Blue Ribbon Coalition attacks hunters!

[Ten Bears]

IT, I think it was EG that brought YP into the discussion with: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Researchers in Yellowstone National Park found that skiers and snowshoers spooked elk from a distance of 600 meters, he said. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So is YP qualified to cite from, or disqualified as a source. No changing the rules midstream.

I believe there are still questions to answer????

 

[BuzzH]

I see, elk in a 3 acre pen in PA, acclimating to their new environment is the same as elk "acclamitizing" to ATV's and high-powered rifles during an open hunting season are just about the same thing...

Same with a vehicle pulloff in a NP with nobody running them on ATV's or shooting at them...yep, we're comparing the same thing.

You post two crappy, ridiculous, excuses for a defense of elk "acclimitizing" to a 3 acre pen and a NP parking lot (while trying to prove that ATV's and roads are great for elk) ...and yet ignore a whole mountain of info clearly showing that elk are adversely effected by ATV's and road densities.

I'm beginning to think you dont have both oars in the water.

Yep, I'm convinced by your "proof", we need a road every couple hundred yards in all quality elk habitat, they'll get used to it.

 

[Ten Bears]

BUZZ, I'm not sure how you got to where you've got in life, and quite frankly I don't care. You however, suffer from an extremely narrow minded, and self serving, view of life (tempered ever so slightly with that insecurity thing we talked about). If you can't except the fact that elk have the ability to acclimate and adapt to different situations and habitat variances, I can't help you. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Hounding - The reaction of elk to hounding during the dog-training period, from 1 July throughout the summer, was monitored in 1995 and 1996. Twenty four instances of hounding in areas where elk were present were monitored. Hounds were known to be in the vicinity of elk in 10 instances and their probable presence was assumed by the presence of hounding trucks in 14 instances. Elk moved out of their recent home range in 3 of the 10 instances where hounds were known to be present; 2 of these involved the same bull elk. He moved 4.6 and 4.7 miles to new areas during the hounding but subsequently returned to his original location 1 and 2 days later respectively. A cow elk moved 0.6 miles in the third instance and did not return to the original location. Elk did not move out of their established home areas in the other 7 instances nor in any of the 14 instances where hounds were assumed to be present as indicated by the presence of hound trucks.
Logging - Elk reactions to logging operations were monitored during the summer, fall, and winter of 1995 and are under surveillance at this time. Those data are currently being analyzed; preliminary results indicate that the elk adapt to, or are quite tolerant of, logging activity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.uwsp.edu/wildlife/research/wers/projup11.htm

 

[Ten Bears]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> In the designated elk range, habituated animals displaying nuisance behavior near residential areas, roads, or trails will be relocated. Hazing may be attempted in some cases. Those animals that cannot be captured or which continue to display nuisance behavior after 1 relocation attempt will be killed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.wiparks.net/org/land/wildlife/elk/elkplan.htm

 

[BuzzH]

Ten bears, read what you post...

Who cares about logging and hounding???

Who brought that up?

We're talking about ROAD DENSITIES and ATV effects on elk...remember???

I'll concede the issue of hounding, but who gives a shit? When was the last time you used hounds to hunt elk?

Same with logging, it isnt a big deal as long as atv's stay out of the logged areas...GET IT?

Logging can be good for habitat, but the roads that provide ACCESS to those areas that FAT-ASSED ATVers with high-powered rifles can ride into IS NOT GOOD FOR ELK, and elk will avoid those areas or "acclimatize" to room temperature...

Thats a fact, and the mountains upon mountains of literature and scientific study prove that plain as day. If all there was to killing elk is sitting on a road next to a clearcut, maybe even you could get one.

All the elk hunting experts agree with you Ten bears, just sit on your ATV (with the motor running) next to a clearcut, while smoking a marlboro with a Pabst Blue Ribbon in the cupholder, and wait for that 10 year old "acclimatized" 350 B&C bull to offer up that perfect shot...hopefully you'll have your elk hounds along

Elk love those kind of conditions...

 

[Ten Bears]

BUZZ, I used those examples to demonstrate that elk have the ablility to acclimate/adapt their behavior to different disturbances in their habitat, and the disturbance/response doesn't have to fit your textbook life style. Why do you feel the NEED for everyone to take a recordbook bull elk? Do you support "trophy" level regulation restrictions?

 

[BuzzH]

This is like teaching a pig to sing...

You're right ten bears, elk love atv's...we need unlimited atv access and no closed season on elk. No roads should ever be closed, not even during calving season...they like to drop calves on roads with atv's zipping up and down them. Elk "acclimatize" to any conditions in their habitat...nothing is detrimental.

By the way 350 B&C is not even close to a record book elk...

 

[Ten Bears]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> By the way 350 B&C is not even close to a record book elk... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I looked it up in a book a freind let me borrow, and you're right for American Elk (they need to be 375 typ, and 385 nontyp), but you're way off if the elk are Tule or Roosevelts.

One more time: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Do you support "trophy" level regulation restrictions? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Or is it you don't like the idea of somebody hunting differently then yourself?

 

[BuzzH]

Ten, I like a quality experience without the whine of a freaking machine. I think trophy only units are fine, but not good state-wide management. But, from the amount of hunters applying for trophy areas, I'd say at least a few like it.

You can scream all you want, but elk, roads, and atv's are not a good mix, if you deny that, then you're an idiot without the ability to use logic and common sense.

Theres many areas that I've hunted in the past that arent worth a shit now because of roads, increased access, and atv's. Its sad because those areas used to have good hunting and the habitat is still there, but the animals arent.

 

[Ten Bears]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> You can scream all you want, but elk, roads, and atv's are not a good mix,.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hunters with guns and elk don't generally mix either..., but we do it for sport....

You have to apply the right quantities of all factors in order to have a good mix.

There are many areas that I have hunted Muleys in the past, and they're not there in large numbers anymore, but it has little to do with access, and alot to do with habitat progression. Burns and clearcuts are growing into forests.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-08-2003 17:38: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>

 

[BuzzH]

Ten, you are correct, elk and hunters dont mix well...exactly my point with increased access.

The more roads you have, the more atv's you have, the more people you have...the less elk you'll have.

Somewhere in the darkness of your brain...there may be a small light beginning to flicker.

 

[Ten Bears]

I don't know about where your at, but around here we have fewer elk hunters then we had 8 - 10 years ago.

 

[JoseCuervo]

No Shit!!! Ten you never cease to amaze me. Do you not have a memory left? Has too much exhaust and Pabts Blue Ribbon left you incapable of remembering the changes the F&G went to in Idaho for Elk????

We created Zones in this state, to keep people from roaming the state, about 8-10 years ago. The goal was to try and provide a quality experience.

Every flippin' area in the State has fewer hunters compared to 8-10 years ago. I used to hunt the Clearwater On October 10, then hit the Opener on the Payette on October 15, and then back up North. I could hunt for 30+ days, if I wanted, from one end of the state to the other. Now I have 10-20 days in one Zone.

That is a good thing, Banning the "roaming" of the State.

 

[JoseCuervo]

More Dumb Statements from Ten.... It is amazing, the endless supply of these...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
BUZZ, here are some references to elk having the ability to acclimate to human activity.
(Refers to Elk in a 3 Acre pen!!!)

I'm sure if elk and other wildlife weren't able to become acclimated to roads and human activity "jellystone" wouldn't be publishing these kind of brochures.
http://www.nps.gov/yell/publications/pdfs/YellToday/2001/summer/page2.pdf (Refers to a Sagety pamphlet that says be careful around Scalding Water, don't bring Guns into the Park, and remove Side mirrors from Car when not towing a vehicle...)

If you can't except the fact that elk have the ability to acclimate and adapt to different situations and habitat variances, I can't help you.

Well, I looked it up in a book a freind let me borrow, (This from a guy on the Internet.... Uhh Ten, ever heard of Google??)

Hunters with guns and elk don't generally mix either.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the laughs..... I don't think I could make up stuff this funny...

 

[Ten Bears]

EG, nice cut & paste work, but you still missed the context of the statements. A little less weed and alot more fresh air should do the trick. If you want to refute the statements do, but I think the smoke is messing with you man.

FYI EG you read the whole YP flyer, and missed the part about animals getting to close???? Go back and look under the heading Stay Away From Wildlife. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Yellowstone is not a zoo, and the animals are not tame.... You must stay at least... 25 yards (23m) from ... animals - including bison, elk , bighorn sheep, deer wolves, and coyotes... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

EG, whats wrong with borrowing a book from a freind??? He happens to score animals for B&C and P&Y. Do you???

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 12-10-2003 09:54: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>

 

[JoseCuervo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>EG, whats wrong with borrowing a book from a freind??? He happens to score animals for B&C and P&Y. Do you??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I borrow books, thanks for asking. Right now, I have John Grisham's book "Skipping Christmas" borrowed, and I need to get reading it.

But thanks for checkin if I borrow books. I also buy books sometimes too.

And I am even thinking about writing a book, so again, thanks for the interest in my Books.

I honestly didn't think that flyer was what you were using to make your point. A one-page safety thing, with more information on removing the Side View mirrors on towing vehicles when not towing than on Elk was not what I was expecting. If I was you, I would have found some Yellowstone picture of a Big 350 Bull standing in the middle of the road, blocking traffic.

 

[Oak]

Here, I'll help ya out, TB. The pic is even your size.

I must say that I'm impressed with the skill of the photographer. Got the motorcycle mirror in the shot WITH the elk to show the acclimazation.

Oak

 

[Ten Bears]

Thanks OAK