Blue Lives Matter

[seeth07]

@Big Fin lots of thought put into that post. Could you be so kind and add one more comment to this thread about your opinion how it would be perceived and the reactions you would get and critisms if you were to take a local LEO out on a hunting trip? How about an intercity young black male that has never hunted before?

 

[MTGomer]

Serious question… Where is the bill to address any of the systemic issues that have lead us to where we are?
Like him or not,the president has done more for criminal justice reform via executive order and pardons than anybody or any branch.

It seems to me that Democrats hate Trump so much that they are willing to let republicans become the anti war, criminal justice reform party, just because trump isn’t a hawk on both.
Where is the bill to decriminalize pot at the federal level? Where are the bills to undo parts of the HW Bush/Biden/Clinton crime bills?

Dems should put those things forward, say that’s what they stand for, and dare republicans to oppose them on it, during these times, in an election year.

 

[mdeerjunkie]

Anytime I read that any politician "has done more for" or is "setting records" my bs meter goes off. Give us a break. Hollow claims that they know can't be disproven. It's not just the dems that hate this pres either. This pres is not a real republican, nor are his die-hard followers. Make no mistake about that. It's now a cult, and the republican party is completely lost.

Not agreeing or disagreeing, but Let’s keep this thread on topic...or it will most likely get locked.

 

[Big Fin]

........Where is the bill to decriminalize pot at the federal level? .........

H.R.3884 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): MORE Act of 2020

Summary of H.R.3884 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): MORE Act of 2020

www.congress.gov

Not agreeing or disagreeing, but Let’s keep this thread on topic...or it will most likely get locked.

Yup.

 

[Cheesehead]

That's a very interesting comment to read, concern about being labeled a racist. Causes me to think.

As a white guy who has very little real life context to adequately understand what black people experience, I find that when I listen, I have very little likelihood of being labeled a racist. In an instance like this, I feel compelled to listen and learn, not try to pretend I have answers or that I understand, because I don't understand.

I do know that my rural-white life, lacking any context for understanding these issues first hand, has been bombarded with media and entertainment images of black people as the most common reference points I've acquired. For my young life, the only positive images sent to me that showed black men in a positive light was when they were wearing a uniform with a number on the jersey, a logo on the helmet, or a ball in their hand. Movies I saw or TV shows, fit every possible stereotype the media found useful.

Even through my adult life, I have come to realize that even though my continued rural-white life has a bit more context as a result of some personal relationships, but still lacks much for understanding. And as I've studied media, both news, TV, print, digital, and entertainment, I've come to see that the final picture, the final story, the final draft, is normally approved by a white person, usually a white male, who gets to put his stamp of approval on the final product we consume in media and entertainment. Yeah, we have the occasional black reporter or journalist, but the final say of how the story is told falls to editors, editorial boards, publishers, or senior executives. As such, I've been spoon fed imagery of the black male experience in America through the eyes of white people who have final say in the message.

Do these white folks who have the power that comes with these media and entertainment platforms really understand the black experience in America? Does the final message that we get to consume, a message that sometimes makes up the majority of influence rural-white folks like me will be exposed to, give us any context to understand the reality for black Americans?

I suspect I am not alone among Hunt Talkers or folks in this country who have little personal experience to give context. I suspect a lot are like me in how their view of the black male experience is limited to what we read, see, learn from media and entertainment. When all of that messaging is created through the lens of white males in those industries, I've come to doubt how accurate that messaging is. I would go so far as to say that my reliance on that messaging has made my understanding of these issues even more difficult, as after 55 years I have to put my mind in reverse to try not view this discussion based on the white-centric media, entertainment, or information that got me to this point. I don't feel guilty about that or blame anyone. It is just a reality of how, and from what source, this issue has been presented to me, a person born in 1964. Accepting that as a reality allows me to question things when those media, news, and entertainment images are shown today.

I now purposefully seek a portion of my media consumption that from start to finish is from people of color to try give me a better understanding. I don't need the Ted Turner or Roger Ailes version. I wouldn't piss on Tucker Carlson or Rachel Maddow if either of them were on fire and I don't need their bullshit, "produce for ratings" versions of this complicated topic. I don't need the version of white dominated Hollywood movie funders who are unabashed in their effort to make the greatest profit off whatever narrative can be converted to seats in the theater. I don't need the NTY or WaPo versions that too often come across as the token person of color so the editorial board can check the box. I seek the real life experiences to read and listen to that will hopefully augment my bigger view of the world.

I don't feel I need to have the answers. For me to provide the answers is like asking me to build a house - it's gonna be a bad outcome. I need to learn. I need to listen. I need to be willing to take some risks to do what little my actions can do to help things improve. None of that gives me the slightest concern about being labeled a racist.

Trying to learn doesn't seem like I am at risk of being labeled a racist. I worry that I could let those fears be a cop out for listening and trying to being part of the solution. I support more funding for better training of LEOs and I don't expect I'll be labeled a racist for supporting better LEO pay, training, and selection. If others want to kneel for the national anthem, I don't give a damn and I respect that they have every right to do so. I won't kneel and I don't expect that I'll be labeled a racist for not doing so. I wouldn't be apologetic for supporting police or not kneeling, as there are some very powerful parts of my life experience that form my views on those topics. If somehow a claim of racist is made for that, I suspect that claim would be from someone not interested in progress. Such possible claim is not going to prevent me to try do things in my life toward that collective citizen effort of progress.

I hope to listen, learn, and understand. As my Grandma would say, in reference to the old transistor AM radio next to her ash tray, "Some folks need to stop broadcasting and do more receiving." I'm gonna follow Grandma's advice.

@Big Fin. Really well said.
As someone who has lived in downtown Chicago, England, but mostly the Ozarks and now Kenosha (currently making some headlines), I agree we need to spend less time nitpicking on differences and more time finding common ground.
It’s important, as you point out, that most of what many people in more rural contexts see is highly filtered by white males. This is absolutely true.
I’ll add that in my current rioting city, justice + peace is the answer. One without the other leads to more of the same.
And as that great philosopher Tupac said, even though you’re fed up, ya gotta keep ya head up.

Night y’all. Let’s make sure to stay civil on here so we can keep the discussion going.

 

[Handlebar]

I was very hesitant to post, I am grateful for the responses and very pleased that my fear was unfounded.

@Wildabeast in the same spirit:
The 1619 Project
Ta-Neshi Coates
Al Sharpton
Jesse Jackson
Benjamin Crump
a large majority of College Professors
Politicians who use the issue to get re elected
When you tell black people for over 40 years that they can not succeed or advance because racism is systemic people do begin to accept this as fact. Racism is in fact present, I am not denying that but it is not, IMO, as prevalent as has been made out.
Like Big Fin I was born in 1964. I grew up in Savannah Ga. There was always two sets of drinking fountains even though the signs had been taken down. I remember my grandmother saying she thought it hateful that a black person could go to the drug store for medicine but not get a ice cream cone. I fully accept and believe that a person of color faces obstacles. But I also think that their opportunities are abundant. People will always make snap judgements about another it is part of human beings. Not to sound like I have had it rough, I have been on the northern range for well over 30 years now but when I open my mouth the grits still fly out. Within the first moments of a conversation people immediately assume I am married to my cousin and I grew up without running water and handle snakes during church. I am not trying to equate myself to others.

I found the comment about Criminal Justice reform interesting, as I have wondered about this as well. There is data out there that points out the disparity in sentencing etc. The reform has happened during the current administration from a president that is constantly called a racist. Why was this not achieved during the administration of the first African-American president was the issue more important that resolving the problem? That is the cynic in me.

The really hard discussion in my mind comes down to the root causes because blame will have to be assigned and there is plenty to go around on all sides. It will be difficult to have this for the reason that I talked about earlier and because accepting some responsibility for your predicament is not something that people (myself included) do well.

I said in an earlier thread that we will as a country have to fix this, you cannot go forward with a significant percentage of the population this unhappy, a house divided so to speak.

Again I am grateful for this respectful conversation, like so many other discussions on this board. While I have disagreed with the viewpoint, the vast majority of folks on this board I would still like to have a beer with.

 

[rwc101]

a large majority of College Professors

When was the last time you stepped in a college classroom?

 

[huntin24/7]

“Totality of circumstances”. That’s what will be considered as far as whether or not this is considered a justified shooting. When making that determination, you have to take into account all information know by the officers at the time of the incident and weigh that against their actions. I’m sure none of us know all the facts. Time will tell I guess.

 

[Handlebar]

When was the last time you stepped in a college classroom?

2007

University of Wyoming

 

[Deleted member 28227]

When was the last time you stepped in a college classroom?

Yeah I honestly don’t understand this one at all, just like any profession there are a wide range of political opinions in academics...

I run with a professor at Brandeis every weekend, we talk a lot about hunting, conservation, and generally how polarizing the media is currently.

 

[rwc101]

2007

University of Wyoming

I don't think the survey you conducted while there had a large enough sample size.

 

[Nameless Range]

Trying to learn doesn't seem like I am at risk of being labeled a racist. I worry that I could let those fears be a cop out for listening and trying to being part of the solution. I support more funding for better training of LEOs and I don't expect I'll be labeled a racist for supporting better LEO pay, training, and selection. If others want to kneel for the national anthem, I don't give a damn and I respect that they have every right to do so. I won't kneel and I don't expect that I'll be labeled a racist for not doing so. I wouldn't be apologetic for supporting police or not kneeling, as there are some very powerful parts of my life experience that form my views on those topics. If somehow a claim of racist is made for that, I suspect that claim would be from someone not interested in progress. Such possible claim is not going to prevent me to try do things in my life toward that collective citizen effort of progress.

I hope to listen, learn, and understand. As my Grandma would say, in reference to the old transistor AM radio next to her ash tray, "Some folks need to stop broadcasting and do more receiving." I'm gonna follow Grandma's advice.

I don't want to derail anything, but I would say that portions of the population large enough to be concerning would see those things I bolded as racist, and they also certainly are interested in what they see as progress occurring. I would encourage folks to look into the unrest and threats of violence that occurred at Evergreen University in 2017, and how it mirrors many of the things currently happening, particularly when local governments abdicate their duties to retain law and order.

Grandma's advice is good, but when I am listening I am not talking, and it is a commonly held premise now that "Silence is Violence". Again, I think this is messy, and I don't mean to frame current unrest as a thing with "sides", but I think there are things to be concerned about coming from many different directions.

 

[Handlebar]

I don't think the survey you conducted while there had a large enough sample size.

From a Forbes article I think 2019



Michael Roth, President, Wesleyan University,


There is no denying the left-leaning political bias on American college campuses. Data show that the professoriate has moved considerably leftward since the late 1980s, especially in the arts and humanities. In New England, where my own university is located, liberal professors outnumber their conservative colleagues by a ratio of 28:1.

 

[VikingsGuy]

2007

University of Wyoming

If you think professors at UofWY are particularly liberal, I suggest you take a semester of classes at Sarah Lawrence.

 

[hank4elk]

My worthless take. In 20 yrs of wearing a badge,I figure a full 1/4 I was around , in various agencies, were not qualified nor fit for the job. Physically nor emotionally.
Rotten apples applies to this day.

 

[rwc101]

From a Forbes article I think 2019



Michael Roth, President, Wesleyan University,


There is no denying the left-leaning political bias on American college campuses. Data show that the professoriate has moved considerably leftward since the late 1980s, especially in the arts and humanities. In New England, where my own university is located, liberal professors outnumber their conservative colleagues by a ratio of 28:1.

Even if you proved that every professor in the country walks around in a Bernie 2020 sweater it provides no logical connection with the rest of your claims. Strange how I was never told that black people can't succeed (or what to think about any political topic) in my artsy-fartsy history program or incredibly left-leaning MLIS program.

 

[Handlebar]

If you think professors at UofWY are particularly liberal, I suggest you take a semester of classes at Sarah Lawrence.

Mt experience at UWYO in the ag college I would attest is a little different from Sarah Lawrence or Oberlin! I was speaking nationally in the academic setting.

 

[Handlebar]

Even if you proved that every professor in the country walks around in a Bernie 2020 sweater it provides no logical connection with the rest of your claims. Strange how I was never told that black people can't succeed (or what to think about any political topic) in my artsy-fartsy history program or incredibly left-leaning MLIS program.

I am not sure that I have to prove anything. If you think that most of academia is not left of center, then you and I disagree

 

[longbow51]

get-n-birdy,

Lots of truth there. I'm not ready to give up yet though. I think what we're seeing are the death-throes of generational racism in this country. We're seeing retaliation against the idea that people of color are in fact equal to whites. We as a nation are realizing that we are actually lagging behind much of the developed world when it comes to equality.

It doesn't mean I haven't worked my arse off to get to where I am. It just means that I had a distinct advantage others do not have, and it had nothing to do with money or last name.

Really odd how experiences differ. I was of the Civil Rights generation and I don't actually know anyone who has said or thought that all people are not equal in the last 40 years. I know there are a few desperate white supremacists out there, and likely a way larger number of blacks who are outwardly racist to whites and Hispanics, but I like to think those are small in number, albeit very vocal right now.

All on both sides of the aisle should listen to Tim Scott's speech at the RNC where he talked about the "evolution of the Southern heart" and "cotton to Congress in one generation". Oh, and btw, my father (not my grandfather, like Tim Scott's), quit school after the 4th grade after his father was killed in the logging woods to help support the family. Worked with a bunch of Irish guys building railroads when he was 11 years old.

Things are simply not as bad as they appear right now. As has been pointed out factually over and over, the statistics simply do not support systemic police mistreatment of blacks when you consider their proportion of the crimes committed.

What we are looking at IMHO, is the promotion of Marxism (just like it says in the BLM manifesto) and the rare police shooting is merely the excuse.

 

[rwc101]

I am not sure that I have to prove anything. If you think that most of academia is not left of center, then you and I disagree

If you want to make broad claims about an entire profession and not substantiate it you're only wasting your own time. I never said that academia isn't left of center.