BLM, Forest Service and Nevada Ranchers

[Straight Arrow]

Ringer, it is that type of hearsay unsubstantiated rumor and spin that incites irrational reaction and only serves to exacerbate the problem. It is irresponsible.

If you are going to throw such an inflammatory piece of information out there, at least have the sense to cite the source.

 

[jryoung]

Here is a bit on the involvement of Slimey Harry in this whole thing.

The below listed article with the links will enlighten you about how a corrupt Senator Reid was behind the land grab of the Bundy Ranch. It turns out that Neil Kornze who was raised in Elko, Nevada, and was a former senior advisor on Majority Leader, Senator Harry Reid’s staff, joined the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) in 2011 and had been leading the agency as the Principal Deputy Director; he was subsequently formally appointed Director of the Bureau of Land Management, by a US Senate vote of 71 to 28. The BLM overseas more than 245 million acres of public lands nationwide, including 48 million acres in Nevada. So why did Senator Reid’s aide who owed his appointment to his old boss go after Cliven Bundy’s cattle ranch that had been in the Bundy family since 1870?

It turns out that in 2012, Harry Reid’s son, Rory Reid who is lawyer with the prominent Harvey Whittemore law firm in Las Vegas, became the chief representative for a Chinese Communist Energy Giant, ENN Energy Group. Journalist Marcus Stern with Reuters reported that Senator Reid was heavily involved in a “DEAL,” as well as his oldest son Rory Reid who works for Harvey Whittemore. Rory and his father were both involved in an effort to get the Chinese Communist Energy Giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion utility scale solar energy facility and panel manufacturing plant in the Nevada desert (instead of helping a US energy company benefit from such a development, Harry Reid imported Communists to do own land in Nevada and develop a utility scale solar energy plant). Marcus Stern wrote that that Senator Reid has been the most prominent advocate of recruiting the Communist Chinese Energy Giant, ENN Energy Group on his trip to Communist China in 2011; it was the same time frame when Senator Reid placed his senior senate advisor, Neil Kornze, in the BLM as the Principal Deputy Director. Marcus Stern reported that Harry Reid applied his political muscle on behalf of developing the Chinese Communist project in Nevada. Then in 2012, Rory Reid facilitated the Chinese Communist Energy Giant, ENN Energy Group in developing plans to build the $5 billion solar plant on public land in Nevada by helping the ENN Energy Group locate a 9000 acre desert site that it planned to buy well below the going market value of land sold by Clark County; you see Rory Reid was formerly Chairman of the Clark County Commission and facilitated the deal.

Unfortunately the problem with the area was that the 908 head of cattle in the herd on 67 year old Cliven Bundy’s family Bundy Ranch roamed and grazed free as they had been doing since the 1870, their grazing on open range would interfere with the Chinese Communist Energy Giant, ENN Energy Group’s solar field. So Rory Reid, working with Neil Kornze, trumped up the bogus charge that the grazing cattle were destroying an endangered species, the desert tortoise. The desert tortoise were proliferating (they were not in danger), despite the fact that the cattle from the Bundy Ranch had been grazing in their habitant for over 140 years, in fact the Interior Department had implemented euthanasia of the desert tortoise to keep the population from getting out of control. The BLM’s official reason for encircling the Bundy Ranch and family with sniper teams and helicopters was to protect the endangered desert tortoise which the Interior Department had been killing in mass for some time. Journalist Dana Loesch wrote “The tortoise wasn’t of concern when US Senator Harry Reid worked with the BLM and his former senior aide, Neil Kornze, who was now in charge of the BLM when they were literally changing the boundaries of the tortoise habitat to accommodate the development plans of the Communist Chinese Energy Giant, ENN Energy Group and the second most powerful man in Nevada, after Senator Reid, Harvey Whittemore,” who just happened to be the employer for Rory Reid’s and Rory’s three brothers (Harry Reid’s four sons).

Unfortunately the left of center liberal media establishment spun the story so Americans would view Cliven Bundy as grossly violating federal regulations and a law breaker, not the true story of how a corrupt Harry Reid was facilitating a Communist Chinese Energy Giant to come into the United States, displacing any possibility of a US Energy Company from getting to develop solar energy in Nevada, and arranged for the Communists to get ownership of US public land in Nevada below the going market price, while using Gestapo-style tactics to illegally remove a Patriotic Cattle Rancher off the land his family owned since the 1870s in violation of the rights accorded him by the US Constitution, the 10th Amendment, and the Bill of Rights. It should have been a story about the overreach by another bloated, corrupt, and out of control bureaucracy that was doing absolutely nothing to manage the overgrowth on public land that they were supposed to be doing, while in fact, the cattle from the Bundy Ranch were feeding on the overgrowth keeping the overgrowth under control. The principle and courageous stand by Cliven Bundy in the face of an oppressive BLM and the prosecution by Holder’s Justice Department, while fining him $1 million, illegally rustling 400 cattle of his herd, surrounding his family with snipers, knocking down his pregnant daughter-in-law, grinding Clive’s head into the dirt with boots on his head, arresting his son for taking photos of the Gestapo-type tactics, and tazing his son three times, etc. Cliven Bundy’s principled stand was a Seminole event, Patriotic Americans from all over the Republic mobilized, rode to the aide of the rancher with American flags flying, and supported the Bundy Ranch against an out of control government bureaucracy. When Neil Kornze realized the magnitude of the opposition he and Reid engendered from throughout the Republic, resulting in over 3000+ armed Americans who had arrived on the Bundy Ranch (with thousands more enroute), in opposition to his 200 federal armed guards, Kornze released the 400 rustled cattle he intended to sell, and pulled his 200 federal armed guards back from the brink of an armed conflict with very angry American citizens from throughout the Republic, who now had their own snipers in place at the ranch aimed at the 200 federal armed guards. This attempt at grand larceny by the BLM, and violation of Cliven Bundy’s freedoms all Americans are accorded by the US Constitution requires a Congressional investigation and actions in the courts to charge the BLM. We wonder if the Republican leadership in Congress will do anything about this attempt by an agency of the US Government to support a group in Nevada commit grand larceny on behalf of the Chinese Communists Energy Giant, or will they just let it ride, and hope it goes away?







© 2014

This story would be sensational and fantastic if it wasn't for those pesky facts in the way.

 

[shoots-straight]

sbhooper, did you read this link? I don' t think you would have posted that mess if you had. Another internet fabrication.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...of-Bundy-Ranch

 

[shoots-straight]

So, the BLM is planning a raid on the ranch and homes of the Bundys. All of the people who earn a living off the federal tax rolls will say the killing was totally justified and the welfare sucking rancher and his kids deserved to die. The rest of us will clearly understand that the federal government is only here to help us. End of a tragic and idiotic story perpetuated by total idiots.

The BLM didn't encircle Bundy's home. They were rounding up the cattle. Bundy, and his family approached them.

 

[sbhooper]

sbhooper, did you read this link? I don' t think you would have posted that mess if you had. Another internet fabrication.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...of-Bundy-Ranch

The link does not totally dispel the possibility that dirty Harry has an interest in the land. His connection with the BLM is a little too coincidental in my book. I realize that the Bundys are wrong on this issue and should pony up the grazing fees. It just bothers me that people don't want to believe that Harry Reid could have any interest in this. That guy is corrupted beyond belief and is capable of anything.

There is no legit reason to run the Bundys out of there, other than the fact that they are the last ranchers in the area. I have never been a proponent of grazing on desert landscapes, as it has done historical and irreparable damage all over the southwest, but the government along with the environmental wackos want to remove anything that does not fit their agenda.

I think this thing could get worse before it gets better.

 

[jryoung]

You think the environmental whackos would be content putting in a gigawatt worth of solar on environmentally sensitive desert tortoise habitat?

No debate on Harry, but too many have let their opinion of him cloud their judgements on some pretty basic facts regarding the solar project. Not to mention hilly terrain is terrible for solar too.

 

[Nemont]

Bundy doesn't even have a permit to graze that land any more so he wouldn't be paying back on owed grazing fees, he would be paying all the fines and accrued interest owed for trespassing on BLM land. He forfeited his grazing permit 20 years ago. That is why he has no standing in court.

I don't trust Harry Reid but to say that the Feds are "taking" this land the Bundy's are grazing and selling it to anybody is flat stupid and shows that the low hanging fruit of the voting public will believe anything as long as it confirms their own bias.

Go look at a map and the lands in question regarding development of a solar energy are at least 20 miles from Bundy's "ranch".

Nemont

 

[BuzzH]

Nemont,

The last thing Ringer and his lawn chair militia would ever do is let facts get in the way of their black helicopters and tinfoil hats...

Same old, same old from that bunch.

Anyone with 2 firing brain cells would have known from the start that the Reid/Solar farms were a big hoax. Like you say, look at a map. Plus, as jryoung said, pretty tough to construct a solar farm in broken country out in the middle of nowhere.

I wonder if Ringer is fueling up the 1978 F250, grabbing up all that .223 and .22lr he's been hoarding, a couple cases of Keystone light, and the lawnchair???

Dont start the revolution without him.......

 

[shoots-straight]

sb, here's the map of Bundy grazing allotment:

Here's where the solar development could have taken place:

You will notice the planned development is 20 miles to the east of Bundy.

 

[BuzzH]

Shoots straight....since when have facts mattered?

 

[ringer]

I have a 2011 Tundra and I drink Miller Lite.

 

[smarandr]

I don't trust Harry Reid but to say that the Feds are "taking" this land the Bundy's are grazing and selling it to anybody is flat stupid and shows that the low hanging fruit of the voting public will believe anything as long as it confirms their own bias.

This is what's really wrong with America--not the "Feds" and their supposed gestapo tactics.

The fact that we have three or four threads devoted to this nonsense, not to mention a bunch of Rambo wannabes running around in the Nevada desert, makes me feel very sad and hopeless for our future.

 

[WV Hunter]

This is what's really wrong with America--not the "Feds" and their supposed gestapo tactics.

The fact that we have three or four threads devoted to this nonsense, not to mention a bunch of Rambo wannabes running around in the Nevada desert, makes me feel very sad and hopeless for our future.

This is what makes you sad and loses hope for America's future?

Not the 50% on welfare sucking the country dry........

 

[shoots-straight]

I have a 2011 Tundra and I drink Miller Lite.

So does my wife and daughter.

 

[roadhunter]

This is what makes you sad and loses hope for America's future?

Not the 50% on welfare sucking the country dry........

+1.

 

[Nameless Range]

This is what makes you sad and loses hope for America's future?

Not the 50% on welfare sucking the country dry........

And so it comes full circle with the OP. Tea party idiots and militia freedom fighters pouring out of their Hidey Holes en masse. Passionately regurgitating platitudes about the Constitution, and freedom, and the future of our country. All in the name of the biggest single welfare queen the 21st century has yet seen. They will kill for him - for no other reason than the fact that he is their queen.

 

[Nemont]

The really dumb part is that the guys who would kill for Bundy in the name of the Constitution don't understand that guys like him will do far more harm to their rights because he doesn't believe in the rule of law or the National founding document.

If he a single ball in his sack he would have surrendered to the feds before putting his family and strangers in mortal danger, continued to pay his grazing fees and fought on in the courts. Instead he cowardly hides behind a legal doctrine that has proven to be unconstitutional and behind the women and men to stupid to see that there is no constitutional question in play.

The low hanging fruit most likely have never actually read the Constitution but rather believe Rush, Hannity, et al. that they are in grave danger of black helicopters arriving. Tighten the chin strap on the tinfoil hats because ole Cliven Bundy is about to make a name for hisself as anti government crusader and doesn't give a damn who gets killed in the process, then we can blame it all on the jack booted thugs of the BLM.

That my friends is an American tragedy of epic proportions and the wingnuts are lapping it up like milk. Sad commentary on the state of the American populace: Some too stupid to understand that they are dumb.

Nemont

 

[Big Fin]

I've really tried to follow the logic and basis for support of Bundy. I get the "David v. Goliath" image that some want to paint. I understand the frustration some have of the many complicated laws our elected leaders pass that seem way over the top. I understand the frustration that we feel when agencies are tasked with enforcing the laws these elected leaders pass, and not much progress is made in pleading one's case to this agency employee who is not in a position to change the law.

Even trying to accept all of that, I have read the cases. I have tried to see what has come of the whooping, yelling, and posturing on the issue. And it has caused me to have even less compassion for Bundy and less for the supposed militia folks who are taking his side

Some may still think Bundy has had a supposed violation of his Constitutional rights. For those feeling that way, maybe we have different versions of the United States Constitution.

I think all agree with the following.

Article 1 of the Constitution grants powers to Congress.

Article 2 of the Constitution grants powers to the Executive Office (President).

Article 3 of the Constitution grants powers to the Judiciary (US Supreme Court and lower Courts)

You can read the entire Constitution here ---> http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_States_of_America

One does not have to read too far until realizing that the Constitution is pretty clear as to the finality of the Courts, specifically the US Supreme Court, when disputes of Constitutionality arise.

No one has to like the outcome of a case, especially if we are the Plaintiff or Defendant who might lose at the lower court level. If we are so sure we have been wronged according to the rights and liberties of the US Constitution, we are allowed to appeal the case to the US Appellate Courts, and from there, petition the US Supreme Court to take our case and issue a finding.

That is the framework of the Constitution. Anyone who feels otherwise, or operates in a manner outside of those principles of the Constitution, is a counterfeit when it comes to their use of the term "Constitutionalist;" a term/tag I hear so many of these militia types using. I hear that term so often, it almost makes me laugh when I hear it from some of these people.

Most all of us are "Constitutionalists," in that we believe in that document and we live by what it provides, knowing we may not always benefit from, or agree with, the outcomes. Yet, we live with it and follow the process provided to us, making most of us "Constitutionalists."

Most those I encounter who are so quick to proclaim they are "Constitutionalists" are usually the counterfeit type. They only think it is a good Constitution when it provides an outcome that is aligned with their biases.

Given that, I have a hard time considering Cliven Bundy a "Constitutionalist," or any sort of positive term, as it relates to his actions following an adverse court decision. Society deals with property rights issues all the time. The issues are decided by the courts and the power vested in the courts by the United States Constitution. Laws are deemed constitutional, or not, by the court, not by a bunch of rogue bad ass wanna be's.

Bundy's actions, or maybe his inaction to take his case further through the system the Constitution provides, makes it hard to see him as a symbol of property rights and liberty. Rather, his failure to exercise his Constitutional rights and now ask for the world to come and rescue him from the predicament he has created, gives me just the opposite image of him and those supporting him.

Look at the court documents of Bundy's case. Mr. Bundy lost in court in 1998. He made up his own arguments based on obscure legal theory. Not only did the Federal agency (under the Executive Branch) prevail, they were issued summary judgment by the Court (under the Judicial Branch).

For those not involved in the courts, Summary Judgment means your case was so weak, your arguments were dismissed by the judge. It is the Hunt Talk equivalent of getting sized for a 3XL asshat, but with much more dire consequences.

Bundy lost again in 2012. When his facade was tossed out by the US District Court of Southern Nevada, he had the right to appeal to the 9th District Court of Appeals. He chose not to. If he had not prevailed in the Appellate Court, he could have petitioned the US Supreme Court. But, by taking his toys and going home, he gave up the rights provided him by the Constitution. No one terminated the rights afforded him, other than himself.

On two different occasions, Bundy made a conscious decision to NOT exercise his Constitutional right of appeal. Instead, he defied the ruling of the court, something a "Constitutionalist" would not do. A true "Constitutionalist" would have either abided by the decision, or appealed to the next level. And if lost at the Appellate Court level, one could petition to the US Supreme Court.

Bundy took none of the actions we are all allowed under law; appeal. Rather, he continued "squatting" on property he did not own. He refused to follow an order of the courts, for over 20 years. Hard to say he was not granted patience and tolerance beyond what you or I would have been provided.

And when he again lost in court in 2012, he again refused to follow the process that we have for differences we find in application of the law. Rather than take his case to the next level, he continued to ignore the rights millions have died to protect and provide; those rights granted by the US Constitution; his right to appeal and have his case heard at higher levels of courts.

Some are saying the judge who issued the decision in the Bundy case, Lloyd George, is an activist judge. He happens to be a conservative from Utah, a former Air Force pilot, who was appointed by President Reagan. Link here ----> http://www.nvd.uscourts.gov/bio/lloyddgeorge.aspx

Having zero use for the Sean Hannity-types; nor the Rachel Maddow or Bill Maher folks of the world, I would rather research on my own. Spoon feeding from paid entertainers who have figured out a way to get rich by feeding off the inherent trust of Americans, is a good way to get spoon fed a mouthful of horsechit.

From my research, Cliven Bundy is not a "Constitutionalist." He might be a nice guy, but from his actions and his refusal to exercise his Constitutional rights, rather deciding to pitch a big fit and try to create a private property right where none exists, I have a hard time feeling sorry for him.

And for all the militia folks who think they have saved the country; you are doing as much to endanger the future of the country as anyone. Using a threat of force by exercising the 2nd Amendment right on behalf of some guy who chooses to not exercise the rights afforded him in the Constitution, arbitrarily deciding what courts cases apply or don't apply, does more damage than good.

We have a system of laws and elections. We would be better off getting the laws changed that are supposedly so unfair. If the courts don't side with the outcome some want, then work to elect people who can change those laws the courts are ruling on.

So many want to talk about the tyranny of the majority. Well, in this case, exempting Bundy by taking advantage of the Government's desire to avoid a violent confrontation, allows the minority to go outside the bounds of what the Constitution provides for. In effect, we are seeing the tyranny of the minority.

If we dislike the Endangered Species Act, the Taylor Grazing Act, the XYZ Act, we have a system for addressing those changes. We have a Republic that allows the people to elect those in Congress to draft and enact new laws that are needed or old laws needing changed. See Articles 1, 2, and 3 of the United States Constitution. I understand the frustration when we think our side is not being represented in the process of electing people. But, that does not exempt us from what is provided under the Constitutional process.

Rather than holding Bundy accountable to use the rights afforded us under the Constitution, these militia folks, as well-intended as they maybe, ignore the rights granted and the process provided to all citizens, making a mockery of the term "Constitutionalist." Hard to consider them supporters of the Constitution, when they are advocating ignoring the rights provided to us and absolving the responsibility to exercise those rights when you feel aggrieved.

The Constitution of the United States is one of the greatest ideas to ever come from the minds of man. It has provided over 200 years of freedom and liberty, to common people, the results of which people of that time could have never imagined.

And now, we have some blowhard AM radio jocks, some self-appointed saviors in the blog-sphere, and other profiteers who are more than willing to compromise all that the Constitution provides, by promoting the idea that we ignore the Constitution and any result that doesn't suit our liking. These first class counterfeits are doing so to promote their standing in the eyes of their audience, all at the expense of steady erosion of respect for the Constitution. That these folks on either side of the political spectrum have these followings is a pretty compelling case for educational reform in this country.

Seems if one cannot live within the rights and process provided by the United States Constitution; and one fails to take advantage of the rights provided in the Constitution, rather asserting their own manufactured set of rights and legal theories, that person probably is a counterfeit Constitutionalist. Unfortunately, among the most vocal folks leading the fringe platforms on many of these "Constitutional" issues of property rights, gun control, and other chic topics, you could find plenty people qualified to be charter members of the "Counterfeit Club."

 

[shoots-straight]

Glen Beck to Bundy and his supporters.

http://thesouthwestjournal.wordpress.com/2014/04/15/glenn-becks-message-to-bundy-and-his-supporters/

 

[shoots-straight]

Another read exposing Bundy.

http://thesouthwestjournal.wordpres...g-cliven-bundys-stand-against-the-government/