crossing the border vaccinated?
At this point anyone who wants to get vaccinated in the US has gotten vaccinated. Many people are not getting vaccinated for many different reasons (political, health, religion, lack of long term study, etc) The only way we are going to reach those numbers are by mandating vaccines to travel, not just through the air and to Canada but out of state as well. If that happens I believe we are going to have a lot worse problems in the US than not being able to go to Canada to fish and hunt.